GENTILES OR CHRISTIANS PRACTICING THE SABBATH ?

[dfw69]

Does "all things" include wood, metal, pottery, etc? Just as those things are not included in "all things" neither is unclean meat since unclean meat was never food. Why doesn't verse 2 say, "another, who is weak, eateth only clean meat"? Because that wasn't the issue.


The vision had nothing to do with cleansing meat, but cleansing people (Acts 10:28)


Torah observant people understand the vision perfectly. It is Christians who want to do away with the dietary laws that impose their own interpretation on the vision.


I agree as would every other Torah observant believer on this forum. That is not the issue. The issue is you choosing to sin by eating unclean meat and causing others to sin by teaching them to eat unclean meat. It is because you are a brother that we love that we try to correct you in this matter.

I hear you thanks for your replies

 

[dfw69]

Revelation has two groups of people in Rev 11. The first are in the temple, and then there are those in the outer court. Understand the symbolism, the placement of the two groups, and the outcomes for where they stand.

From what I understand those inside the temple are measured for judgement but the court without is not measured because it was given to the Gentiles till the time of the Gentiles was completed ...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

SHABBAT SHALOM!

 

[gadar perets]

It may say it, but where exactly does it say the sabbath for man was a sign to remember creation?

Exodus 31:16-17 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days YHWH made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

What you fail to grasp is that Paul is referring to the 613 ceremonial laws in this verse, not the Moral Law of the Ten Commandments.

You are stating your opinion here. So all I can respond with is, I disagree.

God's Moral Law was in effect before Israel became a Nation and after the two Temple periods for all mankind to this very day.

God's Moral Law. And where is the evidence of this claim?

Matthew 5:18
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Without writing a short book, the phrase "heaven and earth" refers to the temple. The next use of the phrase is found in Matthew 24, the chapter dealing with the destruction of the temple in 70AD.

It was the RCC, not Paul (Apostle to both Jews and non-Jews) that annulled the Fourth Commandment (7th Day of Rest) and established Sunday as the Day of Rest for non-Jews.

Nope, Constantine took credit for the change, and turned Sunday into a "Sabbath", but those worshiping were already celebrating Sunday as the day of Jesus' resurrection. But no specific day was a Sabbath because every day was a Sabbath rest in Jesus. There was no "change" made. If you look into the history properly you will find that no historian of antiquity agrees with you.

 

[gadar perets]

Without writing a short book, the phrase "heaven and earth" refers to the temple. The next use of the phrase is found in Matthew 24, the chapter dealing with the destruction of the temple in 70AD.

Now who is stating opinion? How convenient of you to come up with that interpretation since Yeshua's words prove Torah will remain in force even into our future.

Actually, the next use of the phrase "heaven and earth" was used in Matthew 11:25.

 

[BobRyan]

It may say it, but where exactly does it say the sabbath for man was a sign to remember creation?

"Remember the Sabbath day.. six days shall you work...FOR IN SIX Days GOD created..." Exodus 20:8-11

Same place where we find "do not take God's name in vain" Exodus 20:7

 

[BobRyan]

You are stating your opinion here. So all I can respond with is, I disagree.
God's Moral Law. And where is the evidence of this claim?
Without writing a short book, the phrase "heaven and earth" refers to the temple. The next use of the phrase is found in Matthew 24, the chapter dealing with the destruction of the temple in 70AD.

Nope, Constantine took credit for the change, and turned Sunday into a "Sabbath", but those worshiping were already celebrating Sunday as the day of Jesus' resurrection. But no specific day was a Sabbath because every day was a Sabbath rest in Jesus. There was no "change" made. If you look into the history properly you will find that no historian of antiquity agrees with you.

You have quoted yourself well

 

[1John2:4]

SHABBAT SHALOM!

Shabbat Shalom

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Exodus 31:16-17 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days YHWH made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Ok, so the word "perpetual" implies forever, I get that. But isn't the same idea also used in Exodus 12:17 So you shall observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this same day I will have brought your armies out of the land of Egypt. Therefore you shall observe this day throughout your generations as an everlasting ordinance.

Or Exodus 30:21 So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they may not die; and it shall be a perpetual statute for them, for Aaron and his descendants throughout their generations.

But anyway, first part of the verse you quote says "the children of Israel", then "It is a sign between me and the children of Israel".

 

[YouAreAwesome]

You have quoted yourself well

What do you mean? I didn't quote anything in that post.

 

[AbbaLove]

God's Moral Law. And where is the evidence of this claim?

Jeremiah 31:33
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my Law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Jeremiah 31:33
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my Law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

I would encourage you to keep reading all the way through Jeremiah chapter 34. He shows what the New Covenant will look like with its 'better promises.'

 

[BobRyan]

I would encourage you to keep reading all the way through Jeremiah chapter 34. He shows what the New Covenant will look like with its 'better promises.'

Are you saying you are convinced that you are not a New Covenant Christian?

 

[BobRyan]

What do you mean? I didn't quote anything in that post.

Indeed no Bible
And no history text.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Are you saying you are convinced that you are not a New Covenant Christian?

The New Covenant is clearly made with Israel and Judah. I am not either, so in that sense, I am not directly a New Covenant participant. I am tangentially a participant via the promises God made Abraham and Israel.

 

[BobRyan]

There is the idea on one hand that this entire discussion is merely academic

But what does the Bible say?


Matt 5
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;

The Bible says "what wages is sin is death" Rom 6:23
The Bible says "sin is transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.
The Bible say " to him that knows to do right - and does it not , to him it is sin" James 4:17
The Bible says this in John 9
39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind.” 40 Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, “We are not blind too, are we?” 41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains.


Notice how Jesus "gets down to the smallest details" when it comes to those trying to edit/downsize/side-step" even one sliver of His Ten Commandments.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye

Notice that "Moses said", "Word of God", "Commandment of God" ... are all in one category -- while "your tradition' and "your own tradition" and "tradition of men" are in another category --- according to Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

I would encourage you to keep reading all the way through Jeremiah chapter 34. He shows what the New Covenant will look like with its 'better promises.'

Are you saying you are convinced that you are not a New Covenant Christian?

The New Covenant is clearly made with Israel and Judah. I am not either, so in that sense, I am not directly a New Covenant participant. I am tangentially a participant via the promises God made Abraham and Israel.

interesting.

So then you are left out of the promises of the New Covenant - the "ONE" Gospel of Gal 1:6-9 preached to Abraham Gal 3:8?

Left out of Romans 2?

Romans 2
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Left out of Romans 9?
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.” 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

 

[visionary]

From what I understand those inside the temple are measured for judgement but the court without is not measured because it was given to the Gentiles till the time of the Gentiles was completed ...

That is a start... but there is more... the judgment within is for the Mark of God... the completion is the abomination absolute in the court without... Think for a moment, what is in the outer court... then think about what is in the temple and what it represents... There is a point where acknowledging sacrifice and baptism is not enough.

 

[visionary]

Nope, Constantine took credit for the change, and turned Sunday into a "Sabbath", but those worshiping were already celebrating Sunday as the day of Jesus' resurrection. But no specific day was a Sabbath because every day was a Sabbath rest in Jesus. There was no "change" made. If you look into the history properly you will find that no historian of antiquity agrees with you.

How can you claim you are grafted into Israel but then claim that only Jews are suppose to keep and observe the Feasts? That doesn't make sense to me...If you are grafted in through Messiah then you are partakers of the feasts as well.... Grafted in means grafted in, either you are or you are not..