praying in tongues glossolia

[Goatee]

Gibberish does not come from God.

The Apostles spoke in tongues so that 'everyone' could know the Gospel. They did not speak in gibberish!

This is what is spoken today = GIBBERISH!

 

[rockytopva]

Gibberish does not come from God.

The Apostles spoke in tongues so that 'everyone' could know the Gospel. They did not speak in gibberish!

This is what is spoken today = GIBBERISH!

2 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. - 1 Corinthians 14

 

[swordsman1]

2 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. - 1 Corinthians 14

Remember the context of 1 Cor 14 is local church meetings, so yes if someone spoke in a language that no one in the congregation knew then nobody would understand what was said. That doesn't mean it was a non-human language.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

What I can tell you is there are a ton of churches practicing many unbiblical practices and down right false teaching. The list of churches with pastors who teach sound doctrine at least in the US is getting smaller everyday.

And who is the authority on "sound doctrine"? You? What are the requirements of "sound doctrine"?

I reject all satanic languages/tongues in the satanic "churches" of the last days!!!!!

The Truth About Tongues and Pentecostalism (Part 1)

The Truth About Tongues and Pentecostalism (Part 2)

I also reject satanic tongues as I reject satanic worship. I am in favour of godly tongues and Jesus worship.

FOR THERE TO BE A COUNTERFEIT THERE MUST BE THE REAL THING!

Brother, with all due respect it is one thing to "grow up" AG and another to be a pastor and leader in the denomination. Believe me I am aware of the doctrine and things that go on at the highest levels all the way up to George O Wood. I know district heads and superintendents personally. Now, if you want to say I still do not know what I am talking about, go right ahead.

I also know the leadership of Praise Chapel personally as well......and trust me you do not want to go down either road with me and it is probably not appropriate to discuss on this thread in particular. Make no mistake, this goes well beyond doctrinal differences to the arena of theft, lies, deception, money laundering, and infiltration by occult ties.

Isn't this like saying "I knew a Christian who lied" so all Christians are fake and evil?

Gibberish does not come from God.

The Apostles spoke in tongues so that 'everyone' could know the Gospel. They did not speak in gibberish!

This is what is spoken today = GIBBERISH!

Are you trolling? You speak of what you don't understand with mockery. This is not befitting Christian conduct.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Isn't this like saying "I knew a Christian who lied" so all Christians are fake and evil?

No it is not like saying I knew a Christian who lied. I am saying I know first hand of deceiving people, stealing money, adultery, and money laundering.....so no it is not the same thing.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

No it is not like saying I knew a Christian who lied. I am saying I know first hand of deceiving people, stealing money, adultery, and money laundering.....so no it is not the same thing.

Yes, and because of these individuals you have a negative bias for their religious beliefs and practises. And all people who believe similarly you place in the same basket no? Are all Catholics the same as a few wayward priests? Are all sda going to bunker down with military weapons? You can't judge a group by individuals. But this is part of your persuasive argument. Judging doctrine using the people who believe it for logic is not good.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Yes, and because of these individuals you have a negative bias for their religious beliefs and practises. And all people who believe similarly you place in the same basket no? Are all Catholics the same as a few wayward priests? Are all sda going to bunker down with military weapons? You can't judge a group by individuals. But this is part of your persuasive argument. Judging doctrine using the people who believe it for logic is not good.

Frankly you are all over the map. Interjecting SDA and Catholics...I am not sure you are really following the discussion.

Guess what, we are to judge, between right and wrong, truth and error, false doctrine and sound doctrine, good and evil. If you do not know that you have not been reading your bible closely.

Saying I am basing my view on a group is not right either, I do not shape my doctrine off of people and their corruption. Despite the fact these are the LEADERS of the fellowships and denominations, not some people sitting in pews or a few random pastors...

I shape it off sound biblical doctrine as established one by the Holy Spirit and sound teachers that have come before me.

These individuals did open my eyes to the vast corruption that is across the board. The ironic thing is you are accusing me of judging a group of people, but isn't that what you are doing to me....

PS I think it is the Mormons that are known for prepping and so forth, not the SDA

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Frankly you are all over the map. Interjecting SDA and Catholics...I am not sure you are really following the discussion.

Guess what, we are to judge, between right and wrong, truth and error, false doctrine and sound doctrine, good and evil. If you do not know that you have not been reading your bible closely.

Saying I am basing my view on a group is not right either, I do not shape my doctrine off of people and their corruption. Despite the fact these are the LEADERS of the fellowships and denominations, not some people sitting in pews or a few random pastors...

I shape it off sound biblical doctrine as established one by the Holy Spirit and sound teachers that have come before me.

These individuals did open my eyes to the vast corruption that is across the board.

I don't mean to offend you, I'm sorry. I am trying to point out a problem. Don't you think references to "leadership" or any person at all, is not helpful? We are discussing doctrine yes? The way I read 1 Corinthians 14 supports my experience. I know some churches and individuals do things I don't think the bible supports, but it is not for me to judge them. I just don't participate in it myself.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

I don't mean to offend you, I'm sorry. I am trying to point out a problem. Don't you think references to "leadership" or any person at all, is not helpful? We are discussing doctrine yes? The way I read 1 Corinthians 14 supports my experience. I know some churches and individuals do things I don't think bible supports, but it is not for me to judge them. I just don't participate in it myself.

I appreciate the apology.

But I do think references to corrupt leadership is helpful because it shows the bigger issue which leads to confusion about these topics.

We are to address false teachers and corruption in the church.

Titus 1:11-3:7King James Version (KJV)
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.

13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Ephesians 5:11King James Version (KJV)
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.


When we tolerate false teaching, evil, corruption, and so on we eventually lose the ability to discern between them.

 

[rockytopva]

I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: - 1 Corinthians 14:18

 

[YouAreAwesome]

I appreciate the apology.

But I do think references to corrupt leadership is helpful because it shows the bigger issue which leads to confusion about these topics.

We are to address false teachers and corruption in the church.

Titus 1:11-3:7King James Version (KJV)
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.

13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Ephesians 5:11King James Version (KJV)
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.


When we tolerate false teaching, evil, corruption, and so on we eventually lose the ability to discern between them.

Yes, we can't remain blind to corruption I agree. But who do we correct? Who do we teach? I think there are two groups:
1. Those who will listen
2. Those with whom we have a good relationship

I find it difficult to say what I think about this, but our ministry should be to build up rather than tear down. The bible quotes you've given, I see the writers as having the authority to say these things, to correct. But if we have no relationship or authority in a group then who are we to criticise them?

Can't we just worship with others and build them up rather than attacking those we don't agree with?

Do see where I'm coming from?

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Yes, we can't remain blind to corruption I agree. But who do we correct? Who do we teach? I think there are two groups:
1. Those who will listen
2. Those with whom we have a good relationship

I find it difficult to say what I think about this, but our ministry should be to build up rather than tear down. The bible quotes you've given, I see the writers as having the authority to say these things, to correct. But if we have no relationship or authority in a group then who are we to criticise them?

Can't we just worship with others and build them up rather than attacking those we don't agree with?

Do see where I'm coming from?

Interesting points and valid. I will say I had authority in these denominations as a leader and pastor, yet trust me when I say there is zero accountability at the top, and that is not biblical.

So, we do go on with those who will listen, listen to sound doctrine. Like this topic on tongues. Are tongues biblical, yes, however in many Pentecostal circles they are not being done biblically. It is not biblical nor beneficial to the body to have a worship leader go on and on in tongues during a service or a pastor with no interpretation what so ever. Meanwhile they are teaching through their actions that this is ok. A young believer and even worse yet a believer that is bible illiterate opens themselves up to a false spirit and much worse as the bible says their condition becomes than when they first came.

Peoples souls are on the line, leaders will give an account one day to the Lord, but in the meantime we are to be watchful and diligent to rightly divide the word of truth 2 Timothy 2:15 .

 

[LinkH]

You are accusing me of ties to occult groups! No you don't know because I can see there is a lack of discernment and a nasty accusation that now reveals itself.

I have NO ties to any freemason group or occult group, NONE.

It looks like I hit a sore point with you. It wasn't intentional.

If you consider knowing and interacting with someone from a secret society to be 'ties', how can you know? I said 'ties'. You could sit in a cave hooked up to solar panels, watching conspiracy theory videos on YouTube, living off the land and off the savings you keep in a coffee can buried outside for all I know. But how would you know if someone who worked at your ISP was in the Masons or the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes. Would that constitute a 'tie'?

Anyway, there are several of these groups related to the Knights of Malta. How do you know that some of them aren't kind of like being knighted by Queen Elizabeth. I read that one is a masonic order.

I left these corrupt ministries because they are involved in this ungodly behavior!

So, do you know people who hang out with Masons? Does that constitute a 'tie'.

If you talk to your fornicator neighbor sometimes, is that a 'tie' to fornicators?

Actually the tactic you just used by accusing me directly points more to the suspicion of you at this point as this is the exact tactic they use when people are exposing them.

If you think you can know whose a Mason or member of the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes automatically by discernment, well, I'm not. so I can't trust whether you know if other people in your life are Masons or what-not by discernment. If knowing and interacting is a 'tie', then you can't say you don't have ties.

 

[LinkH]

But did he literally do those things?

Did he literally give ALL his possessions to feed the poor? That would include the clothes on his back. Did Paul really walk around naked? Clearly not.

Did he literally give up his body to be burned? Seeing as was still alive at the time of writing then clearly not. And it certainly wouldn't be something he would do willingly.

If he didn't literally do any of those things in the parallel statements then neither can it be said he literally spoke in the language of angels. Rather he was speaking figuratively to make the point that even if he had the most superlative of gifts it would be nothing without love.

We don't know if Paul gave all his possessions to be burned. That's not the question though. Since our concern is whether anyone speaks in 'tongues of angels' the question is whether the things Paul mentioned are possible, not whether he did them.

Do you disagree with Christ's teaching about faith and moving mountains?

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Interesting points and valid. I will say I had authority in these denominations as a leader and pastor, yet trust me when I say there is zero accountability at the top, and that is not biblical.

So, we do go on with those who will listen, listen to sound doctrine. Like this topic on tongues. Are tongues biblical, yes, however in many Pentecostal circles they are not being done biblically. It is not biblical nor beneficial to the body to have a worship leader go on and on in tongues during a service or a pastor with no interpretation what so ever. Meanwhile they are teaching through their actions that this is ok. A young believer and even worse yet a believer that is bible illiterate opens themselves up to a false spirit and much worse as the bible says their condition becomes than when they first came.

Peoples souls are on the line, leaders will give an account one day to the Lord, but in the meantime we are to be watchful and diligent to rightly divide the word of truth 2 Timothy 2:15 .

Accountability with finances is important. As for tongues in a church setting, I think there can be a time e.g. Everyone who speaks in tongues to do so together for a short time and everyone else can pray as they normally would. But this would not be the norm. I think the point is to follow the Spirit and build up in love. As long as that is the goal it should be okay.

 

[LinkH]

Again... If you had to think about the tongues then the tongues were not of God to begin with..

Maybe you ought to explain your point. You are thinking about tongues to write these posts right now. Does thinking about tongues make it invalid? Lots of people have something going on in their mind when they first speak in tongues. That doesn't mean they aren't genuine.

People also who get prophecies or words of knowledge might wonder what that is, or second guess. When someone else gives the same interpretation or the word of knowledge is shown to be true, they start to figure out what is going on.

Do you mean if someone tries to think up the sounds to say in tongues, it is not legitimate?

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Accountability with finances is important. As for tongues in a church setting, I think there can be a time e.g. Everyone who speaks in tongues to do so together for a short time and everyone else can pray as they normally would. But this would not be the norm. I think the point is to follow the Spirit and build up in love. As long as that is the goal it should be okay.

If you follow the Holy Spirit you follow his word because they never contradict.

John 8
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

So many times I hear verse 32 quoted, yet never together with 31. 31 is the key, three components Jesus sets as prereq for truth.

1 Believe in him
2 Continue in HIS WORD
3 Then you are his disciples (disciplined follower)

 

[YouAreAwesome]

If you follow the Holy Spirit you follow his word because they never contradict.

John 8
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

So many times I hear verse 32 quoted, yet never together with 31. 31 is the key, three components Jesus sets as prereq for truth.

1 Believe in him
2 Continue in HIS WORD
3 Then you are his disciples (disciplined follower)

Yes, and what is HIS WORD? The bible? Or His Word that He speaks daily to our hearts by the Holy Spirit personally? Or maybe both?

It may be better in general to prophesy in church (though not many churches include this as normal practise), but does that mean there is a law against tongues? I believe the only law is obedience to the Spirit of love, and obedience is far broader than we would expect, because God is not a puppet master, but gives us freedom to make decisions. This is my view anyways.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

It looks like I hit a sore point with you. It wasn't intentional.

You give yourself far too much credit on hitting a sore point. Also it appears you came in with some sort of deception as you say it was intentional.....another occult practice....I am seriously thinking it is you who is the mason or occultist.

I will say this again I HAVE NO TIES to any masons or occult groups....I am highly suspicious of you now though. Especially with your youtube conspiracy references and so on, an obvious attempt to discredit anyone who talks about masons as wacko conspiracy nuts eh...I think that is a tactic called gas-lighting. You are not as clever as you think you are.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Yes, and what is HIS WORD? The bible? Or His Word that He speaks daily to our hearts by the Holy Spirit personally? Or maybe both?

It may be better in general to prophesy in church (though not many churches include this as normal practise), but does that mean there is a law against tongues? I believe the only law is obedience to the Spirit of love, and obedience is far broader than we would expect, because God is not a puppet master, but gives us freedom to make decisions. This is my view anyways.

His word is the bible, the word is also Jesus 1 John. Jesus and the word are one in the same, you should know this.