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Why do people like Seventh-day Adventist and Adventist doctrine?

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BobRyan

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According to Paul, you uphold the law when you know you are justified apart from observing the law.

Romans 2:13-16 comes to mind. Have you read it?

13 "for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge" Romans 2:13-16

And then there is 1 Cor 6 where Paul reminds the saints that if they imagine God is going to drag them into heaven while they are in open rebellion -- they are missing a few details.

1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
 
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mark wright

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Those who imagine that it is "just SDAs" that argue for the obvious Bible truths about not taking God's name in vain and truths about ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments applicable to the saints -- might consider this --

So then what would be an example of such pro-Sunday scholarship that pertains to the 7 point summary list just posted?

Here we have section 19 of the Westminster - and of course you already have a few posts of mine quoting the "Baptist Confession of Faith"

Westminster Confession of Faith Section 19
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God
I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;l and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament

IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin: and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof: although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works. So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it; the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.

Section 21 of the Westminster and Section 22 of the Baptist both address point 7 "the change" the edit of the Sabbath commandment from the 7th day starting from creation and all through the OT and NT Gospel until the cross where it is "changed" in their mind -- to point to week-day-1

===========================================

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;

III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws,
But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the spirit and not the old way of the written code rom7:6
 
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mark wright

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Romans 2:13 comes to mind. Have you read it?

And then there is 1 Cor 6 where Paul reminds the saints that if they imagine God is going to drag them into heaven while they are in open rebellion -- they are missing a few details.

1 Cor 7
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
Yes I've read it. But you still do not understand Paul's message
 
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BobRyan

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hence --

=======================================

- D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment - but notice how this sermon on the TEN Commandments also fits the summary of 7 points listed here on page 1??

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS text by D. L. Moody

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY
The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17
.

The Fourth Commandment


Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.

THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was
- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai.
How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes;

------------------------------------------
 
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BobRyan

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But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the spirit and not the old way of the written code rom7:6

The idea of placing Romans 7 in as if it contradicted every chapter in the Bible - is not a good solution. You keep using the logical fallacy of "either or" - as if obedience and faith do not go hand in hand the way Revelation 14:12 says that they do as well as Christ admitting to this in Matthew 7 "not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven".

Why keep doing that??
 
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mark wright

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To obey the moral law, you must not lust, you must not desire anything that is not yours to have. Impure thoughts break the moral law.
Failing to love everyone you come into contact with breaks the Mora law.
If you get angry you break the moral law etc
 
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mark wright

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The idea of placing Romans 7 in as if it contradicted every chapter in the Bible - is not a good solution. You keep using the logical fallacy of "either or" - as if obedience and faith do not go hand in hand the way Revelation 14:12 says that they do as well as Christ admitting to this in Matthew 7 "not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven".

Why keep doing that??
It doesn't contradict. You say Tha because you do not understand what Paul wrote.
And Paul gave the same core message all over his writings, mot just rom7
 
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BobRyan

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According to Paul, you uphold the law when you know you are justified apart from observing the law.

Romans 2:13-16 comes to mind. Have you read it?

13 "for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge" Romans 2:13-16

And then there is 1 Cor 6 where Paul reminds the saints that if they imagine God is going to drag them into heaven while they are in open rebellion -- they are missing a few details.

1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Yes I've read it. But you still do not understand Paul's message

You are repeating that false accusation without ever showing that it has substance.

Why keep doing that?

My point is "Bible details matter"
 
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BobRyan

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To obey the moral law, you must not lust, you must not desire anything that is not yours to have. Impure thoughts break the moral law.
Failing to love everyone you come into contact with breaks the Mora law.
If you get angry you break the moral law etc

And so is that your reason for telling Christians not to say that it is wrong to take God's name in vain??

Really?

Why is it each time you read "Honor your father and mother" or "Do not murder" or "do not take God's name in vain" you want to argue as if the LAW of God is not written on your heart and you would have to do all that as a lost sinner trying to earn your way to heaven by works?

Why keep doing that??
 
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mark wright

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Romans 2:13-16 comes to mind. Have you read it?

13 "for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge" Romans 2:13-16

And then there is 1 Cor 6 where Paul reminds the saints that if they imagine God is going to drag them into heaven while they are in open rebellion -- they are missing a few details.

1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.



You are repeating that false accusation without ever showing that it has substance.

Why keep doing that?

My point is "Bible details matter"
Yes bible details do matter. Paul constantly repeats thebfollowing

The christian has no righteousness/ justification of observing the law.

Clearly you do not believe that( unless you bear false witness)
If you don't understand or accept the core of what Paul wrote, why quote him at all?
 
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mark wright

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And so is that your reason for telling Christians not to say that it is wrong to take God's name in vain??

Really?

Why is it each time you read "Honor your father and mother" or "Do not murder" or "do not take God's name in vain" you want to argue as if the LAW of God is not written on your heart and you would have to do all that as a lost sinner trying to earn your way to heaven by works?

Why keep doing that??
Your post makes no sense.
When did I state not to tell christians it us wrong to take the Lords name in vain?

I have written that it I needless to stress christians must obey the law, for born again christians want to obey the law on their heart. That's why it was put there
 
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BobRyan

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It doesn't contradict. You say Tha because you do not understand what Paul wrote.
And Paul gave the same core message all over his writings, mot just rom7

I am showing a consistent view of the Commandments of God within the NEW Covenant - written on the heart and mind - that is in perfect agreement with your own pro-sunday scholars and I have posted it about a dozen times so far.

why is it each time you see the "Commandments of God" you act as though they are not written on the heart and mind for the saints under the New Covenant?

What do you possibly hope to gain by that?

Even your own pro-sunday scholars know that the Ten Commandments apply to the saints.

And then there is Eph 6:2 telling explicitly that "yes" it is the TEN Commandments that we are to obey!
 
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mark wright

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And so is that your reason for telling Christians not to say that it is wrong to take God's name in vain??

Really?

Why is it each time you read "Honor your father and mother" or "Do not murder" or "do not take God's name in vain" you want to argue as if the LAW of God is not written on your heart and you would have to do all that as a lost sinner trying to earn your way to heaven by works?

Why keep doing that??
You still respond to posts without addressing the points made!
 
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BobRyan

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Your post makes no sense.
When did I state not to tell christians it us wrong to take the Lords name in vain?

I have written that it I needless to stress christians must obey the law, for born again christians want to obey the law on their heart. That's why it was put there

If you think that Paul made a mistake writing 1 Corinthians 6, and Romans 13 or that James was in error to write James 2 or that Paul never should have written Ephesians 6:2 - since all of them confront the saints with specific commandments of God - tell us how you would correct these NT writers.
 
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mark wright

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I am showing a consistent view of the Commandments of God within the NEW Covenant - written on the heart and mind - that is in perfect agreement with your own pro-sunday scholars and I have posted it about a dozen times so far.

why is it each time you see the "Commandments of God" you act as though they are not written on the heart and mind for the saints under the New Covenant?

What do you possibly hope to gain by that?

Even your own pro-sunday scholars know that the Ten Commandments apply to the saints.

And then there is Eph 6:2 telling explicitly that "yes" it is the TEN Commandments that we are to obey!
If you cannot state acurately what my beliefs are that I have written, it simply shows you are struggling in debate.
Don't bear false witness! That breaks the Mora law!
 
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mark wright

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If you think that Paul made a mistake writing 1 Corinthians 6, and Romans 13 or that James was in error to write James 2 or that Paul never should have written Ephesians 6:2 - since all of them confront the saints with specific commandments of God - tell us how you would correct these NT writers.
You quote selectively of the letter without understanding the heart of the covenant
 
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BobRyan

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To obey the moral law, you must not lust, you must not desire anything that is not yours to have. Impure thoughts break the moral law.
Failing to love everyone you come into contact with breaks the Mora law.
If you get angry you break the moral law etc

And so is that your reason for telling Christians not to say that it is wrong to take God's name in vain??

Really?

Why is it each time you read "Honor your father and mother" or "Do not murder" or "do not take God's name in vain" you want to argue as if the LAW of God is not written on your heart and you would have to do all that as a lost sinner trying to earn your way to heaven by works?

Why keep doing that??

You still respond to posts without addressing the points made!

Your point that before the cross - in Matt 5 Christ points out that the LAW of God is massive and that only through the New Birth and New Creation - New Covenant - Holy Spirit working within can we keep the Commandments of God. Has not been contradicted by the texts you keep complaining about.

Revelation 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

Romans 8:4-9 tells us that only the lost "do not AND CAN NOT submit to the Law of God"
 
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BobRyan

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You quote selectively of the letter without understanding the heart of the covenant

Repeating false accusation over and over - is not the same thing as proving a point has support from scripture.
 
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mark wright

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If you think that Paul made a mistake writing 1 Corinthians 6, and Romans 13 or that James was in error to write James 2 or that Paul never should have written Ephesians 6:2 - since all of them confront the saints with specific commandments of God - tell us how you would correct these NT writers.
Yet the christian has no righteousness/ justification before God of observing the law. It is written multiple times in scripture. Yet I have never met an sda who actually believes it
 
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