For all eternity - "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before God to Worship"

[BobRyan]

Matt 19 it is Jesus - not the rich young ruler that says " if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."　

In Matt 19 it is the rich young ruler - not Jesus that asks "Which ones"

In Matt 19 it is Jesus - not the rich young ruler that quotes from scripture ... from the TEN Commandments like this --

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said;Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life 17 And He said to him, Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments; 18 Then he *said to Him, Which ones? And Jesus said,
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself - (Lev 19:18)

In Matt 19 it is Jesus affirming the very unit of the TEN Commandments that those at war against the Commandments of God try to attack.

Here is what we do NOT find Jesus saying in Matt 19 "Jesus said ..., it was impossible for him to enter the kingdom of God in this way"

Rather Jesus said - "if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments;"

Hint - eye of needle is the name given to the courtyard gate into Jerusalem - when the main gate was closed a smaller courtyard gate could still be accessed but to do so all the load must be removed from the camel and it had to go through it on its knees.

He was talking about a narrow entrance into the city of Jerusalem, a gate known locally as “the eye of the needle.” This gate was so small that a camel could only be brought through with great difficulty, squeezed through on its knees—which depicts how we humbly need to come to the Lord.

The eye of the needle used to be in Damascus and was a side gate alongside the main gate of the "street called straight" Being a side gate it was not intended for passage by animals especially camels carrying side loads. So it was nigh impossible for the act to happen.

http://www.best-travel-deals-tips.com/jerusalem-eye-of-the-needle-gate.html

hint:
Job was a "rich man"
Abraham was a "rich man"
David was a "rich man"
Solomon was a "rich man"

No writer of scripture NT or OT ever claimed that no rich man would be in heaven.

As we all know.

27But He said, "The things that are impossible with people are possible with God."

Thus Christ argues for obedience WITH God - just when those at war with God's Word - His Commandments - the Commandments of God would argue that even in Christ it is "not enough" and that the Luke 18:27 statement of Christ cannot be true.

The straw man "keep Commandments apart from God" is only proposed by those at war with the Commandments of God - as they do each time the Ten Commandments topic comes up.

 

[BobRyan]

You tell part of the story to prove your SDA doctrine,
.

Is it still your failed and sadly debunked accusation that even the pro-sunday groups that debunk your argument - are all SDA???

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.


====================


But your own pro-sunday scholars know not to do that --

D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment - but notice how this sermon on the TEN Commandments also fits the summary of 7 points listed here on page 1??

http://www.fbinstitute.com/moody/The_TenCommandments_Text.html

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY
The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17
.
The Fourth Commandment


Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes;

------------------------------------------



You can choose to oppose the Bible, the Bible-Sabbath scholars and even the majority of pro-sunday scholars if you wish - but I think Moody makes a point that is pretty obvious even to many of your own pro-sunday scholars.

 

[BABerean2]

In Matt 19 it is Jesus affirming the very unit of the TEN Commandments that those at war against the Commandments of God try to attack.

Here is what we do NOT find Jesus saying in Matt 19 "Jesus said ..., it was impossible for him to enter the kingdom of God in this way"

Rather Jesus said - "if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments;"

You seem to be saying that it is possible to enter the kingdom by keeping the commandments.

This is completely opposite to what the Apostle Paul said.

I am not at war with the commandments.
Based on Hebrews chapter 8, there is nothing wrong with the 10 commandments.
There is something wrong with us.

Christ is the only one to ever keep the commandments perfectly.

Gal 4:24　 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—
　

Gal 5:1　 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.　

Gal 5:2　 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
　
Gal 5:3　 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.　

Gal 5:4　 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.　


.

 

[BobRyan]

You seem to be saying that it is possible to enter the kingdom by keeping the commandments.

.

You seem to be "quoting you" instead of me - to get that straw man setup.

If you think I say that keeping the commandments and not the Gospel is the way to heaven -- please show someone saying that - besides you.

 

[BABerean2]

You seem to be "quoting you" instead of me - to get that straw man setup.

If you think I say that keeping the commandments and not the Gospel is the way to heaven -- please show someone saying that - besides you.

Here it is.
You quoted part of Matthew chapter 19 and then you quote you at the bottom.

"Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said;Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life 17 And He said to him, Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments; 18 Then he *said to Him, Which ones? And Jesus said,
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself - (Lev 19:18)

In Matt 19 it is Jesus affirming the very unit of the TEN Commandments that those at war against the Commandments of God try to attack.

Here is what we do NOT find Jesus saying in Matt 19 "Jesus said ..., it was impossible for him to enter the kingdom of God in this way"

Rather Jesus said - "if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments;""


Above in gray we find you, quoting you and stating what you said Jesus meant, in your words. You are implying that it is not impossible to enter the kingdom of God by keeping the commandments. If that is not what you meant to say, then please explain it.

.

 

[Truthfrees]

Keeping the commandments of God MAY be a sign of someone's love for God, or it may be a sign of self-righteousness. John 14:15, 1 John 5:2-4

We can't know for sure another's motive for keeping the commandments of God.

We can only look at our own motives.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Concerning motives, what is written about motives all through the epistles ?
How did all the assemblies walk and live "IN UNION WITH Y'SHUA(JESUS)" and
"Judge Righteously" as Y'SHUA said to ?

Keeping the commandments of God MAY be a sign of someone's love for God, or it may be a sign of self-righteousness. John 14:15, 1 John 5:2-4
We can't know for sure another's motive for keeping the commandments of God.

 

[Truthfrees]

Concerning motives, what is written about motives all through the epistles ?
How did all the assemblies walk and live "IN UNION WITH Y'SHUA(JESUS)" and
"Judge Righteously" as Y'SHUA said to ?

Amen!

1 Samuel 16:7, 1 Corinthians 11:31, Matthew 7:1-3, Romans 2:1

 

[Bob S]

And the commandments of God are: 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us. 1Jn3

All else is serving the past. All the laws of a ritual nature from the old covenant are history. Christians are to serve Jesus in the new way with a humble spirit.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Not even referring to the other continuing mistakes,
just to this part of post \|/, so what? They* aren't.

Christians are to serve Jesus in the new way with a humble spirit.

They* don't even know how, since abandoning and opposing YHWH'S WORD for centuries.


*the worldly, carnal, rebellious ones.
The remnant is still faithful, no matter where they are, in every place.

 

[Truthfrees]

And the commandments of God are: 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us. 1Jn3

All else is serving the past. All the laws of a ritual nature from the old covenant are history. Christians are to serve Jesus in the new way with a humble spirit.

I used to believe this way too until I looked closer at what Jesus said:

Matthew 5:17-20
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the religious leaders, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

And Paul said this:
Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

A closer in context examination of Paul's letters reveals that he really taught us to continue with God's laws the way God wanted us to, and dispense with man's way of keeping God's laws.

Jesus clarified by telling us to keep God's laws from a heart that loves God and loves man: Matthew 22:40

 

[BABerean2]

I used to believe this way too until I looked closer at what Jesus said:

Matthew 5:17-20
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the religious leaders, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

And Paul said this:
Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

A closer in context examination of Paul's letters reveals that he really taught us to continue with God's laws the way God wanted us to, and dispense with man's way of keeping God's laws.

Jesus clarified by telling us to keep God's laws from a heart that loves God and loves man: Matthew 22:40

Heb 7:12　 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.　


Gal 3:17　 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.　
Gal 3:18　 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.　
Gal 3:19　 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.



Gal 4:24　 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—　

Gal 4:30　 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN."　
Gal 4:31　 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.


Heb 8:13　 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.　
　
　

 

[Truthfrees]

Heb 7:12　 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.　


Gal 3:17　 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.　
Gal 3:18　 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.　
Gal 3:19　 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.



Gal 4:24　 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—　

Gal 4:30　 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN."　
Gal 4:31　 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

.　
　

Agreed!

But the Torah has more uses than just those you pointed out.

This is why there are clear statements to establish the law AND statements about using the law properly:
1 Timothy 1:8
We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.

Paul's biggest focus was on the WRONG use of the law.

Can one earn salvation/go to heaven by using the law [Torah-God's Holy Laws] self-righteously? No.

Can one live a life pleasing to the Lord by using the law [Torah] by faith and grace? Yes.

SALVATION always has been and always will be a gracious merciful work of the Lord God Almighty, not any work of the flesh. Jonah 2:9, Psalms 27:1, Psalms 62:1, Isaiah 53

Jesus said: John 5:39
You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!

This proves that Torah has many GOOD uses, but earning Salvation is not one of them.

 

[BABerean2]

Can one live a life pleasing to the Lord by using the law [Torah] by faith and grace? Yes.

No.

You can never follow the law in a way that will meet the standard of God.


You must place your faith in Christ for that.

However, is adultery acceptable among believers? No. But, Christ must come first.

The Spirit that lives in us produces the power to overcome sin, such as adultery.



.

 

[Bob S]

I used to believe this way too until I looked closer at what Jesus said:

Matthew 5:17-20
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the religious leaders, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

It is very interesting the way each of us see the same scripture in different ways. I see Matt 5:17-19 as telling us that until I complete my work on this Earth and return to the Father in Heaven the old covenant will stand. When My work is completed then my people will not be under the laws I gave Israel.

We can see this in all of Paul's writings, especially we see it in all the verses BaBerean posted and 1Cor 3:7-11 where Paul writes that the 10 commandments were temporary laws and have been replaced by the Holy Spirit.That is as plain as the nose on my face brother. Col 2 tells us that the Sabbath and feasts are shadows. Why would anyone want to worship shadows.

Lastly, if you truly believe that the Torah has not been fulfilled then you are obligated to keep all of the Torah which would include sacrifices and all of the other 613 laws that pertained to Torah. Not one jot or one tittle shall pass from the Torah.... Are you really prepared to observe all the law? Part of the Torah was to build the Temple. Are you rebuilding it or making excuses like all the other old covenant believers I have asked the same question?

And Paul said this:
Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Paul wrote that the law is the schoolmaster that brings us to Christ. All that the law can do is condemn, yet some would have us believe that their interpretation of how we should observe Torah is salvational. Grace becomes void. Salvation becomes someone's idea of good works.

A closer in context examination of Paul's letters reveals that he really taught us to continue with God's laws the way God wanted us to, and dispense with man's way of keeping God's laws.

Jesus clarified by telling us to keep God's laws from a heart that loves God and loves man: Matthew 22:40

I really do not agree as you can see. Jesus said that we should keep His commands just like He kept His Father's commands. He only gave us two new commands and that is to love others as He loves us and keep the Lord's Supper. Pretty tall command isn't it.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yes, and most people don't even take the first step.

Love is always with / or is/ joyful willingly trusting obedience to YHWH.

 

[BABerean2]

Love is always with / or is/ joyful willingly trusting obedience to YHWH.

Only His Son did this...

.

 

[Truthfrees]

It is very interesting the way each of us see the same scripture in different ways. I see Matt 5:17-19 as telling us that until I complete my work on this Earth and return to the Father in Heaven the old covenant will stand. When My work is completed then my people will not be under the laws I gave Israel.

We can see this in all of Paul's writings, especially we see it in all the verses BaBerean posted and 1Cor 3:7-11 where Paul writes that the 10 commandments were temporary laws and have been replaced by the Holy Spirit.That is as plain as the nose on my face brother. Col 2 tells us that the Sabbath and feasts are shadows. Why would anyone want to worship shadows.

Lastly, if you truly believe that the Torah has not been fulfilled then you are obligated to keep all of the Torah which would include sacrifices and all of the other 613 laws that pertained to Torah. Not one jot or one tittle shall pass from the Torah.... Are you really prepared to observe all the law? Part of the Torah was to build the Temple. Are you rebuilding it or making excuses like all the other old covenant believers I have asked the same question?


Paul wrote that the law is the schoolmaster that brings us to Christ. All that the law can do is condemn, yet some would have us believe that their interpretation of how we should observe Torah is salvational. Grace becomes void. Salvation becomes someone's idea of good works.


I really do not agree as you can see. Jesus said that we should keep His commands just like He kept His Father's commands. He only gave us two new commands and that is to love others as He loves us and keep the Lord's Supper. Pretty tall command isn't it.

Jesus said until heaven and earth pass away.

Heaven and earth have not passed away yet.

Also Jesus said until all things are complete.

Jesus has not returned yet so all things are not complete.

Worship of God is all anyone was ever told to do.

No one worships the Torah, they love the Torah because it is the words of God's mouth.

Disregarding anything God said over a misunderstanding of what Paul said is a mistake.

There's a lot of misunderstandings which call for a closer examination of scripture in context.

The 3 scriptures I gave are sufficient to indicate that there needs to be a re-evaluation of what Paul was really saying.

 

[Truthfrees]

No.

You can never follow the law in a way that will meet the standard of God.


You must place your faith in Christ for that.

However, is adultery acceptable among believers? No. But, Christ must come first.

The Spirit that lives in us produces the power to overcome sin, such as adultery.



.

Agreed, but you are still talking about Torah keeping for salvation.

Torah keeping for a right way to live was one of the good purposes of Torah.

God gave Torah, so following Torah for sure would please Him.

There is no instruction from God the Father or God the Son to stop keeping Torah.

Torah has not and will not pass away until heaven and earth pass away.

Paul quotes Torah extensively in all his "commands" to Gentile Christians.

If you have a cross reference Bible, look at Paul's instructions about what to do or not do, and every one of them are a quote of Torah.

Here's an excellent table that does it for you: http://www.kalvesmaki.com/LXX/NTChart.htm

Here's a really good web page listing the 613 laws, grouping them by category: http://www.gospeloutreach.net/613laws.html

Look at the wisdom, fairness, thoughtfulness of each of God's laws.

If everyone kept the PURITY LAWS there would have been no black plague in 1348 or staff disease in hospitals today or epidemics in 3rd world countries.

If everyone stopped eating carnivores and scavengers, think of how their health would improve.

If everyone followed the WORSHIP OF YAHWEH LAWS, we'd all be spiritual giants.

If everyone followed the DUTIES TO OUR FELLOWMAN LAWS this world would be a wonderful place to live.

Many of the JUDGEMENT and LAWSUIT LAWS are already a part of our civil laws, which could be dramatically improved if we'd add ALL of God's civil laws into our civil laws.

Think of the true justice we'd have in our courts if the judges followed GOD'S LAWS FOR THE CONDUCT OF JUDGES.

NOTE: this web page is trying to tell us NOT to follow God's laws today. Ignore that part. Just use the list to see what types of laws there are. I chose this list because it did the best job of clarifying what kinds of laws God gave.

As you can see, there's different laws for different purposes. Not every law is for every person.

It's rewarding to find out what God asks of us, and then do it. The benefits of applying God's wisdom to our daily life is outstanding. 1 Peter 1:16

Can you do all the ones that apply to you? Eventually, but first you have to start by adding one at a time as Acts of the Apostles 15 says.

I started with Sabbath laws and food laws and saw excellent results immediately.

Doing the laws with joy and faith for the love of God is powerful. Doing them for salvation (self-righteousness) is impossible, because the minute you break one you've broken them all, and there goes your salvation (self-righteousness).

If you're doing them for the love of God, and you slip up, you can ask God to help you and go at it again. What beginner doesn't make mistakes? What pro doesn't make mistakes? The laws are for our benefit, not our bondage.

Are the laws a duty and obligation for us? No, they are the wisdom of the Eternal God who created us and loves us and gives us His OPERATING INSTRUCTIONS for the best life here on earth.

Did Jesus cancel the laws? No. He gave us instructions on faith, joy, and love so that we apply the laws properly. Laws without faith, joy, and love are bondage.

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus said until heaven and earth pass away.

Heaven and earth have not passed away yet.

And even then -- it will still not be right to take God's name in vain.