GENTILES OR CHRISTIANS PRACTICING THE SABBATH ?

[Truthfrees]

MOD HAT

Posts have been removed or edited for the parts that teach against the MJ SOP.

 

[visionary]

pat34lee,

1. Hebrews 8:6-7 says the Old covenant was replaced by the new.
The law was one whole unit. If you broke one you broke all of it according to James.
Paul said the law came because of transgressions.
It was from Abraham that the Jewish race came from and it was the promise of salvation through the Abrahamic covenant through Christ.
Galatians says the Mosaic law was til the seed should come who was Christ.
Christ fulfilled the Mosaic law and it was satisfied and expired and was abolished at the cross
Matthew 5:17; 26:28; 2 Corinthians 3:13-16; Colossians 2:14-15.

2. The sacrificial system was done away with Hebrews 9:9-17. The priesthood was changed from Leviticus to Melchizedek Hebrews 7.

3. The civil law was changed 1 Timothy 1:9-12 and is now for the disobedient.
Christians have a new nature with the power of the finished work of Christ and are not to be subdued by the law. Peter said the flesh has ceased from sin so not to fulfill the things of the flesh.

4. The moral law was done away with according to the Mosaic judgements.
This doesn't mean that the moral law itself was done away with because the moral law is in every age and sin is always wrong.
Under the Mosaic law fornication had the penalty of stoning. This is not a new covenant judgement.

5. The law was Holy and Good but could not save a person. It could only say " thou shalt not" but couldn't help a person perform the commandment.
Romans 7 talks about the law of sin and death taking advantage of the law that was Holy and Good and made the live to the frailty of man in sin more than overcome.
Romans 8:2 says the law of the Spirit did awY with the law of sin and death which had been taking advantage of the Old covenant of law. This sows one of the better promises of the new covenant over the old covenant weaknesses.

6. Going back to Hebrews 8 which is the same as Jeremiah 31:31-34 is future for Israel because Israel the nation is still backslidden and that is why they are still blinded in the reading of the Old Testament 2 Corinthians 3:13-16.
Also in Hebrews 8:8-12 has not been fulfilled otherwise every man wouldn't have to be taught because they would already have the knowledge.

7. The Jew and gentiles are in one body of Christ and on the same level etc.
Culturally a Jew can be a Jew but must follow the new covenant ethic and commandments.
Gentiles don't have to become Jews either for they are not Jews culturally.
Technically. a Jew could do sabbath on another day just like a gentile could do sabbath on a Jewish sabbath etc.

8. Just because the Jews still had a conscience doesn't mean that the Old covenant wasn't a different covenant and the same principle with the Old and the New covenant. Romans 2 shows that each age will be judged differently.
So you have the wrong idea of what it means about the Old covenant of law being abolished means. Jerry Kelso

God's opinion needs to be in this mix. He sent an angel with a very loud voice in revelation saying "worship Him" and there is only one directive throughout scripture on how to do that, and it is on the Sabbath Day, the day He set aside for that purpose.

 

[ToBeLoved]

God's opinion needs to be in this mix. He sent an angel with a very loud voice in revelation saying "worship Him" and there is only one directive throughout scripture on how to do that, and it is on the Sabbath Day, the day He set aside for that purpose.

If God is not being worshipped EVERYDAY, then we are not doing it right. I don't need to wait for a particular day to worship God. Everyday is the Sabbath in my heart.

 

[gadar perets]

If God is not being worshipped EVERYDAY, then we are not doing it right. I don't need to wait for a particular day to worship God. Everyday is the Sabbath in my heart.

You are correct in that the Almighty should be worshiped every day. The Sabbath command does NOT limit His worship to one day a week. However, it does limit when work can be done, that is, on the first six days of the week. Work is forbidden on the 7th day for those who believe and obey. Your words say, "Everyday is the Sabbath in my heart," but if you are not resting on the 7th day, then you don't have the Sabbath in your heart. You have your own traditions in your heart.

 

[pat34lee]

If God is not being worshipped EVERYDAY, then we are not doing it right. I don't need to wait for a particular day to worship God. Everyday is the Sabbath in my heart.

So you set everything aside seven days a week, including work and play, to spend all your time in contemplation, bible reading and prayer? Why do I think that it isn't even a single day?

 

[Truthfrees]

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[visionary]

If God is not being worshipped EVERYDAY, then we are not doing it right. I don't need to wait for a particular day to worship God. Everyday is the Sabbath in my heart.

Pat answer, which no one will disagree with the every moment of our lives we worship Him, but that is not obedience to His Word on the way, time, He wants us to show Whom we worship.

 

[BukiRob]

If God is not being worshipped EVERYDAY, then we are not doing it right. I don't need to wait for a particular day to worship God. Everyday is the Sabbath in my heart.

Your statement fails. Did not the Jews worship and pray 3 times a day?

Sabbath was made for MAN not the other way around<staff edit>

 

[gadar perets]

<staff edit> What we are saying, or at least what I am saying, is that the Sabbath is more than a time set aside to worship. It is also a time to cease from work as He did at creation. We are to not only follow His example, but we are to obey His command to rest.

<staff edit>fervently seek the Father's will on this matter through prayer AND deep Bible study. We are to live His truth, not our "own truth".

 

[gadar perets]

<staff edit>
I am under the New Covenant as well. The Ten Commandments are part of the New Covenant. As for God letting you know, perhaps He is trying to teach you through this forum. Instead of trying to refute the Sabbath, why don't you seek to understand it?

 

[BukiRob]

<staff edit>

The "church" hangs its entire doctrine of "strictly grace" that does away with Torah and Sabbath on the teachings of Paul.

So then, <staff edit> Paul's actions in Acts 21

17 After we arrived in Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 And the following day Paul went in with us to [c]James, and all the elders were present. 19 After he had greeted them, he began to relate one by one the things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many [d]thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to [e]walk according to the customs. 22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who [f]are under a vow; 24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and [g]pay their expenses so that they may shave their [h]heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.

There is a LOT going on here. First and IMO most importantly is James statement about the Jews who are coming to Messiah.

James makes note of the fact that "They are ZEALOUS for the Law (TORAH)

No where does James suggest, hint or make a direct or indirect indication that being Zealous for Torah is in any way, shape or form error.

In fact, as we see further down James holds the exact OPPOSITE view when he says to Paul in verse 24 that " ...you yourself also walk ORDERLY keeping the Torah."

Do you see that? James and the elders are CLEARLY saying that observing Torah is to have an ORDERLY WALK.

Paul not only does not disagree with this view HE WILLINGLY COMPLIES WITH IT. This is proven in verse 27: When the seven days were almost over, the Jews from [k]Asia, upon seeing him in the temple, began to stir up all the crowd and laid hands on him,

So, you have James and the Elders in FULL support of Torah observance. You have Paul taking the vow of the Nazarene and doing ALL that is prescribed for this vow and is doing so EXPLICITLY to show that he, Paul, is NOT anti Torah quite the opposite.

You are left with only one of 2 options with Paul's view on the Torah.

1) Paul is anti Torah, teaching grace only and is openly actively engaged in a bold faced lie. (In which case ALL of his teachings should be cast aside since he is not trustworthy.

OR

2) Paul is PRO Torah and what Peter says about Paul is 100% true. 2 Peter 3:16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

<staff edit>

 

[BukiRob]

<staff edit>

The BIGGEST problem I have with the perversion of teaching regarding Sabbath, Torah and the Feast days is this.

Sabbath is NOT, not, NOT a peripheral issue. It is a CORE, FUNDAMENTAL, CENTRAL ISSUE.

There is no argument that can be set forth to place into doubt that ALL of the Apostles observed Sabbath, Torah and the Feast days until the day they died. Anyone teaching otherwise is teaching a lie.

The Church in Asia Minor observed all the above until the 4th century when they were basically wiped out by the Byzantine empire.

Finally, if indeed it was the Fathers intent to "free" us from the Torah, Feast days and Sabbath then why did Yeshua not speak about this during his ministry. He never said anything of the sort publicly nor privately to his apostles. If indeed those things were set aside then why would he have not instructed them after he was raised? Those things were the bedrock foundation of all they had been taught as G-d's truth.....

<staff edit>

 

[BukiRob]

<staff edit>
Paul's actions in Act 21 15-24

James is in support of Torah Observance, Sabbath and the Feast Days.

Messiah never once indicated in any way directly or indirectly that the Torah, Sabbath and the Feast Days are set aside. This was never mentioned by Messiah during his ministry publicly or privately. He never discussed the notion after his Resurrection. These are CORE and FOUNDATIONAL to everything that G-d had decreed from Sinai. It is utterly unthinkable that they would be set aside without Messiah indicating so to the Apostles.

ALL of the Apostles observed Torah, Sabbath and the Feast Days until the day they died and why the churches in Asia Minor did so well into the 4th century.

 

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