LDS The 'beginning' of God in Mormonism

[miknik5]

There is way too many spiritual truths hidden in the written WORD of GOD

And every lower sign sand symbol and representation pointed to JESUS

And it is only in JESUS that what is hidden and made known for it is in CHRIST that all these veils and shadows and lower signs and representations are removed and we can even begin to see THE GLORY of GOD in the face of JESUS CHRIST

 

[miknik5]

Read Deuteronomy 18 and tell me the difference between MOSES relationship with GOD and the people's relationship with GOD

 

[miknik5]

You said: "Nope they are not three different persons." (Emphasis mine)
But Trinitarian sources specifically say that they are three persons (see post 551 for list).

You are in direct contradiction to what Trinitarian sources say. You contradict the Athanasian Creed, a foundational mainstream Christian work describing the Trinity.

I will NOT say three "persons". I will say three beings/essences but here's the difference between your above statement and claims of Trinitarians. You left it at that: you said three distinct persons (this what you said) and you never finished the sentence to truly represent what trinitarians actually do believe:

Three distinct beings in ONE FSTHER SON and HOLY SPIRT and they are ONE

ONE GOD...not three

Yoiur offering a portion of what a trinitarian believes actually distorts and misrepresents what a trinitarian believes

 

[Jane_Doe]

I will NOT say three "persons". I will say three beings/essences but here's the difference between your above statement and claims of Trinitarians. You left it at that: you said three distinct persons (this what you said) and you never finished the sentence to truly represent what trinitarians actually do believe:

Three distinct beings in ONE ONE GOD...not three

Yoiur offering a portion of what a trinitarian believes actually distorts and misrepresents what a trinitarian believes

I have been saying 3 persons, with you adamantly disagreeing with me. I have not touched on beings.

If you are willing to agree that we both believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are three different persons (aka the Father is not the Son, nor the Spirit, or any combo therein), then we can move on to talk about beings. But as long as you're telling me that the Son and Spirit are the same person (a modalist view) we can't move on.

 

[miknik5]

The word 'invisible' in the Hebrew does not mean un-see-able. Moses spoke to the spirit Yahweh face to face as a man speaks to his friend. It means un-seen. Idols are seen but Israel had no idol to be seen. So, Yahweh was the un-seen God.

Yes the spirit known as Yahweh which entered the body of the baby Jesus when that mortal body died the spirit left the body and went into the spirit world to preach the gospel to those spirits held captive. After three days He then returned to his own body to raise it up.



Yes spirits can not die as in go into non-existence but it says he was made a quickening spirit.

I have a little theory all of my very own, my Mormon friends will raise their eyebrows. When Adam partook of the fruit it changed his perfect body into a mortal body, there was a physical change. The Lord/Yahweh then placed the flaming sward and the Cherubims in the way so that mankind could not eat of the Tree of Life and live forever.

It says in Rev 2
To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

I believe that when Jesus entered paradise he ordered the removal of that flaming sword and Cherubims and he partook of that fruit making him a quickening spirit. Which I define as one having the power to return to a lifeless body and raise it up to life.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life,

I think and it's only a working theory that we each will partake of that Tree and thus be able to return to our own bodies to raise them up.

On the other hand, this could all be just symbolic and there is no real tree but it represents the love of God. It's okay.



How so?

With regards to the transfiguration. HE showed them HIS GLORY
GOD, by covering over HIS LIKENESS in our COVERING did not conform HIS HOLY GLORY to or compromise HIS HOMY GLORY for man

HE simply covered HIS GLORY

For had HE cone to us in HIS full and HOLY GLORY, all would have perished

Again you say that Moses saw GOD face to face?

I suggest you remember that Moses felt the effects of GOD's HOLY GLORY and had to shield his face from the people lest they look upon the GLORY

No man could just approach GOD. HE had to be called and consecrated by GOD

 

[withwonderingawe]

GOD's WORD is SPIRIT

Moses did not literally and fleshly see GOD face to face

In fact man could see GOD face to face and live

But he spoke "face to face with GOD as a friend speaks to a friend because GOD knew Moses heart, HE knew who Moses was inwardly

so you think Stephen suddenly broke out in metaphoric pros as they were stoning him?

[Staff edit]

" Matt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God"

 

[withwonderingawe]

GOD's WORD is SPIRIT

Moses did not literally and fleshly see GOD face to face

In fact man could see GOD face to face and live

But he spoke "face to face with GOD as a friend speaks to a friend because GOD knew Moses heart, HE knew who Moses was inwardly

In John 6 He's teaching his followers and they are murmuring they don't like what they hear;

Jesus tells them;
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

In this case it means the Holy Ghost, the third member of the Godhead. The Holy Spirit quickens us in our beings it teaches Spirit to spirit, see Rom 8. If you are of the flesh you'll never feel this Holy Spirit teaching you. He's saying the message I'm giving you are carried to you through the Spirit and they will give you life.

I choose to believe in the Bible and believe Moses spoke face to face with Yahweh.

 

[withwonderingawe]

With regards to the transfiguration. HE showed them HIS GLORY
GOD, by covering over HIS LIKENESS in our COVERING did not conform HIS HOLY GLORY to or compromise HIS HOMY GLORY for man

HE simply covered HIS GLORY

For had HE cone to us in HIS full and HOLY GLORY, all would have perished

Again you say that Moses saw GOD face to face?

I suggest you remember that Moses felt the effects of GOD's HOLY GLORY and had to shield his face from the people lest they look upon the GLORY

No man could just approach GOD. HE had to be called and consecrated by GOD

Moses and Elijah are both there on the Mount of Transfiguration. These two were both translated rather than suffering death, it's what Jude was talking about in verse 9. So they still had their physical bodies. And yes the glory of God came down upon these three men.

You have to add a whole lot more in there than what is written to come up with whatever you are trying to say.

 

[miknik5]

I have been saying 3 persons, with you adamantly disagreeing with me. I have not touched on beings.

If you are willing to agree that we both believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are three different persons (aka the Father is not the Son, nor the Spirit, or any combo therein), then we can move on to talk about beings. But as long as you're telling me that the Son and Spirit are the same person (a modalist view) we can't move on.

Show me where I agreed with you

 

[miknik5]

so you think Stephen suddenly broke out in metaphoric pros as they were stoning him?

[Staff edit]

" Matt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God"

Answer this question for me since you think to trip me up

Do you think that there is literally a lamb looking as if slain though lives before the throne in Heaven?

 

[miknik5]

Moses and Elijah are both there on the Mount of Transfiguration. These two were both translated rather than suffering death, it's what Jude was talking about in verse 9. So they still had their physical bodies. And yes the glory of God came down upon these three men.

You have to add a whole lot more in there than what is written to come up with whatever you are trying to say.

Your just like Peter then. Thinking to build an altar for all three

Though HE did not know what he was saying

 

[Jane_Doe]

Show me where I agreed with you

I believe that the Son, Father, and Spirit are three different persons.
Trinitarian doctrine also believes that Son, Father, and Spirit are three different persons, as outlined in the Athanasian Creed. Trinitarian doctrine and my LDS beliefs are in agreement in this aspect.

Do you believe in the Trinity and agree with me in this aspect as well?

 

[miknik5]

In John 6 He's teaching his followers and they are murmuring they don't like what they hear;

Jesus tells them;
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

In this case it means the Holy Ghost, the third member of the Godhead. The Holy Spirit quickens us in our beings it teaches Spirit to spirit, see Rom 8. If you are of the flesh you'll never feel this Holy Spirit teaching you. He's saying the message I'm giving you are carried to you through the Spirit and they will give you life.

I choose to believe in the Bible and believe Moses spoke face to face with Yahweh.

Ok. I choose to believe that GOD's will and work as stated in John 6 and Deuteronomy 18 regarding THE SON to be sufficient

 

[fatboys]

Ok. I choose to believe that GOD's will and work as stated in John 6 and Deuteronomy 18 regarding THE SON to be sufficient

Jesus is the only way a back to the father. When you say he is Sufficient what do you mean?"

 

[withwonderingawe]

Answer this question for me since you think to trip me up

Do you think that there is literally a lamb looking as if slain though lives before the throne in Heaven?

I think the writers used metaphors like a lamb but then a very real lamb was used in Israel ritual sacrifice.

You seem to have gone so far with your metaphors that even Jesus is a metaphor rather than a real being.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Your just like Peter then. Thinking to build an altar for all three

Though HE did not know what he was saying

Did I say that? are you saying they were not there [staff edit]?

 

[now faith]

Matt 18:16 "...that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established."

Eze 37
15 ¶The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah/the Bible, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim/the Book of Mormon, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 ¶And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 ¶And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

The actual name of the book is;
The Book of Mormon Another Testament of Jesus Christ

1 Nephi 1:34
Great and marvelous are thy works, O Lord God Almighty! Thy throne is high in the heavens, and thy power, and goodness, and mercy are over all the inhabitants of the earth; and, because thou art merciful, thou wilt not suffer those who come unto thee that they shall perish!

Isa 54
"16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument/the Book of Mormon for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy."

To who?
God is not the author of confusion .
What other wittness did Smith have when this Native American came to him?
If your betting your soul on magical rocks,one man's testimony that Christ needed to give more than the grace of the Cross ,you are making God a respecter for persons.
Christ had thousands of witnesses before his atonement , and you are basing your salvation on one man's revelation ?
That he lost and had to rewrite ?
It's all about Jesus Christ not Joseph Smith
Following this dichotomous collection of fables is idolatry.
God will not be mocked.

 

[Paidiske]

MOD HAT ON

This thread is closed for review.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Paidiske]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has been through a clean. ​

Please argue the points under discussion, rather than making personal attacks or flaming one another.​

MOD HAT OFF
​

As an aside, I know there's been lots of discussion as to whether the LDS concept of God seems like that of Gnosticism. I can see the parallel, but actually the discussions of eternal light and so forth seem to me to also have interesting parallels with ideas in Kaballah, and you might find that an interesting point of comparison and contrast.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I believe that the Son, Father, and Spirit are three different persons.
Trinitarian doctrine also believes that Son, Father, and Spirit are three different persons, as outlined in the Athanasian Creed. Trinitarian doctrine and my LDS beliefs are in agreement in this aspect.

Do you believe in the Trinity and agree with me in this aspect as well?

*Bump*
Miknik5 do you believe that the Father/Son/Spirit are 3 different persons, which is part of the Trinity and agree with LDS beliefs?