The early church was not something that I learned about growing up in my religious background; in Catholicism class was a matter of learning correct Catholic doctrine and Canon Law and in my Protestant background there was really no historical approach at all, not even with regard to the Reformation. I think that it is in a small way where the anti-intellectualism shows itself. Most of the Wesleyan Pentecostals didn't know even their own church's history. I will need to take some time after the new year and read up on some of the basics of the early church but its a very unfamiliar area for me.
Makes sense. I can definitely understand how a lack of history
I've shared before on my m
other growing up Catholic in Latin America (Panama) and how she went to Catholic schools just as I did - and ou
r experiences were radically different than many Catholics I ran into who simply were taught doctrine instead of vibrancy in their relationship with Christ, although she and I were different in the fact that she experienced the Charismatic movement while in Catholicism and my Catholic school (called St. Gabriel) was in a lower-income community. Got reminded recently of the elementary school I grew up in called
"St. Gabriel's Catholic School" with those radical nuns in impoverished neighborhoods when my mom was still single/going to medical school and placing me in Catholic School like she grew up in when she lived in Panama - even while we were going to a Charismatic/Word of Faith Church (
Welcome to Greenville Community Christian Church | Greenville, NC ). For me, in Catholic Schools or with my aunts/uncles who were Catholic, we didn't focus on Catholic Doctrine as an end in/of itself. We focused on relationships with others and knowing how to be a neighbor to others - the most intellectual thing we could do being love for others.
Catholicism was very much ALIVE for me as a kid and growing older and the testament of radical nuns was not a rare thing.
I do remember reading your post about your background, it was a very illuminating read. Thanks for sharing.
Not a problem..
I still have a pretty negative kneejerk reaction to that type of Protestantism I was exposed to in high school.
Understandable...
To be sure, there were lots of great folks apart of those churches but it simply didn't sit well with me. It constructed the narrative in my mind that I was not a good fit for Christianity because I thought "hey these guys are so Nationalistic and anti-Science and anti-Intellectual they don't even know the history of the Bible or the Christian history or even the reformer's history". It made it hard to take it all very seriously. There's still a tinge of that which is hard to get rid of in adulthood especially with regard to what is playing out in the political world and on social media, which makes it a thousand times more amplified.
I tend to say, despite any negative sentiments I have to places in my past, that it doesn't matter what others are doing in the negative when you're trying to find the positive or correct application of something and live that out. People go for the fake when they don't know what the real is all about. With the current political world and seeing what many (Specifically on the Religious Right) gave a pass to while other Evangelicals and others in Christendom consistently kept calling out and saying "Quit excusing the same kind of behaviors you condemned in other leaders when they weren't with your party" or they noted how trying to give a pass toward racism/bigotry in those openly speaking out while saying they are "Christians" (false) ....I have been at war many times with others. Telling my friends who are not Christians that I am sorry for the poor representation of others in the name of Christ/God and telling those doing the negative actions that they don't represent Christ in trying to push an agenda of white nationalism. But that's another discussion.
The early church [including the Divine Council idea] was not something that I learned about growing up in my religious background; in Catholicism class was a matter of learning correct Catholic doctrine and Canon Law and in my Protestant background there was really no historical approach at all, not even with regard to the Reformation. I think that it is in a small way where the anti-intellectualism shows itself. Most of the Wesleyan Pentecostals didn't know even their own church's history. I will need to take some time after the new year and read up on some of the basics of the early church but its a very unfamiliar area for me.
Lacking a historical approach does lead to a lot of issues - and of course, I'd encourage you to look into the history of the Early Church....as much as you can.
That said, I'd also say that anti-intellectualism can also be seen when people claim to have intellectual discussion on Christ or the Supernatural and yet they ignore the fact that the supernatural is also an issue of factual conversation. Many worldviews of materialism and naturalism can slip into conversation in the name of being 'historical' when the reality is that limiting things to what we can explain practically is also limiting. It's one of the reasons I really enjoyed films like Dr. Strange....
And I am glad for others like Dr. Heisner speaking on that issue in-depth:
If you would like to chat on FB I am not opposed to that; I could send you my information in a PM. Or we could use CF's messaging system too. Whatever you prefer.
Hit me up via PM and I'll get back with you A.S.A.P
I will add this book to my (dangerously long) Amazon wishlist. Thanks for the recommendation. It might clear up some misgivings I have about Christianity as a "tool of cultural indoctrination" as especially seen in American and European colonial policy.
It's definitely worth investigating
Makes sense. I think this would be a great topic for private discussion because I think it would be pretty off topic from the thread.
Not a problem. I may make a thread about it in the future....
This is a fantastic point and expresses a thought that I've had in my head for more years than I can count but I can finally put it into words: because church was always presented as a chore (even parents admitted it felt like a chore) I always saw church as a boring thing that adults did. This thought continued out of Catholicism and into Protestantism where they were very picky about cosmology and anything that didn't sound like "American Christianity" which was a radically simplified system. I know it sounds superficial but felt so
boring to think of the universe that way. That such an omnipotent being would reduce everything to such simplicity didn't make any sense to me. I could very well see such portrayals as you describe (DBZ, spirit wars etc) as happening in the Christian cosmology. That always felt right to me, but I kept it to myself because I was afraid that I would be written off as a weirdo heretic. Fascinating.
Part of this is what first attracted me to the occult of which Judaism and Christianity have contributed a great rich history to. I think specific of the
Lesser Key of Solomon and the
Goetia which describe a meticulous hierarchy of angels and demons that can be recognized in ritual. It is these kind of ideas coupled with the imagery of the figurative writing of the
Divine Comedy which sort of tied a more complete picture of Christian cosmology together for me. Coupling that with the idea of spirit worlds and power levels and all manners of power and magic it seemed to click a lot for me and honestly it helped me frame Christ as superior to it all. Growing up that was incredibly empowering to my faith.
Unfortunately it unraveled when most other Christians outright rejected the idea except my best friend (to this day) so that's another reason I am so interested in seeing your thoughts on these ideas, I feel they are fundamentally related to my view of the metaphysical world.
I don't think there's anything wrong with noting that the universe seen in boring terms is not acceptable. ...especially when we're told to be fascinated by it.
That said, I know that there were and have been many things which friends have gone into when seeking the Occult and then they realized later on there was no need to because they had a BIBLICAL exposure to real Christianity (which addresses the supernatural and empowers other). Going to the Occult is something that also did a lot of damage when seeing what one opens themselves up to spiritually and I've seen it for myself. One of my good friends used to be involved in the Occult/Satanism (as a priest) and coming out of it when he saw the reality of Christ was very significant...because he was not going to be a part of something that truly was not authentic or real for Him. His investigation into who Christ was made a world of difference - especially seeing the actual life of Christ and the miracles he did and the Supernatural world that early believers lived in, including addressing the power of the Occult.
I believe I've mentioned this before when it comes to Christians who did not take the supernatural lightly - St. Patrick being one of them. If you recall, some of this was brought up before in discussion between us when it came to how Christianity developed:
I've generally had an affinity towards most Animistic spirituality (which I realize is hardly exclusive to Asia) for a long time now. I'm not sure what draws me to it, I think the lack of a rigid structure and restrictive rules maybe but it is pretty central to certain cultures and isn't wide open.
Gxg (G²);64984435 said:
For myself, when seeing the Animistic spirituality aspect, I couldn't help but be reminded on Christianity and the ways others for it have addressed.....for m
any are not aware of the ways that Christ addresses Folk Religions..
And in the event you've not heard of it,
Christian Animism is something many have noted over the years more and more.... as seen in
Defining an Animistic Worldview : The Missiology Homepage and
Animism: The Default Religion of the World - Missions Mandate and
Animism: - International Journal of Frontier Missions
Read a really amazing book on the issue recently called "Along the Silk Road" as it concerns the Silk Road - and it was amazing seeing the different religions that came together/interacted, as well as how they developed - from animism to theism. From Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan to Tajikistan ...to Kashgar, China, to Istanbul, Turkey and so many others pertaining to the peoples of Central Asia and their rich cultures. ...and religious experiences...
...... there always seems to be a lot of interaction with Animism, Secularism and Theism ......Animistic salvation is utilitarian, selfish, human-directed, and this-worldly....for an animist is chiefly concerned with self as he he seeks power to fulfill his own earthly needs... but conversely, Christian salvation is a response to grace, altruistic and self-giving, God-focused, and includes the immediate as well as the eternal. For a Christian, unlike the earthly focused animist, seeks to fulfill the purposes of God.
Having to do a
research project on St. Patrick, I was recently amazed at the ways he went about handling it. For Christianity had a toe-hold in Ireland before Patrick, but the religion in Ireland before Patrick was animism IN ADDITION to belief in superstition, omens, soothsaying, magic, curses and the power of sacred places.
Like the people in Korra's universe when it came to the spirits, the Irish also believed many unpredictable supernatural forces including shape shifting hidden dangers. Patrick too believed in supernatural force but all coming from a good and loving God. At one point, Patrick made his way to the Hill of Tara, Co. Meath, seat of the high king of Ireland. Arriving on the eve of Easter, he lit a paschal fire on the nearby Hill of Slane. At this time of year, it was pagan practice to put out all fires before a new one was lit at Tara. When the druids at Tara saw the light from Slane, they warned King Laoghaire that he must extinguish it or it would burn forever...but. Patrick was summoned to Tara, and on the way he and his followers chanted the hymn known as "The Lorica" or "Saint Patrick's Breastplate".
Although Laoghaire remained a pagan, he was so impressed by the saint that he gave him permission to make converts throughout his realm. Muirchu's Life of Patrick, written two centuries later, describes a contest of magic in which Laoghaire's druids had to concede victory to the saint. And later Patrick travelled widely in Ireland, making converts and establishing new churches, though he eventually made his headquarters at Armagh.
There's a lot that can be seen with the vibrant gospel witness of Celtic Christians. With St. Patrick, his evangelizing the pagans of Ireland has much to be commended for our day since they lived in Christian community while living in close proximity to those who worshipped many gods. By voice of their preaching and example of gospel living together in good works, Celtic Christianity spread rapidly over Ireland. Their faith was alive to creation with God the Trinity as the great creator. Their theology was very practical and suited to a simple farming people and they did not deal in some of the abstract theologizing that lead to debate throughout the empire. They were faithful to the truth but contextualized it for the agrarian Celts whose historical ties were deep with creation. This is seen powerfully in the Irish prayer known as Saint Patricks Breastplate (mentioned earlier) dating to perhaps a century or so after Patrick. Though the form that survives most likely is not from the pen of Patrick, yet it certainly encapsulates the Christian faith he established amongst this once barbarous people. It is a
prayer dancing with both God and the natural world and ends with a phrase familiar to many who have heard of Patrick.
Christ with me, Christ before me, Christ behind me, Christ in me, Christ below me, Christ above me, Christ to the right of me, Christ to the left of me, Christ where I lie, Christ where I sit, Christ where I stand, Christ in the heart of everyone who thinks of me, Christ in the mouth of everyone who speaks of me, Christ in every eye which sees me, Christ in every ear which hears me.
More can be found in the book entitled
"How the Irish Saved Civilization " by Thomas Cahill ...excellent study
As he noted:
The difference between Patricks magic and the magic of the druids is that in Patricks world all beings and events come from the hand of a good God, who loves human beings and wishes them success.....
This magical world, though full of adventure and surprise, is no longer full of dread. Rather, Christ has trodden all pathways before us, and at every crossroads and by every tree the Word of God speaks out. We have only to be quiet and listen, as Patrick learned to do during the silence of his novitiate as a shepherd on the slopes of Sliabh Mis. | This sense of the world as holy, as the Book of God as a healing mystery, fraught with divine messages could never have risen out of Greco-Roman civilization, threaded with the profound pessimism of the ancients and their Platonic suspicion of the body as unholy and the world as devoid of meaning....
It seems that as some point in the development of every culture, human sacrifice becomes unthinkable, and animals are from then on substituted for human victims
At all events, the Irish had not reached this point and were still sacrificing human beings to their gods when Patrick began his mission
Patrick declared that such sacrifices were no longer needed. Christ has died once for all
Yes, the Irish would have said, here is a story that answers our deepest needs and answers them in a way so good that we could never even have dared dream of it. We can put away our knives and abandon our altars. These are no longer required. The God of the Three Faces has given us his own Son, and we are washed clean in the blood of this lamb. God does not hate us; he loves us. Greater love than this no man has than that he should lay down his life for his friends. That is what Gods Word, made flesh, did for us. From now on, we are all sacrifices but without the shedding of blood. It is our lives, not our deaths that this God wants. But we are to be sacrifices, for Paul adds to the hymn this advice to all: Let this [same] mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus. .
As many of my friends formerly involved in the Occult note, we don't disbelieve magic and forms of mysticism to control are real. We just don't see the need to be involved in it when we have the power of the person/reality of Christ
It makes things like magic very redundant and it's a lot less risky when seeing how many times other things have opened up which can do a lot of damage.
If I had to bring a movie analogy for it, I am reminded of Pirates of the Caribbean. Seeing others come out of things like Voodoo in the West Indies, there are some things I simply will not play with even when I note that they are real and there are forms of power in it.
But within the Pirates series, I especially enjoyed the new character known as The
Spaniard ---the agent sent by Spain to destory the fountain of youth since they felt only God should have the power to give eternal life (and only He can do it flawlessly). This dude was the best sailor/privateer in the entire "Pirates of the Caribbean" series. Because the man made plain people look to myths (even if they have power) for what God can bring/do for certain.
That said, some things like hierarchy of angels were already present in historical Christianity (i.e. Raphael, Gabriel, Michael, etc.) - for anyone familiar with the study of angelolgy. The same goes for what has happened with practices used to drive out demons and sacred items (or
Holy /Consecrated Items). There were other innovations that got brought up, one of them being Solomon's Ring - more shared in-depth in places like
What do Orthodox say about Solomon's Ring? - We know about Solomon's ring from the Talmud, which is a collection of rabbinic and pharisaic commentaries from the 6th century and earlier and at one point it describes Solomon using a ring, with God's name written on it, to control demons. (eg. in tractate Gittin 68). There are also works describing Solomon and his control over demons such as the Testament of Solomom, probably written in the 1st-4th centuries AD...and of course, books in the Apocrapgya such as the Wisdom of Solomon 7:17-21 ( Wisdom of Solomon ) notes Solomon in his wisdom on differing things, including spirits.
What you said reminded me of something I remember discussing with my friend once before when he said he was investigating the world of the Occult (although we both grew up as Christians in the Evangelical Church we were a part of) - based on things he had read on what Solomon was doing - and he made reference to the Testament of Solomon as basis for his actions and I ended up having to share with him that just because Solomon did certain things doesn't mean it was appropriate or the best to do at all. Of course, knowing what was discussed before is also a big deal when seeing how the issue of the occult was not a matter that the Early Church was unaware of.
For reference, I'd suggest the following:
With my friend when I was discussing with him why he was so interested in the occult/SOLOMOM, I noted how it's possible that one can be a prophet of God and yet be corrupt at the same time. ...AND Solomon wasn't the first.
Balaam was a prophet who the Lord spoke to ..and as a prophet, he often would be able to do things others would not even though not fully approved of by the Lord.
2 Peter 2:15
They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer, who loved the wages of wickedness.
Jude 1:11
Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaams error; they have been destroyed in Korahs rebellion.
More specifically, the Way of Balaam is one of someone who wants to get paid at any costs even when the Lord says no.....as he cursed the Israelites/was denied in doing so at the Word of the Lord (as he was a rouge prophet)---and when Baalam couldn't curse them via God, he taught King Balak (who offered A LOT of money) to seduce the Israelites through sexual immorality so that they'd open themselves up to being cursed. As suggested elsewhere, there's an excellent sermon on the issue (if choosing to right click
here ) on Jude that really helps to explain things
On corruption with prophet ability, one can Consider
Numbers 15:31:
Because he has despised the word of the LORD and has broken his commandment, that person shall be utterly cut off; his iniquity shall be on him.
Here despising the word of Yahweh is equivalent to breaking the commandment that was given to the people of Israel. Again, we read in
Numbers 24:12-14:
12And Balaam said to Balak, "Did I not tell your messengers whom you sent to me, 13 'If Balak should give me his house full of silver and gold, I would not be able to go beyond the word of the LORD, to do either good or bad of my own will. What the LORD speaks, that will I speak'?"
Balaam himself was able to make legitimate prophetic declarations that would greatly impact people, yet in many ways he was a renegade and one who pimped his gift/sold himself out for profit ($$$$$)....and although gifted by the Lord, his abilities became tainted. Balaam appears elsewhere in the Bible, painted in the darkest colors. He was killed later (
Numbers 31:7-9 )...and just after Balaams story in Numbers comes that of the Midianite women who seduced the men of Israel to idolatry. Jewish tradition saw the shadowy hand of Balaam behind this (as
Numbers 31:15-17/Numbers 31 /
Revelation 2:13-15 note how he wanted to get paid and found a "wrap around" plan to seduce the Israelites/open them up to being cursed where he couldn't pronounce a curse on them).
Balaam found ways to do supernatural actions and yet it was essentially a part of the "Black Market" when it comes to the supernatural world - and with magic/witchcraft, you don't know WHO you're running into or what demons you'll encounter that are teaching illegitimate ways of experiecing what can be found in God alone.
It's the same with King Solomon, as just because Solomon did certain things doesn't mean it was appropriate or the best to do. Solomon himself did the same in I Kings 11 when he brought in extensive amounts of gods/goddesses and their arts into the heart of Israel, setting the stage for an extensive apostasy and allowing himself to turn away from the Lord....something that angered the Lord even though Solomon was good with it in his quest for knowledge ( Ecclessiastes 2). As I said elsewhere on the issue before:
Whether or not Holy people have done certain things doesn't necessarily equate to the thing done being Holy in the ultimate sense - and that is what was being said in the earlier response. For it is plain that Solomon did certain actions that are noted
in earlier works from antiquity that
the saints were familiar with (specifically, the Old Testament pseudepigrapha) - but one must be careful of developing fascination with them as if it was the Lord's will for believers to be involved in such actions.
Even with possession of Holy Objects, when in idolatry, there was a dynamic that happened in scripture where the Lord noted others ended up placing themselves in danger thinking the object alone was what helped them when their idolatry itself ended up ruining them...and making even good objects of no effect. In Numbers 21:8-10 /
Numbers 21 , THE SAME staff that was told to the people by the Lord to be built had become something that was needing to be destroyed by the time of Hezekiah since people in his day began to worship it, as seen in
2 Kings 18:3-5 /
2 Kings 18 , yet the Lord references Himself in it in John 3 when discussing all looking unto Him, as they were commanded to do with the bronze serpent, were to be saved.
And with objects, although they can have Biblical purpose, they can be corrupted.
To be clear, I am NOT saying Solomon's Ring ever was proven to be an object of the Lord that was to be sought after/prized - there's simply not enough information on the issue.....and far too much on his idolatry for it to be trusted. Also, I'm NOT saying that it's automatically wrong (as many assume) to use objects that Holy men/women and priests have utilized when it comes to exorcism (i.e. Holy Water, blessing Exorcized/Holy
salt , etc.) - for the OT and NT already show where that has been acceptable (As shared
here and
here) - and I've participated in such actions myself when going to the homes of church members with priest and praying blessings over the home and dealing with evil spirits present in the house.
However, not all objects others seek to use have ever been done with Biblical precedent nor done for the right reasons - and in light of the idolatry Solomon fell into and the magic he was involved with (already forbidden by the Lord), IMHO, there are things he did which I see little reason others need to be focused upon......and other things within the NT which may be more noteworthy.
Often in the OT, the Lord worked IN SPITE of what others did...and we often look back at an action done assuming that the ends justified the means - rather than simply seeing a recording of how things were done/what was allowed by the Lord, rather than examining if it was forbidden and the Lord instead chose to overlook it for a time. I've yet to see within the Law of God that using demons to construct the House of the Lord was something the Lord looked favorably upon when he already noted how he wanted things to go down...
For the Ring was something Solomon seemed to utilize when he was NOT serving the Lord/already full of idolatry in his life (even after the Lord gave Him wisdom since he was already married to a Daughter of Egypt according to
1 Kings 3:1-3 /
1 Kings 9:15-17 /
2 Chronicles 8:10-12 - against the rules of the Law in Deuteronomy 17 (and keep in mind - this was not Solomon's first marriage since 1 Kings 14:21 tells us that his son Rehoboam came to the throne when he was 41 years old, and 1 Kings 11:42 tells us that Solomon reigned 40 years...meaning that Rehoboam was born to his mother - a wife of Solomon named Naamah the Amonitess in
1 Kings 14:20-22/
2 Chronicles 12:12-14 - before he came to the throne and before he married this daughter of Pharaoh). And the issue of pagan women was later noted in the Scripture via the Book of Nehemiah, as Nehemiah was angry and frustrated because the people of Israel married with the pagan nations around them. And in rebuking the guilty, Nehemiah remembered Solomon's bad example:
So I contended with them and cursed them, struck some of them and pulled out their hair, and made them swear by God, saying, "You shall not give your daughters as wives to their sons, nor take their daughters for your sons or yourselves. Did not Solomon king of Israel sin by these things? Yet among many nations there was no king like him, who was beloved of his God; and God made him king over all Israel. Nevertheless pagan women caused even him to sin. Should we then hear of your doing all this great evil, transgressing against our God by marrying pagan women?" (Nehemiah 13:25-27)
[/QUOTE]
What Solomon did is something that was present even in the Jewish culture...and many other similar examples. Another example would be Acts 19:11-16, for with those casting out in the name of Christ, the Jewish exorcists later got beat up when the demons played the game they were trying back at them. Of course, that doesn't mean that it was fake when they exorcists cast out demons. Josephus speaks of King Solomon's having learned to do so. As
Flavius Josephus wrote in
Antiquities of the Jews (8:2:5):
that skill which expels demons...And he left behind him the manner of using exorcisms, by which they drive away demons so that they never return, and this method of cure is of great force unto this day. Indeed, I have see a certain man of my own country, whose name was El'azar, realizing people who were demoniacal in the presence of Vespasian, his sons, his captains and the whole multitude of soldiers. The manner of cure was this: he put a ring that had a root of one of those sorts mentioned by Solomon to the nostrils of the demoniac, after which he drew out the demon through his nosstrils....."
--Antiquities of the Jews 8:2:5
One can read the
Testament of Solomon for more information, which describes many of Solomon's explorations into magic----much of it, again, due to what happened in
I Kings 11 /
Nehemiah 13:25-27 when he began to become more and more idolatrous due to his many wives/their gods whom he followed. Exorcism of demons is a theme in the Talmud. In medieval Jewish literature, the term "dibbuk" becomes commoner. There are descriptions of Jewish exorcisms dating from the present century.
Given that demons are regarded as real and not imaginary phenomena (Matthew 4:1, Matthew 4:24, Matthew 9:34, Matthew 11:20-21, Mark 5:11-17, etc), it is at times surprising that it is sometimes possible to use magical means, that is, demonic means, to expel them. Many young adults getting involved in Paganism/Occult and for them they said they realized how there's a system in which one can learn to manipulate other spiritual entities in the spiritual realm...even when those entities are not concerned with our welfare. ...and doing Youth Ministry for nearly a decade, this is something I've seen often. Biblically, we already know there is some degree of order even in the demonic hierarchy (Ephesians 6:1-10, Daniel 9-10, etc)---and some demonic powers can expel other demonic powers.....with the rules of the system allowing for others to do certain things outside of God's rule.
But outside of God's rule/permission, it can never be appropriate. It's again a matter of Black Market mysticism which is not sanctioned by God and dangerous - Hope that makes sense, as I wanted to be clear on where I stood on the matter - and why I feel that going for the Occult when you can find things in Christ/God (if really encountering him) which are far more powerful. I always seem surprised when people promote the Occult as if it alone was where Mysticism and yet they either ignore or outright don't know of what's discussed elsew
here (With things like the dynamic of
Temple and Righteousness in Qumran and Early Christianity - Jewish Roots of Eastern Christian Mysticism among other things)...the reality of Cosmology within Christendom is very strong and vibrant and one doesn't have to go far.
Native American Theologians like Dr. Richard Twiss do an excellent job of mapping out expressions that are not necessarily within the Early Church vernacular when speaking as a Christian within the Indigenous world and being much more open to not needing all things defined - and I appreciate that since I grew up with that as well. The reality of what happens in Aministic cultures makes a huge difference when knowing that the existence of spirits and many other beings does NOT mean that one ignores Christ - or think that one has to go to the Occult in order to interact with the world. It means we go to Christ who has Dominion over it - and knowing that the world we have is very interactive
There's many separate ideas here but they all work to explain your point and viewed from your lens it seems clear to me. The bolded sentence stands out to me overall as its something that I often run into when talking religion with my naturalist or Atheist friends (who are great by the way); theism or not, it comes together much better for me as an individual if its consistent within its own systematic boundaries. Obviously the many religious and philosophies of the world are going to have many different systems but it makes sense to have one cogent one yourself be it Christian, Pagan, Atheist or whatever. Just choosing pieces of things works for some but to me it doesn't build a very concrete belief system because it feels so arbitrary.
Piecing things together randomly never helps indeed - and with my friends who are Atheists, I am glad for those noting the need for consistency and not simply critiquing those who believe in theism and yet failing to show (On the part of the atheist) where their own worldview is more solid/consistent.
One does not categorically reject Greek mythological stories or religious parables just because they may not be literally factual. People hold onto them because they often express elements of truth about the world or the human condition or something else that makes them valuable to preserve. I think individuals are being too limited in their thinking if you throw out a story because it may be empirically false. Furthermore, ideas expressed in media such as DBZ or The Last Airbender (for example) have as much merit as more ancient mythical stories in some cases. People seem to reject them because they are too modern but that's just an appeal to age fallacy as far as I'm concerned. I think that the whole body of work in human creativity has something to offer the world no matter how academic or old it is. That doesn't make it factually true but it doesn't mean it does not contain any elements of truth. Does that make sense?
Trust me when I say I get what you're saying - and of course, I have told others before that trying to always verify something as either true or false empiracally can be misleading at times (simply because the metaphysical world is already something which naturalists cannot really disappove - and Native Americans have often pointed this out with the Western world when it comes to the Enlightmnent era/Age of Reason and Materialism/REASON being promoted excessively - it's not consider logical for Native Spirituality in saying only what can be explained in science or explained in natural terms is real and this has been noted when it comes to pointing out how methods of research often differ with regards to a Native perspective as opposed to a Western one).
Some things come back to knowing the reason for your acceptance and rejection - for someone believe in the supernatural world, I don't say Greek gods/goddesses weren't real. I note they were corruptions of what God intended and beings posing as figures like that in order to steal worship away from God - even as true life lessons were still being taught. Even Paul noted this when it comes to Acts 17 and acknowledging people as already seeking what was true and yet being incomplete - and thus, he began with their knowledge of the unknown God. Now, for someone beginning a conversation on the Supernatural and other beings, if they don't even believe God is real, then others believing in the Supernatural will see that they lack reason and vice-versa.
And of course, as much as I value ideas expressed in media such as DBZ or The Last Airbender and just as I VALUE ancient mythical stories in some cases, I don't automatically say it is not factually possible simply because of modern sensibilities where science/reason are essentially the religion others go to. The way we explained the world is a big deal and I hope that makes sense in what I've conveyed.