The evidence for Evolution.

[Bugeyedcreepy]

I get the idea that all you are doing is trying to get me not to believe, but you should know that isn't going to happen. I've already told you why I think my beliefs are far from ridiculous as opposed to the alternative, yet you keep telling me they are, what's the point? do you think saying it over and over will change a thing?

Can't be about much more than you trying to kill my faith, so let's cut to the chase, why do you want to do that? You don't act like you are concerned for my well being, as my beliefs can't hurt me at all, and can only do me good whether true or not. It's an oddity to me why you are even here so that's the only sense I can make of it, yet even that makes no sense.

Does it help you feel less insecure with your own lack of beliefs if you can think in your mind that you have stumped others with your questions? And why so insecure to begin with? I mean if you are settled with your beliefs, then go believe them....live and let live, but I don't think you are, not even close, at least that's what your actions seem to suggest..

On my position, it's like many others because we all believe in the same bible. Once again, a simple concept you shouldn't even have to ask. Do you just like hearing me say what you know I'm going to say so you can say I'm wrong...again?

No, I don't mind you indulging in your chosen beliefs, so long as reality gets priority. Plenty of believers have their spiritual enlightenment and still honor reality along with everyone else. The issue is that the same belief system that causes YEC's to reject reality, can and has caused good people to do bad things, such as refuse medical aid, deny their children medical aid, deny blood transfusions in emergencies, deliberately avoid vaccinations for their children, victimise minority groups such as Atheists, other religions,LGBT's ethnic minorities by denying them to various degrees marriage, accommodation, services, caused people to fly planes into buildings full of people - belief has caused murders of family planning medical staff, denied stem cell research, stymied education to culture the next generation to cause more of the aforementioned actions on those beliefs, including filling governments and people in positions of power to act on those beliefs that affect everyone regardless their individual positions, it causes suicide bombings when believers in paradise want to be martyred, etc.

As I said, everyone of every faith including those of us without faith, share this one and only reality for sure. It's a concern that there are systems of belief and subscribers to them that actively ignore this shared reality in favour of their particular religious narration. Why wouldn't you want to honestly know what is real?

 

[Speedwell]

They can stand and listen to the others pray then.

Would you want your kids to stand and listen to them pray?

The 1611 King James, fifth edition. Literally, for starters.

And Christians who use another version, who don't interpret it literally? What about them?

It's not just atheists who don't want prayer or Bible study in the public schools. Other religious groups groups don't it to be done your way, and realize it wouldn't be fair to impose their way either.

 

[Kenny'sID]

No, I don't mind you indulging in your chosen beliefs, so long as reality gets priority.

And again you spew the same ol stuff. My beliefs are absolute reality to me, and try as to will to change that, I'll keep it as my reality.

The issue is that the same belief system that causes YEC's to reject reality,

That is your issue, not mine, if you want to believe in something as ridiculous as evolution you are free to do so, but to call it reality when it never crossed the line from theory, is simply non factual.

That's a far as I read, it's just the same thing over and over, so no more point to reading it that I can see, unless you are now resorting to brow beating me into submission to your, um... reality.

 

[-57]

I have, and you just blow it off.

Perhaps we had discussed it in a previous thread many months ago...but I don't remember discussing it with you.
It is a very serious question for the Theo-Evo sect that hasn't been adequately answered as of yet.

So, let me ask you again, refresh my mind....Perhaps you would like to explain how sin and death entered the world through one man.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

You couldn't be more wrong; and it's interesting that you brought up gravity, because I use gravity as an example of physical evidence for the existence of God.

Just as gravity can't be seen, but its effects can be observed; God can't be seen (He's invisible), but His effects can be observed.

Effects such as churches, the Bible, martyrs, songs, iconography, bumper stickers, slogans, organizations, debates, videos, movies, holidays, time divided into BC/AD and the like, all attest to the existence of God.

If the effects of God was half as detectable as the effects of Gravity, we'd be onto something - but alas, no, that's just an equivocation fallacy of the highest order.

Your claimed effects work equally as well for Islam - Effects such as mosques, the Qur'an, martyrs, songs, iconography, bumper stickers, slogans, organizations, debates, videos, movies, holidays, time marked by Hirji and the like, all attest to the existence of Allah.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

You do understand that if there is "stuff" today...there is the need for an uncreated creator to make the "stuff".
It is well understood that "stuff" can't self create itself from nothing. As they say, you can't be and not be at the same time.

Sure I do, I don't accept your proposition about the need for an uncreated creator though, there's simply no evidence of such a thing. Where did the "stuff" that makes your hypothesized creator come from? Besides, if there's the possibility of something uncreated, then let's skip a step and say the Universe is uncreated, that to me is Way more believable than some omniscient creator that's always been there...

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

And again you spew the same ol stuff. My beliefs are absolute reality to me, and try as to will to change that, I'll keep it as my reality.



That is your issue, not mine, if you want to believe in something as ridiculous as evolution you are free to do so, but to call it reality when it never crossed the line from theory, is simply non factual.

That's a far as I read, it's just the same thing over and over, so no more point to reading it that I can see, unless you are now resorting to brow beating me into submission to your, um... reality.

So I have this straight, you don't care what is actually true, you just want to believe whatever it is you've been told to believe by your religion, facts be damned?

 

[-57]

Sure I do, I don't accept your proposition about the need for an uncreated creator though, there's simply no evidence of such a thing. Where did the "stuff" that makes your hypothesized creator come from? Besides, if there's the possibility of something uncreated, then let's skip a step and say the Universe is uncreated, that to me is Way more believable than some omniscient creator that's always been there...

The difference is this. The creator exist outside of time. The universe exist inside of time.

If the universe always existed then it has to overcome two obstacles:
1) If the universe existed from eternity past....today would never arrive. Yet, here we are.
2) If the universe existed from eternity past then through entropy it would have lost all it's energy eons ago.

 

[Speedwell]

Perhaps we had discussed it in a previous thread many months ago...but I don't remember discussing it with you.
It is a very serious question for the Theo-Evo sect that hasn't been adequately answered as of yet.

So, let me ask you again, refresh my mind....Perhaps you would like to explain how sin and death entered the world through one man.

Not a chance. You'll just end up trying to get me to defend that stupid Biologos website you love to hate. You and I have been arguing about this for close to twenty years. I'm surprised you haven't tumbled to who I am (was) yet.

 

[-57]

Not a chance. You'll just end up trying to get me to defend that stupid Biologos website you love to hate. You and I have been arguing about this for close to twenty years. I'm surprised you haven't tumbled to who I am (was) yet.

Even Biologos can't defend it. That's a major big time problem for the The-Evo sect. They need to change to much bible to make their theology work.

As to tumbling on to who you are....I haven't done that yet, nor thought about who you might be in our forum past. You have peaked my curiosity....You can send me an inbox and tell me if you desire..or even post it in a reply to this response.

 

[AV1611VET]

Would you want your kids to stand and listen to them pray?

If I had kids, they'd better be there praying as well.

And Christians who use another version, who don't interpret it literally? What about them?

They don't need to agree with everything.

What about Christians who don't agree with evolution in school?

They have to put up with far worse things than being told Lymphas was a woman.

It's not just atheists who don't want prayer or Bible study in the public schools. Other religious groups groups don't it to be done your way, and realize it wouldn't be fair to impose their way either.

Then let the Christians decide.

Not some woman who was the head of some atheist organization.

 

[AV1611VET]

If the effects of God was half as detectable as the effects of Gravity, we'd be onto something -

Is that why some people work hard to get those "weak effects" out of the public view?

For the record, they claim it is an attempt at proselytizing.

If that's true, then I'd say those effects are just as noticeable as gravity.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Is that why some people work hard to get those "weak effects" out of the public view?

For the record, they claim it is an attempt at proselytizing.

If that's true, then I'd say those effects are just as noticeable as gravity.

No idea. What weak effects are you talking about? How is it measured? Can they be equally claimed by some other religion besides yours?

 

[AV1611VET]

No idea. What weak effects are you talking about?

The ones you said were half as weak as gravity, even though some people try so hard to get them removed from public view.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

The ones you said were half as weak as gravity, even though some people try so hard to get them removed from public view.

Like What? I said If there were any effects half as weak as the effects of Gravity, then there's something we can go with - but there isn't, unless you can point something out that I've missed?

 

[AV1611VET]

Like What?

Like MERRY CHRISTMAS and GOD REST YE MERRY, GENTLEMEN.

Not to mention GOD IS MY PILOT bumper stickers and gadgets like The Wordless Book.

 

[Speedwell]

Even Biologos can't defend it. That's a major big time problem for the The-Evo sect. They need to change to much bible to make their theology work.

As to tumbling on to who you are....I haven't done that yet, nor thought about who you might be in our forum past. You have peaked my curiosity....You can send me an inbox and tell me if you desire..or even post it in a reply to this response.

Of course, I don't care about it as much as you do. Sin and death are here now and and we need redemption from them whatever their source. But sin is not a metaphysical entity which "entered the world." That's a metaphor. Sin requires awareness--a knowledge of good and evil. Likewise death is not mere cessation of life, it is awareness of our own mortality. How did that awareness come about? I don't know exactly, and neither did the author(s) of the Garden story who wrote it up as an etiological folk myth. In any case, I see no great need to square it with the theory of evolution.

Remember Beliefnet?

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Like MERRY CHRISTMAS and GOD REST YE MERRY, GENTLEMEN.

Not to mention GOD IS MY PILOT bumper stickers and gadgets like The Wordless Book.

How about "Happy Hanuka!" or Ramadan? How about these Islamic bumper stickers?

 

[Speedwell]

Then let the Christians decide.

We have. No biblical literalist prayer and Bible study in the public schools.

 

[AV1611VET]

How about "Happy Hanuka!" or Ramadan? How about these Islamic bumper stickers?

How about false prophets and diabolical mimicry?

As many times as I've told this story, it's worth repeating again, I guess:

There was a man who captured a Leprechaun and made the Leprechaun tell him where the Leprechaun had buried his treasure. The Leprechaun took the man to the base of a tree in the forest and pointed to the ground; whereupon the man tied a yellow ribbon around the tree, made the Leprechaun promise he wouldn't touch it, then went and got a shovel.

Returning to the forest, the man was horrified to see that the Leprechaun had tied a yellow ribbon around every tree in the forest.

Satan is like that.

As the old saying goes:

If he can't get you to hit the brakes, he will get you to step on the gas.