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7trees

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Just to point out:
1.Catholics don't ascribe to Once Saved Always Saved.
2. Hitler repudiated his Catholicism, so is technically an Apostate when presented with the book the Origins of National Socialism by a Catholic Bishop.
3. Stalin was raised Orthodox, not Catholic, but became an Atheist.

This is a bit of specious argumentation here. Lets talk of human love then, but remember to a Christian human love is basically a pale imitation of the real thing, Divine Love, so you picked a topic that will likely be easily and quickly derailed toward God.
Love is a fixed will that seeks always to do the greatest good. There must be a pure motive.

A person that does good things with a motive of wanting praise- even from their self may do social good but is not truly benevolent.

Also hate can be good or bad. Hate and bitterness from impure and selfish motives is bad but hatred of evil, without bitterness, from a motive of pure love of good is both good and just...

This gives you the basic underlying structure of love but there are many other layers such as psychology, emotion, sacrifice and so on.

Also: Stalin and Hitler both were socialists, had a pact during the first half of WWII; were social Darwinists and antichrists. The national socialists started replacing Easter and Christmas celebrations with Pagan, Thor and Odin, ones...
 
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7trees

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Also in divine love in the human heart there is a sense of loving everyone. Even if there has been a heated debate and a true believer is hated- when they pull back and consider everything the believer still feels love for everyone.
 
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smithed64

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Conscience is evidence of conscience. A necessary tool for survival. You have to determine how your behavior affects others so you know if you need to run.

Here's an analogy with your logic. I claim aliens are eating babies on planet Eureka. You deny aliens are eating babies on Planet Eureka therefor you know it's true. You don't have to believe but because you deny it you know it.

Why are you worried about my soul?

Because, you have sin in your life. We all do. The difference is I'm saved by grace. That sin is what God is going to judge, doesn't matter what you believe or disbelieve, the same goes for me. What matters is what you believe to be true?
We both know we have a conscience. We both know that lying, stealing, adultery, and blasphemy is wrong, or something you ought not do. These things are the laws that God placed before us and in our hearts.
When you break just one of these laws. Your called a transgressor of God's law...a sinner.
God loves us, yes, God is good, yes, because He is good and loves us, He must also be just. To judge us of our sins. Me, I won't have to worry about that. Because I have repented and placed my Trust in Him.
You, have a decision. I know you don't believe, but that doesn't matter, If God is true, then you'll face Him on judgment day.

Don't want ya to do that without Christ. He's our advocate. He did something for you and me. So that there Is away out of facing an angry God.
 
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junebug72

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Because, you have sin in your life. We all do. The difference is I'm saved by grace. That sin is what God is going to judge, doesn't matter what you believe or disbelieve, the same goes for me. What matters is what you believe to be true?
We both know we have a conscience. We both know that lying, stealing, adultery, and blasphemy is wrong, or something you ought not do. These things are the laws that God placed before us and in our hearts.
When you break just one of these laws. Your called a transgressor of God's law...a sinner.
God loves us, yes, God is good, yes, because He is good and loves us, He must also be just. To judge us of our sins. Me, I won't have to worry about that. Because I have repented and placed my Trust in Him.
You, have a decision. I know you don't believe, but that doesn't matter, If God is true, then you'll face Him on judgment day.

Don't want ya to do that without Christ. He's our advocate. He did something for you and me. So that there Is away out of facing an angry God.

Hold on there. There is this doctrine called the trinity. This doctrine states that Jesus was God /Yahweh in human form. One entity: father, son, holy ghost. True or false?

I am not a sinner and I find it offensive you say so. I think you don't like humans either. I am not afraid of your self projection of a god.

I disagree that eternal torture is just for finite decisions.

BTW you have still not offered up this evidence you claim to have even though you say you care about my soul.

I find this tactic of fear mongering immoral.
 
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smithed64

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Hold on there. There is this doctrine called the trinity. This doctrine states that Jesus was God /Yahweh in human form. One entity: father, son, holy ghost. True or false?

I am not a sinner and I find it offensive you say so. I think you don't like humans either. I am not afraid of your self projection of a god.

I disagree that eternal torture is just for finite decisions.

BTW you have still not offered up this evidence you claim to have even though you say you care about my soul.

I find this tactic of fear mongering immoral.

Yes there is the trinity.

So your not a sinner?

Have you ever lied? If you have, it's called a liar, and all liars will be thrown into the lake of fire
Have you ever stolen? If you have then your a thief.
Jesus said that if you look at someone with lust that you've committed adultery in your heart already? Have you lusted after someone? If you have then that's called adultery. Because God not only sees what you do, he knows the intention of your heart.
Have you ever used God's name in vain? If so, then that's blasphemy, taking God the creators name and using it as a cuss word. God said that He in know way let the guilty go free.

Breaking God's law is called transgressing His law. This is the definition of sin.

1 John 3:4 Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness.

These are only 4 of the 10 commandments. If you've broken one you've broke them all.

And as I've said, don't have to prove it. You already know it. You just don't want to believe it, you deny it by covering the knowledge of God by your unrighteousness.

The bible puts it this way. You are in darkness, Christ is the light, you fear the light, because it will show your sins. So therefore you stay in the darkness.

Your pride stops you and you don't seek Him out.

Psalms 10:4 In the pride of his face the wicked does not seek him;
all his thoughts are, “There is no God.”

I am a sinner saved by grace. Placing my trust in Christ.
 
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Jack of Spades

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Hello. My name is JB for short. I am extremely interested in how you as an individual define; LOVE.

I define love as do no harm, want the best for you always, laughter and security. If you need food and I have some I will share it with you; the same for water.

Forgiveness, empathy, nurture, sharing are some other examples of how we can show love, IMO.

Things I don't consider love: anger, wrath, betrayal, cruelty, chaos, violence, lies...

Hello! My thoughts on love, as a quick summary:

I think love is more or less a synonyme for goodwill, compassion and things like that. Love is the force behind all the qualities that make us care, commit, build, cherish, respect, protect and give.

As a theist, I also believe that it is possible for a human to be inspired by God's love, and reflect God's love momentarily, like a mirror. In our human nature, we can love, but in our spiritual nature, we can sometimes become channels for Gods love.
 
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sunshine456

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The bible, the scriptures; the word of GOD the heavenly father have many examples presented that describe and define love, and in general if you see truthfully the entire bible is about love. Love of GOD for us that he gave us life, gave us his only begotten son JESUS CHRIST and WISDOM.

Love is found with the spirit nature; while the opposite is found within the perimeters of the flesh nature or false love and corruption.

Galatians 5:13-25King James Version (KJV)
13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, sedition's, heresies,
21 Envying s, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

I like to believe in the motto that if you truly love someone you will do no harm to them.

Praise be to GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
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Galatea

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i don't think you like humans.
I love humans, but I love imperfectly as I am human and impefect myself. I have been loved and am loved, but imperfectly as the ones who loved me or love me are humans and imperfect.
I do not expect people who love me to never not hurt me, nor do I expect myself to never not hurt them. What I do expect is for me to forgive when hurt and for them to forgive me when I hurt them. This is love to me, forgiveness and restoration. If someone is unable to forgive me and restore our relationship to what it once was, then the person does not love me. If I am unwilling to forgive and restore the relationship to what it was before, then that would mean I do not love the person.
 
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junebug72

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Yes there is the trinity.

So your not a sinner?

Have you ever lied? If you have, it's called a liar, and all liars will be thrown into the lake of fire
Have you ever stolen? If you have then your a thief.
Jesus said that if you look at someone with lust that you've committed adultery in your heart already? Have you lusted after someone? If you have then that's called adultery. Because God not only sees what you do, he knows the intention of your heart.
Have you ever used God's name in vain? If so, then that's blasphemy, taking God the creators name and using it as a cuss word. God said that He in know way let the guilty go free.

Breaking God's law is called transgressing His law. This is the definition of sin.

1 John 3:4 Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness.

These are only 4 of the 10 commandments. If you've broken one you've broke them all.

And as I've said, don't have to prove it. You already know it. You just don't want to believe it, you deny it by covering the knowledge of God by your unrighteousness.

The bible puts it this way. You are in darkness, Christ is the light, you fear the light, because it will show your sins. So therefore you stay in the darkness.

Your pride stops you and you don't seek Him out.

Psalms 10:4 In the pride of his face the wicked does not seek him;
all his thoughts are, “There is no God.”

I am a sinner saved by grace. Placing my trust in Christ.

It is not pride but modesty. I'm not insulting you. You are insulting me and that will never ever ever change my mind. If you can come up with a more loving perception of god I might bite. I will not even nibble on YOUR cruel perception. Do you call people names? You sure do. Name calling is for children.

You do know you're talking to a complete stranger; don't you?

That verse is not in the 10 commandments of Exodus; Moses Laws. I don't believe Moses, if he existed, got commandments from Yahweh. An Intelligent Super Duper being would not contradict itself. Moses killed a lot of people, livestock, and children along with taking land and young virgins captive "claiming" it was ordered by Yahweh/El/Allah. They made their captives wives. icky! icky! icky!

The Jews say Canaan was abandoned and no blood was shed and no land land was stolen. They say the first 5 books are all metaphorical. It is their Masterpiece, right? They should know. They are the chosen ones.

You are judging me. I think I recall Jesus saying that's not your place. You think you are God. Whoa!

Jesus said beware of false doctrine I think you missed that advice.

Let's say for a moment and you are right that God implanted conscience in me to determine His will. It is that very conscience that can not except the bible as a moral guide or Yahweh a moral entity.

I have been down on my knees in despair begging God to ease my suffering, begging God to cure cancer. I've searched and I did NOT find.

A kind, compassionate, empathetic and loving God would be fine with just letting me no longer exist when I die. No heaven no Hell just non existence, Like I was before I was born; unaware. That brings me peace now while I'm aware. Surely a God that loves me would want me to have peace.

WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO JUDGE ME????????? You're asking me to consider your God and my moral sense of right and wrong says no way. Not only would it hurt myself to believe in this cruel deity but it will also hurt others. Like you're hurting me now, a little bit but still. It hurt me for years 15. I can't say no good came from believing in a God of Love but then our individual perceptions of love vary and God's attributes are all over the place. WoW

A reasonable explanation to these contradicting attributes is that we know nothing about God. It has not revealed itself to anybody, if it even exists at all. God is a composition of different human attributes except the omni stuff and we can not know this about a God. We puny little humans can not KNOW anything about a being as super duper powerful as a God. Moses thought he knew God's will, it was his will, his thoughts, his ideas, his ego, his chaos. That's just my perception of the character because there is no evidence that Moses actually existed.

Respectful Jews say they are metaphorical; the first 5 books.
 
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junebug72

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Hello! My thoughts on love, as a quick summary:

I think love is more or less a synonyme for goodwill, compassion and things like that. Love is the force behind all the qualities that make us care, commit, build, cherish, respect, protect and give.

As a theist, I also believe that it is possible for a human to be inspired by God's love, and reflect God's love momentarily, like a mirror. In our human nature, we can love, but in our spiritual nature, we can sometimes become channels for Gods love.

Jack of Spades you seem like a nice guy. Don't you think Love is at the top and these other emotions a subset. Love is not a synonym. At least not the kind of love I'm talking about. It is the word that has the synonyms and anger nor wrath are in there.

Thanks for sharing.
 
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smithed64

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It is not pride but modesty. I'm not insulting you. You are insulting me and that will never ever ever change my mind. If you can come up with a more loving perception of god I might bite. I will not even nibble on YOUR cruel perception. Do you call people names? You sure do. Name calling is for children.

No, I'm sorry. But insulting you would be to lie to you. The scriptures I've shown you are not my perception but God's.
I will not create a false god for you. You have already done that. I'm sorry that you have.

You do know you're talking to a complete stranger; don't you?

No, I'm talking to someone who is hurting and lost. To someone who is in the darkness of their own life. Someone who needs to hear the truth of God's word and His love. Because He loves you, he sent His Son so that you might be saved. So that you can repent of your sins and place your trust in Him. Not me.

That verse is not in the 10 commandments of Exodus; Moses Laws. I don't believe Moses, if he existed, got commandments from Yahweh. An Intelligent Super Duper being would not contradict itself. Moses killed a lot of people, livestock, and children along with taking land and young virgins captive "claiming" it was ordered by Yahweh/El/Allah. They made their captives wives. icky! icky! icky!

Doesn't matter what you believe. What matters is what you believe to be true? Moses was real, He did write the Pentateuch, the first 5 books. And He is the shadowing of Christ. How a man would come to this earth, to rescue His people and bring them out of slavery. Right now, those that are lost are slaves to sin and death. Christ came to remove those chains of bondage off us.

The Jews say Canaan was abandoned and no blood was shed and no land land was stolen. They say the first 5 books are all metaphorical. It is their Masterpiece, right? They should know. They are the chosen ones.

You are mischaracterizing the Jews, quite badly. I'm sure they have their skeptics, just as Christianity does. And the skeptics are wrong.

You are judging me. I think I recall Jesus saying that's not your place. You think you are God. Whoa!

I'm judging what I read. I don't know you personally. And even if I did, I would still judge you by what you say and do. Just as you are judging me right now. I'd also judge you by any fruit that you may bear. And if what you say here is an example...you have none.

No, I don't think I'm God. But I do serve God and am a Son of God, because I've been like many others adopted into His kingdom.

Jesus said beware of false doctrine I think you missed that advice.

Nope, nothing false. It's all scripture.

Let's say for a moment and you are right that God implanted conscience in me to determine His will. It is that very conscience that can not except the bible as a moral guide or Yahweh a moral entity.

He didn't implant your conscience to determine His will. Your conscience let's you know that there is right and wrong. That lying is wrong and against God, the same with stealing, murder, adultery, coveting, dishonoring your parents and many others. You know you ought to do good. But we can't. On our own do so. Because we on our own are not good. Nor are we righteous.

I have been down on my knees in despair begging God to ease my suffering, begging God to cure cancer. I've searched and I did NOT find.

I'm sorry that you have not been cured. It's a hard thing to go thru. He has answered your prayer...sometimes He says, No.

A kind, compassionate, empathetic and loving God would be fine with just letting me no longer exist when I die. No heaven no Hell just non existence, Like I was before I was born; unaware. That brings me peace now while I'm aware. Surely a God that loves me would want me to have peace.

Nope, because He loves His creation, He wants his creation to be with Him and to have the joy of living eternally with Him. Just as a parent loves to have their children around them, even when they are grown.
If you die in your sins, of which I pray you repent, you will get what you want plus more. You will get an eternal life of no God, no life, no love, no hope. In place for that you will get the torment of Hell, knowing that you didn't have to be there.


WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO JUDGE ME????????? You're asking me to consider your God and my moral sense of right and wrong says no way. Not only would it hurt myself to believe in this cruel deity but it will also hurt others. Like you're hurting me now, a little bit but still. It hurt me for years 15. I can't say no good came from believing in a God of Love but then our individual perceptions of love vary and God's attributes are all over the place. WoW

The same right you have to judge me. Which you are also doing.
It isn't your moral sense of right and wrong that says no way. It's your pride and self righteousness and sin that says no way.
I don't know what happened to you for 15 years. You sound like someone who was told to put on the parachute for the wrong reasons.


Here is a story of two airplane passengers who are both told to
wear a parachute, but for different reasons.

The first passenger is told to put the parachute on because it
would improve his flight. He is skeptical at first but decides to give
it a try and puts the parachute on. Immediately he feels its weight
upon his shoulders and how difficult it is to sit upright. The other
passengers begin to look at him and laugh, mocking him. At this
he pulls off the parachute and throws it to the ground in disgust.
His heart is filled with bitterness toward those who gave him the
parachute because, as far as he’s concerned, he was told an
outright lie. And it will be a LONG time before anyone gets one of
those things on his back again.

The second passenger was told to put the parachute on because
at any moment throughout the flight he would have to jump out of
the plane at 25,000 ft. He gladly puts the parachute on, not
noticing its weight upon his shoulders nor the other passengers
mocking him. His mind is consumed with the thought of what
would happen to him if he were to jump without that parachute.


In the same way, you were told that
you needed to accept Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior and if you
did he would receive love, joy, peace and lasting happiness - you
would come for the wrong motive and would very likely fall away
being likened as a stony ground hearer, receiving the word with
joy and gladness but not having roots enough to stand. You would
put on the Savior in an experimental manner to see if the claims
are true. Then, when the promised persecution and tribulation
comes you would likely fall away. In essence you have been told that
Jesus would improve your flight and when the flight gets bumpy you
became bitter, casting off the savior and resenting those that had
told you this “good news”.

But that isn't the way it is. You put on Christ and trust Him. Like you would a parachute. Knowing that when that time comes to jump. Then you'll know for sure that He will be there and you will be with Him for eternity.


A reasonable explanation to these contradicting attributes is that we know nothing about God. It has not revealed itself to anybody, if it even exists at all. God is a composition of different human attributes except the omni stuff and we can not know this about a God. We puny little humans can not KNOW anything about a being as super duper powerful as a God. Moses thought he knew God's will, it was his will, his thoughts, his ideas, his ego, his chaos. That's just my perception of the character because there is no evidence that Moses actually existed.

We can know a lot about who God is and His attributes. Through His Word and have that personal relationship with Him. He wants us to know Him and He wants to know us.
There are mysteries of God, that we won't know until we get to glory with Him. But all in all, we know plenty about Him.
There's evidence that Moses existed. Written and Historical.
But believing he existed has no bearing on the condition of your soul or salvation.

If you have sinned. And you have, because we all have. Then those sins need to be cleansed. And they are cleansed through repenting of them and placing our trust in Jesus.
Jesus came to die for our sins. To take them to the cross, yet he didn't sin. He paid the fine for us. So that we didn't get what we truly deserve. Because we are not good, nor righteous and we sin. We deserve Hell.
And because God is good and loves us, He must punish sin. You can't be good and loving without being just also.
Your conscience knows this to be true. Please listen to your conscience.
If you have lied, stolen, used God's name in vain, adultery. You have already shown you've broken the first commandment of thou shalt not have any other god before me.
Repent of the sins the law shows you. Place your trust in Him and He will righteously and justly forgive you of your sins and save you from the wrath of God.



Respectful Jews say they are metaphorical; the first 5 books.

No, skeptical Jews say this.

They are God's words.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Hello JB,

Hello. My name is JB for short. I am extremely interested in how you as an individual define; LOVE.
That's an interesting road of inquiry ... I'm not sure there is a formula by which I define love; so, I may have difficulty in sharing with you how I go about "defining" this psycho-social entity.

I first have to ask myself, "From whence comes an exacting conceptual pattern by which I might model 'love'? Or, do I just make this up on my own as I go ... ?"

I define love as do no harm, want the best for you always, laughter and security. If you need food and I have some I will share it with you; the same for water.

Forgiveness, empathy, nurture, sharing are some other examples of how we can show love, IMO.
You sound like a sweet person, JB. :)

Things I don't consider love: anger, wrath, betrayal, cruelty, chaos, violence, lies...
You have a compelling point. I don't think any of us enjoy being on the receiving end of the kinds 'acts' you've listed. They are painful.

Again, I can't say that I have some formula for love; nor can I affirm that I have a comprehensive intuition as to what 'love' constitutes. I do know that when I was a young man, before I became a Christian, I had a vague notion about the concept of love, one which didn't do much in preventing me from talking back, or even disrespecting my parents; and it was one that thought of 'love' in primarily sexual terms, which leaves little to the development of those positive qualities that you nicely listed in your own definition of love.

When I became a Christian and encountered the figure of Jesus in the New Testament, along with the rest of the New Testament, I came to see that I wasn't a person with a very expansive understanding of love, nor did I care enough about other people. Since that time, I've had a lot to work on in my own attempts to be "loving," it seems ...

Thank you for sharing your clarity on the subject, JB.

Peace, :cool:
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Jack of Spades

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Jack of Spades you seem like a nice guy.

Oh, it's just the beard that makes me look like I could be nice. ;)

Don't you think Love is at the top and these other emotions a subset. Love is not a synonym. At least not the kind of love I'm talking about.

Maybe. I'm not exactly sure how I would define it, as my view on love is more of an impression than a very consistent theory. If I tried to come up with something, I tend to think of it in terms of virtues, love is the one that is the driving force behind all the other virtues. A supervirtue? All the other virtues, such as courage or patience, can do harm instead of good, if not driven by love.

It is the word that has the synonyms and anger nor wrath are in there.

Anger and wrath are not the first qualities that come in mind when I think of love, so I wonder why would you bring them up?

My view on human nature is that all the negative feelings, such as anger or fear, are not evil by their nature, but rather they have some very specific purposes. Those feelings do become a problem if they are excessive, and grow out of their natural roles, though.
 
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junebug72

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No, I'm sorry. But insulting you would be to lie to you. The scriptures I've shown you are not my perception but God's.
I will not create a false god for you. You have already done that. I'm sorry that you have.



No, I'm talking to someone who is hurting and lost. To someone who is in the darkness of their own life. Someone who needs to hear the truth of God's word and His love. Because He loves you, he sent His Son so that you might be saved. So that you can repent of your sins and place your trust in Him. Not me.



Doesn't matter what you believe. What matters is what you believe to be true? Moses was real, He did write the Pentateuch, the first 5 books. And He is the shadowing of Christ. How a man would come to this earth, to rescue His people and bring them out of slavery. Right now, those that are lost are slaves to sin and death. Christ came to remove those chains of bondage off us.



You are mischaracterizing the Jews, quite badly. I'm sure they have their skeptics, just as Christianity does. And the skeptics are wrong.



I'm judging what I read. I don't know you personally. And even if I did, I would still judge you by what you say and do. Just as you are judging me right now. I'd also judge you by any fruit that you may bear. And if what you say here is an example...you have none.

No, I don't think I'm God. But I do serve God and am a Son of God, because I've been like many others adopted into His kingdom.



Nope, nothing false. It's all scripture.



He didn't implant your conscience to determine His will. Your conscience let's you know that there is right and wrong. That lying is wrong and against God, the same with stealing, murder, adultery, coveting, dishonoring your parents and many others. You know you ought to do good. But we can't. On our own do so. Because we on our own are not good. Nor are we righteous.



I'm sorry that you have not been cured. It's a hard thing to go thru. He has answered your prayer...sometimes He says, No.



Nope, because He loves His creation, He wants his creation to be with Him and to have the joy of living eternally with Him. Just as a parent loves to have their children around them, even when they are grown.
If you die in your sins, of which I pray you repent, you will get what you want plus more. You will get an eternal life of no God, no life, no love, no hope. In place for that you will get the torment of Hell, knowing that you didn't have to be there.




The same right you have to judge me. Which you are also doing.
It isn't your moral sense of right and wrong that says no way. It's your pride and self righteousness and sin that says no way.
I don't know what happened to you for 15 years. You sound like someone who was told to put on the parachute for the wrong reasons.


Here is a story of two airplane passengers who are both told to
wear a parachute, but for different reasons.

The first passenger is told to put the parachute on because it
would improve his flight. He is skeptical at first but decides to give
it a try and puts the parachute on. Immediately he feels its weight
upon his shoulders and how difficult it is to sit upright. The other
passengers begin to look at him and laugh, mocking him. At this
he pulls off the parachute and throws it to the ground in disgust.
His heart is filled with bitterness toward those who gave him the
parachute because, as far as he’s concerned, he was told an
outright lie. And it will be a LONG time before anyone gets one of
those things on his back again.

The second passenger was told to put the parachute on because
at any moment throughout the flight he would have to jump out of
the plane at 25,000 ft. He gladly puts the parachute on, not
noticing its weight upon his shoulders nor the other passengers
mocking him. His mind is consumed with the thought of what
would happen to him if he were to jump without that parachute.


In the same way, you were told that
you needed to accept Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior and if you
did he would receive love, joy, peace and lasting happiness - you
would come for the wrong motive and would very likely fall away
being likened as a stony ground hearer, receiving the word with
joy and gladness but not having roots enough to stand. You would
put on the Savior in an experimental manner to see if the claims
are true. Then, when the promised persecution and tribulation
comes you would likely fall away. In essence you have been told that
Jesus would improve your flight and when the flight gets bumpy you
became bitter, casting off the savior and resenting those that had
told you this “good news”.

But that isn't the way it is. You put on Christ and trust Him. Like you would a parachute. Knowing that when that time comes to jump. Then you'll know for sure that He will be there and you will be with Him for eternity.




We can know a lot about who God is and His attributes. Through His Word and have that personal relationship with Him. He wants us to know Him and He wants to know us.
There are mysteries of God, that we won't know until we get to glory with Him. But all in all, we know plenty about Him.
There's evidence that Moses existed. Written and Historical.
But believing he existed has no bearing on the condition of your soul or salvation.

If you have sinned. And you have, because we all have. Then those sins need to be cleansed. And they are cleansed through repenting of them and placing our trust in Jesus.
Jesus came to die for our sins. To take them to the cross, yet he didn't sin. He paid the fine for us. So that we didn't get what we truly deserve. Because we are not good, nor righteous and we sin. We deserve Hell.
And because God is good and loves us, He must punish sin. You can't be good and loving without being just also.
Your conscience knows this to be true. Please listen to your conscience.
If you have lied, stolen, used God's name in vain, adultery. You have already shown you've broken the first commandment of thou shalt not have any other god before me.
Repent of the sins the law shows you. Place your trust in Him and He will righteously and justly forgive you of your sins and save you from the wrath of God.

No, skeptical Jews say this.

They are God's words.
Apologies I did not mean to leave you with the impression I have cancer. I had cancer. I am cured. The people I was speaking of are the children.

Why don't you just let the Holy Spirit come on down here and tell me himself?

You are assuming they are skeptical because they're claim, it interferes with your worldview. Are you a mind reader if so you may be a witch?

You are not bearing any fruit. You know what Jesus did to that fig tree.
 
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junebug72

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Oh, it's just the beard that makes me look like I could be nice. ;)



Maybe. I'm not exactly sure how I would define it, as my view on love is more of an impression than a very consistent theory. If I tried to come up with something, I tend to think of it in terms of virtues, love is the one that is the driving force behind all the other virtues. A supervirtue? All the other virtues, such as courage or patience, can do harm instead of good, if not driven by love.



Anger and wrath are not the first qualities that come in mind when I think of love, so I wonder why would you bring them up?

My view on human nature is that all the negative feelings, such as anger or fear, are not evil by their nature, but rather they have some very specific purposes. Those feelings do become a problem if they are excessive, and grow out of their natural roles, though.

What a refreshing POV.
 
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MehGuy

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I have to say, while I've never really made the connection of love without a mixture of pleasure and pain I have had some dreams where I have fallen in love with a woman in a vanilla romantic sense that included no concept of pain whatsoever.

Strange really. The feeling is still great, just more easy going and smooth I guess. Wish I had more time to analyze it, also it's a little different when you're analyzing emotions from dreams. Why this only happens in dreams I do not know.

Been trying to separate the two in love in real life for about 20 years now. Don't think I was ever successful. Unless you count memories of those dreams I have when I'm awake. Then again, those are usually pretty fractured in retention and I wouldn't say count as true experiences.
 
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Jack of Spades

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I love humans, but I love imperfectly as I am human and impefect myself.
.....
If someone is unable to forgive me and restore our relationship to what it once was, then the person does not love me. If I am unwilling to forgive and restore the relationship to what it was before, then that would mean I do not love the person.

I can't help thinking that this sounds a bit on-off - view on love and forgiveness.

I think it in a way that our capability to forgive and forget is as imperfect as everything else in our human love is. It means that sometimes we love, but can't forgive. Just as we might love, but still be afraid.

I don't see forgiveness as a special case in that regard, it's part of human love, and as such it's just as imperfect as the rest of it.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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Well, keep in mind that God "so loved the WHOLE WORLD" and yet will pour wrath out on it at some point. This punishes the wicked and also removes their influence from His bride. Therefore, one could argue that this is also an act of love even if our fleshly finite minds cannot grasp the weight of it.

The problem here is that the "wicked" also includes those who are perfectly decent human beings, yet simply don't buy into fantastical claims on faith alone in most interpretations of abrahamic religions. Isn't that correct?
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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I think your confusing God's love with His justice.

What justice?

He loved us so much he sent his son to die for us.

Strange kind of love...

So that we might be saved.

How does killing another innocent human being, save anyone?

He loves us so much, he must be just in His judgment of us.

And "just" in this context, means a human sacrifice? Really?
 
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