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Do you worry if you are saved or not?

Do you worry if you are saved or not?

  • No, never

    Votes: 13 37.1%
  • Sometimes

    Votes: 10 28.6%
  • Often

    Votes: 4 11.4%
  • All the time

    Votes: 8 22.9%

  • Total voters
    35

Kenny'sID

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No good deeds are required in order to be saved. Good deeds, however, result from being saved. That was the apostle James' point. Our good deeds give evidence of our salvation but they do not obtain nor sustain it.

How one can read the sheep/goats passage and still not get it's very simple and straightforward truth, is absolutely uncanny. Are you just not paying attention, or has something else got such a hold on you, you can't see it?

Let's try this, tell me what the passage means to you...this way I can at least be sure you read it. :)

Matthew 25:31-46
 
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Kenny'sID

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My Response: what...???

Doubt is good, doubt makes us take care of the sin that is causing the doubt so we have no more doubt about that.

At any rate, can you please show us the scripture that says we shouldn't doubt our salvation?

My Response:
James 1:6

“But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.” KJV


Matthew 21:21
Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

My response... What? ;) I see you are on a completely different page than doubt of salvation. Faith is a completely different subject. Just because the word doubt is in that verse, doesn't mean it pertains to doubt of salvation.
 
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2Timothy2:15

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Right after Peter got the holy ghost he went out and performed a miracle becuase he knew.

So do yo believe that Peter was not saved until the day of Pentacost? You do not believe he was saved when he denied Jesus three times? Just curious how you view that.
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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Doubt is good, doubt makes us take care of the sin that is causing the doubt so we have no more doubt about that.






My response... What? ;) I see you are on a completely different page than doubt of salvation. Faith is a completely different subject. Just because the word doubt is in that verse, doesn't mean it pertains to doubt of salvation.



You only read the bible verses.... read my explanation too


Very familiar verses the top one more so for myself I guess, one of the first I memorized after receiving the holy ghost. Now sure these aren't specifically referring to salvation but in order for you to ask for something or speak something without doubt logically you can't question if you're saved or not.

I can't cast out a demon if I am not even sure i'm not a sinner myself and the bible says thou that committeth sin is of teh devil after all. Which is why we can't doubt salvation... In order for you to do anything in the kingdom of God you have to be sure you are saved becuase only saved individuals can save others. Demons will only flee from sure/saved/confident individuals. Not people who doubt having the holy ghost and simply don't have it.





For instance, there are lists of things we should not do throughout the Bible, or we won't see the Kingdom of God, so if we are doing one or more of those things, you are saying we still should not doubt our salvation? Or should we doubt it, then fix it, and do away with that particular doubt, and keep doing that for the rest of our life to keep ourselves on that straight and narrow we read so much about?

My Response: I guess my question for you is how do you define salvation. Because based off this question you define it based off works essentially. I could be wrong but yeah.



Now look there is a differences between daily seeking to maintain salvation to ensure you don't lose the holy ghost vs. not sure if you have it. And I feel this needs clarification.
 
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2Timothy2:15

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I was saved 7 years ago and I didn't speak in tounges... The holy Spirit can make you speak in tounges, yes, but you can also speak in tounges without the holy Spirit.

What I'm saying is that bibel doesn't say that you can't be saved just because you have doubts about your salvation.


I think a lot of times people confuse doubt with a healthy fear of GOD. The bible says fear of God is the beginning of wisdom :)
 
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aiki

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How one can read the sheep/goats passage and still not get it's very simple and straightforward truth, is absolutely uncanny. Are you just not paying attention, or has something else got such a hold on you, you can't see it?

Let's try this, tell me what the passage means to you...this way I can at least be sure you read it. :)

Matthew 25:31-46

This is a...strange response to all that I wrote. Strange because it focuses rather narrowly on a relatively insignificant point. The passage from Matthew 25 does not teach a saved-and-lost doctrine. Jesus explains nothing more than what the apostle James observed: genuine salvation results in corresponding behavior. If I am really saved, my conduct will reveal that I am. Jesus is not, however, indicating that good works obtain one's salvation. All he's saying essentially is "the proof is in the pudding."

Selah.
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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Man this
So do yo believe that Peter was not saved until the day of Pentacost? You do not believe he was saved when he denied Jesus three times? Just curious how you view that.


This is a question I never thought of.


Now the apostles had a huge change after they got the holy ghost and they were even called christians at aninoch after they went through this change and seemed God like in nature.

To answer your question I would say no, and that's simply becuase they were alive at a interesting time.

They were alive when Jesus walked the Earth and people were saved by accepting him and following him, but they also lived into the final method of salvation the infilling of the holy ghost.


The 2 who died on teh cross were able to simply accept JESUS and be fine becuase JESUS is God so he can just say saved and yeah, and secondly JESUS was still alive the next period wasn't here yet.



Lastly JESUS told them they needed to receive this power from on high(holy ghost) so if they disobeyed God then yeah hell most likely.

This last reasoning I just made is probably the best one to go by (if you agree). Jesus told them they needed this. What they faced after pentecost.....man not sure how you could face that without a comforter. Peter would have most likely would have denounced christ forever rather then hang upside down other wise.

Because of these things I can say they weren't saved before, sure they were utilized and walking with God but they still fell in the end Peter denied him and even cursed God in a sense, the others ran off. Sure we all make mistakes but once your are saved denouncing christ like that isn't something you do.




In the end though this is what I believe, you don't have to agree or anything but just my take since you asked. God bless man
 
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aiki

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My response: I simply said based off acts 2 it's a sign of getting the holy ghost.

But does Acts 2 indicate anywhere that tongues is a necessary sign of the indwelling Holy Spirit? Not as far as I can tell...

There is a reason Paul speaks against Earth tounques, to suggest that because it's easy to do something wrongly that it's not true is eh.

Sorry, you lost me here...

The devil works like that, he is antichrist he tends to use gods methods but in a evil way.

Right. So, how do you tell the difference between the two? How can you test and find out if its the devil faking you out or the real thing from God?

Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Are you aware that these verses are generally regarded as part of an illegitimate later addition to the biblical text? Some of the most eminent Bible scholars of our time have found verses 9-20 not to be part of the original text of Mark 16. Here's what the top-notch Bible scholar Bruce Metzger says:

"The last twelve verses of the commonly received text of Mark are absent from the two oldest Greek manuscripts (א and B), from the Old Latin codex Bobiensis (it k), the Sinaitic Syriac manuscript, about one hundred Armenian manuscripts, and the two oldest Georgian manuscripts (written A.D. 897 and A.D. 913). Clement of Alexandria and Origen show no knowledge of the existence of these verses; furthermore Eusebius and Jerome attest that the passage was absent from almost all Greek copies of Mark known to them. The original form of the Eusebian sections (drawn up by Ammonius) makes no provision for numbering sections of the text after 16:8. Not a few manuscripts which contain the passage have scribal notes stating that older Greek copies lack it, and in other witnesses the passage is marked with asterisks or obeli, the conventional signs used by copyists to indicate a spurious addition to a document."

I wouldn't, then, use these verses as support for your view on tongues.

Selah.
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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But does Acts 2 indicate anywhere that tongues is a necessary sign of the indwelling Holy Spirit? Not as far as I can tell...



Sorry, you lost me here...



Right. So, how do you tell the difference between the two? How can you test and find out if its the devil faking you out or the real thing from God?

Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Are you aware that these verses are generally regarded as part of an illegitimate later addition to the biblical text? Some of the most eminent Bible scholars of our time have found verses 9-20 not to be part of the original text of Mark 16. Here's what the top-notch Bible scholar Bruce Metzger says:

"The last twelve verses of the commonly received text of Mark are absent from the two oldest Greek manuscripts (א and B), from the Old Latin codex Bobiensis (it k), the Sinaitic Syriac manuscript, about one hundred Armenian manuscripts, and the two oldest Georgian manuscripts (written A.D. 897 and A.D. 913). Clement of Alexandria and Origen show no knowledge of the existence of these verses; furthermore Eusebius and Jerome attest that the passage was absent from almost all Greek copies of Mark known to them. The original form of the Eusebian sections (drawn up by Ammonius) makes no provision for numbering sections of the text after 16:8. Not a few manuscripts which contain the passage have scribal notes stating that older Greek copies lack it, and in other witnesses the passage is marked with asterisks or obeli, the conventional signs used by copyists to indicate a spurious addition to a document."

I wouldn't, then, use these verses as support for your view on tongues.

Selah.



Sorry, you lost me here...

My Response: YOu said a lot and have responded to a ton of post on here as well, so I can't blame you for forgetting the argument I was responding to here. It wasn't an important one though so lets move on.




Right. So, how do you tell the difference between the two? How can you test and find out if its the devil faking you out or the real thing from God?

My Response: Easy the trigger word. Whenever I say hallelujah for example I tend to go into my unknown tounque. For some they say JESUS and they start. (this doesn't apply for all though, some don't speak in tounques as often as others and vice versa) (some like myself tend to do this often).




Trust me coming from a guy who has a pastor who has cast out demons in church and is an expert in that area... the devil tends to flee or respond in a way when you utilize the name JESUS. Sure the devil is the antichrist but you have to remember he's not the equal of christ. The bible says at that name every knee must bow, that is in heaven, on Earth, and below the Earth.


Additionally when a demon possessed speaks in a tounque it's not a on and off thing, it only happens if someone calls out the demon. Demons get stirred up when they are called out. That's another way to tell the difference.



I wouldn't, then, use these verses as support for your view on tongues.


My Response: There is also evidence suggesting the bible itself isn't accurate and half of it isn't reliable. Some scholars suggest Noah's Ark didn't happen either and many events in the bible never happened.

We can't believe everything historians and such think is my point. I would also like to simply point out that I bet you that scholar simply didn't believe in acts 2 and looked for a reason to push that aside.

I mean Thomas Jefferson did this stuff as well with his Jefferson bible, just take out stuff you don't like by justifying doing so to the public in some way. Maybe utilize the reliable argument that actually convinces many not to believe the bible, that a lot of it supposedly has been tampered with (it has to a degree though prob), and use this to justify not following certain portions.


The devil has good devices gotta give him that, he chose a portion of the bible that gives us power over him to be "proven" illegitimate. I mean the verse straight up says cast out devils in JESUS name, I see why he used the scholar prob to try and lower its legitimacy.
 
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DoubtfulSalvation

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All the time. Every one interprets salvation in a different way and to be honest I can completely understand why. From my perspective the Bible is sometimes extremely clear on salvation and other times extremely vague. Check out my name for crying out loud. Pretty sure Yahboy is sending me down below.
 
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Mountainmanbob

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Funny, actually I have heard the opposite, that people that are worried about this, often are the people that have least reason to worry. :)

Kind of the same. Often thought that an unsaved one would never even give it a thought although Jesus did tell some that he never knew them.

Faith comes by hearing of the Word.
Keep that desire strong.

M-Bob
 
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Anguspure

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Do you worry, or are you sure you are saved?
Not worried about being saved as long as I am in righteous relationship to my Father, thanks to and through Christ Jesus alone.

The relationship I have to my Father is, however, a daily concern to be worked out along the way lead by His Spirit.

I'm not so good at following and often loose the sound of His voice because of my own preoccupations, so I hope that He can keep me from stumbling off the path.
 
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seeking.IAM

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Not worried about being saved as long as I am in righteous relationship to my Father, thanks to and through Christ Jesus alone...

I tend to agree with this. I think one can worry too much about salvation. I think salvation is the reward for having achieved a goal, but it is not the goal itself. The goal is being a faithful and obedient follower of Christ and The Way. The goal is to live a righteous Christian life, to worship and honor the Lord Our God, to obey the commandments, to love the Lord Our God and love our neighbors as ourselves, to be an obedient disciple. If we do these things, we need not waste one minute worrying about salvation.

I think it is also possible to worry too little about salvation. Worrying too little is to hold salvation in no regard at all. A little anxiety can be motivating and a good thing, but only to the degree that it reminds us to pay attention to leading a Christian life. That is the goal, salvation is but the reward, albeit a pretty good one at that.
 
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aiki

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YOu said a lot and have responded to a ton of post on here as well, so I can't blame you for forgetting the argument I was responding to here. It wasn't an important one though so lets move on.

It wasn't that I had forgotten what you had written but that I couldn't understand what you had written. The sentence from you that I quoted just didn't make much sense.

Easy the trigger word. Whenever I say hallelujah for example I tend to go into my unknown tounque. For some they say JESUS and they start. (this doesn't apply for all though, some don't speak in tounques as often as others and vice versa) (some like myself tend to do this often).

Is any of this biblical? Do you have any teaching in Scripture anywhere that says, "Use a trigger word to determine if your tongues are a demonic fake"? I don't know of any...You might want to consider the following passage:

Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'


Jesus says here that many will use his name in association with wonders they perform but he will deny knowing them as his own and will cast them out from his presence at the Final Judgment. It seems pretty clear here that just using Jesus's name does not guarantee that what you are doing is of him. Even if you do wonders in his name, you can be totally separate from him and on your way to hell. So, your "trigger word" idea doesn't seem very biblical to me...

Trust me coming from a guy who has a pastor who has cast out demons in church and is an expert in that area... the devil tends to flee or respond in a way when you utilize the name JESUS.

But as I just showed, using Jesus's name doesn't guarantee you are acting in his will or are even one of his.

Sure the devil is the antichrist but you have to remember he's not the equal of christ. The bible says at that name every knee must bow, that is in heaven, on Earth, and below the Earth.

Actually, the verse you're thinking of from Philippians 2 doesn't say every knee must bow but rather every knee should or will bow. When? Well, at the Final Judgment, for sure. Prior to that time, however, only some bow their knee to Christ.

Acts 19:13-16
13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, "We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches."
14 Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, "Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?"
16 Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.


Here's an example of the very opposite of what you claim to be true. Even though the Jews were attempting an exorcism in the name of Jesus they failed and were attacked and injured by the demon they were trying to cast out. Jesus's name is not some magic spell, then, that just anyone can use to exert authority over the demonic.

There is also evidence suggesting the bible itself isn't accurate and half of it isn't reliable. Some scholars suggest Noah's Ark didn't happen either and many events in the bible never happened.

The Bible scholar I quoted isn't one of them. Dr. Metzger is, however, among the majority of Bible scholars who look at the evidence and see that the last twelve verses of Mark 16 are later and illegitimate additions to the text. Metzger isn't just following some bias he has against the Bible in this matter but is reacting to the evidence that clearly shows the verses you quoted as spurious. So lumping Dr. Metzger in with every skeptic who dismisses the Bible shows you don't know who Dr. Metzger is and that you aren't really thinking carefully about how you arrive at your conclusions about Scripture.

We can't believe everything historians and such think is my point.

Well, unless you've got good reason to doubt those historians, you ought to consider what they are saying about history. Simply dismissing the evidence because "some historians may not be completely trustworthy" is intellectually lazy. If you want to be "rightly dividing the word of Truth," you must look at the textual evidence for and against Mark 16:9-20 and accept it only if you can prove it isn't in error. Can you? Do you have proof that what Dr. Metzger has said about the textual evidence for the last twelve verses in Mark 16 is false? Have you looked at the manuscripts? Have you studied out what the reasons for rejecting these verses actually are? If not, you aren't in any position to deny the claims of someone like Dr. Metzger who has.

I would also like to simply point out that I bet you that scholar simply didn't believe in acts 2 and looked for a reason to push that aside.

Instead of betting, why don't you do some research on Dr. Metzger and find out where he's coming from as a Bible scholar? Unfounded speculation is a fast road to being deceived.

I mean Thomas Jefferson did this stuff as well with his Jefferson bible, just take out stuff you don't like by justifying doing so to the public in some way.

Maybe Jefferson did. But this doesn't prove anything about Dr. Metzger and his motives for rejecting Mark 16:9-20. Metzger isn't Thomas Jefferson.

Maybe utilize the reliable argument that actually convinces many not to believe the bible, that a lot of it supposedly has been tampered with (it has to a degree though prob), and use this to justify not following certain portions.

This isn't what Metzger has done. He doesn't suggest the entire Bible is under suspicion. The way you're trying to dismiss his research here is pretty careless and lazy.

The devil has good devices gotta give him that, he chose a portion of the bible that gives us power over him to be "proven" illegitimate.

The devil has nothing to do with it. The textual evidence is what it is. And the passage in Mark 16 doesn't give us power over anything. It is God through Christ who has given us the victory over the World, the Flesh and the devil.

I mean the verse straight up says cast out devils in JESUS name, I see why he used the scholar prob to try and lower its legitimacy.

You've talked yourself into a point of view here for which you have no evidence. Ignoring the textual evidence Dr. Metzger cites, you simply assume the devil is at work creating a false "scholar problem." Again, this is very lazy thinking that will lead you straight into being deceived. I would urge you to be like the "noble Bereans" who studied out everything they were told by the apostles to "see if these things were so." (Acts 17:10, 11)

Selah.
 
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Virgil the Roman

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I know what salvation and what the way is; but I'll only claim that I've been 'saved', whenever I am 100% saved from every being able to fall into sin or under the Devil's snare: that is, in Heaven. Until then, I'll be concerned about my relationship with Christ and not commit the sin of presumption. I've confidence that God will give me the grace of a Holy and Happy death and being able to be truly contrite and penitent; however, I shall never claim to be 'saved' this side of Heaven. I've not been 'saved' from the peril of sin and the pitfall of Hell.
 
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aiki

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All the time. Every one interprets salvation in a different way and to be honest I can completely understand why. From my perspective the Bible is sometimes extremely clear on salvation and other times extremely vague.

I don't find this to be the case at all. The vague or unclear passages on salvation are qualified and clarified by those that are more specific, detailed and clear. The matter of salvation in the Bible is as plain as I could want it to be.

Selah.
 
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2Timothy2:15

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Man this



This is a question I never thought of.


Now the apostles had a huge change after they got the holy ghost and they were even called christians at aninoch after they went through this change and seemed God like in nature.

To answer your question I would say no, and that's simply becuase they were alive at a interesting time.

They were alive when Jesus walked the Earth and people were saved by accepting him and following him, but they also lived into the final method of salvation the infilling of the holy ghost.


The 2 who died on teh cross were able to simply accept JESUS and be fine becuase JESUS is God so he can just say saved and yeah, and secondly JESUS was still alive the next period wasn't here yet.



Lastly JESUS told them they needed to receive this power from on high(holy ghost) so if they disobeyed God then yeah hell most likely.

This last reasoning I just made is probably the best one to go by (if you agree). Jesus told them they needed this. What they faced after pentecost.....man not sure how you could face that without a comforter. Peter would have most likely would have denounced christ forever rather then hang upside down other wise.

Because of these things I can say they weren't saved before, sure they were utilized and walking with God but they still fell in the end Peter denied him and even cursed God in a sense, the others ran off. Sure we all make mistakes but once your are saved denouncing christ like that isn't something you do.




In the end though this is what I believe, you don't have to agree or anything but just my take since you asked. God bless man


So no one who heard the gospel and believed before Pentacost was saved? That is not what the bible says.

John 10:40And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode. 41And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true. 42And many believed on him there.

And then they actually received the Holy Spirit before pentacost and before anyone spoke in tongues.

John 20:22

And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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So no one who heard the gospel and believed before Pentacost was saved? That is not what the bible says.

John 10:40And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode. 41And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true. 42And many believed on him there.

And then they actually received the Holy Spirit before pentacost and before anyone spoke in tongues.

John 20:22

And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:



I never said no one before pentecost got saved utilizing the previous method JEsus had to offer before the massive outpouring of the holy ghost. YOu simply read waht I stated wrong.


Additionally of course people like Silas were led by the holy spirit before I never said that. But what I clealry stated that getting the holy spirit wasn't a requirement before, some were simply led by God before. Getting the holy ghost didn't become a mandate essentially until really in the book of acts.
 
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2Timothy2:15

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I never said no one before pentecost got saved utilizing the previous method JEsus had to offer before the massive outpouring of the holy ghost. YOu simply read waht I stated wrong.


Additionally of course people like Silas were led by the holy spirit before I never said that. But what I clealry stated that getting the holy spirit wasn't a requirement before, some were simply led by God before. Getting the holy ghost didn't become a mandate essentially until really in the book of acts.


I was asking about before pentacost to get clarification not assuming anything that is why there was a (?) mark.

Clearly the bible says the disciples received the Holy Spirit before Pentacost and they did not speak in tongues at that time at all. I think it was you who said that tongues were required as proof of salvation. If it wasn't you then someone else said it and I think this is worth discussing.

I am only posing these questions for discussion not an attack.
 
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