Did God write Genesis?

[doubtingmerle]

That's what you get for trying to substitute yourself in the place of a person in the Bible, without knowing context, dispensation, or anything else.

Wait. You seemed to be saying there is no harm in setting out to kill your son, as long as you don't kill him. Now you seem to be saying this would indeed be wrong if done today, but not if done in that dispensation. So it really would be wrong to do this today?

Ok, suppose you were living in Abraham's day. If you also heard what Abraham heard, would you set out to kill your son, and indeed kill him if God did not stop it?

 

[AV1611VET]

The wording of this passage is so obscure that even after consulting several other translations I am quite unsure of its meaning.

Even though you put it in quotes and followed it with three question marks?

 

[AV1611VET]

Wait. You seemed to be saying there is no harm in setting out to kill your son, as long as you don't kill him. Now you seem to be saying this would indeed be wrong if done today, but not if done in that dispensation. So it really would be wrong to do this today?

Did I not say it depends on the context?

Ok, suppose you were living in Abraham's day. If you also heard what Abraham heard, would you set out to kill your son, and indeed kill him if God did not stop it?

Would, by coincidence, my name be Abraham, and would I, by coincidence, have an only son named Isaac?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Did I not say it depends on the context?Would, by coincidence, my name be Abraham, and would I, by coincidence, have an only son named Isaac?

Let's say that you live at the same time as the Abraham of Genesis. Your name is Abraham Lincolnlog and you just so happen to also have only one son, Isaac Lincolnlog. You hear what the Abraham of Genesis heard. Would you then set out to kill your son, and if not stopped, kill him?

 

[AV1611VET]

Let's say that you live at the same time as the Abraham of Genesis. Your name is Abraham Lincolnlog and you just so happen to also have only one son, Isaac. You hear what the Abraham of Genesis heard. Would you then set out to kill your son, and if not stopped, kill him?

Of course not.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Of course not.

Ok, so if you were named Abraham Lincolnlog and lived in Abraham's day, you would not respond to hearing what Abraham heard by setting out to kill your son.

But somehow, if Abraham hears the exact same thing as you, Abraham Lincolnlog, you think that Abraham should set out to kill his son.
What's the difference?

 

[AV1611VET]

Ok, so if you were named Abraham Lincolnlog and lived in Abraham's day, you would not respond to hearing what Abraham heard by setting out to kill your son.

But somehow, if Abraham hears the exact same thing as you, Abraham Lincolnlog, you think that Abraham should set out to kill his son.
What's the difference?

Um ... if ten people held up their hand in class, and the instructor picks Joe A, does Joe B respond?

Remember the story of Jesus resurrecting Lazarus?

John 11:43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.

The story goes that, if He had just said COME FORTH ... they would have all come forth.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Um ... if ten people held up their hand in class, and the instructor picks Joe A, does Joe B respond?

Ah, but in our example, you are named Abraham Lincolnlog, and you think you hear God tell you, Abraham Lincolnlog, to kill your son. Do you do it?

 

[AV1611VET]

Ah, but in our example, you are named Abraham Lincolnlog, and you think you hear God tell you, Abraham Lincolnlog, to kill your son. Do you do it?

You keep moving the goalposts here ... refining this discussion.

Now I think He's talking to me?

Do you think your wife is talking to you when she addresses another Merle in the room?

Let's suppose I did think He was talking to me.

I would arrive at Mt. Moriah about the same time as Abraham would, with my coincidentally-named-Isaac son, and basically go through the same motions.

You're turning this into a circus.

 

[doubtingmerle]

You keep moving the goalposts here ... refining this discussion.

Now I think He's talking to me?

For crying out loud, yes! Of course the hypothetical voice is talking to you! Why would I ask you what you would do if the voice was talking to someone else!?!? Hello? No goalpost was moved.

And your response scares me. So you would kill your own son if you thought God wanted you to do it.

You say you would if you lived back then. Would you do it today also?

Sorry, but that would be murder. And murder is wrong. No self respecting God should ask you to kill your son, and you sir, should you ever hear what you think is God telling you to do it, should not kill your son.

Period.

 

[AV1611VET]

So you would kill your own son if you thought God wanted you to do it.

Something would have gone wrong.

Something I know, in retrospect, that you don't have the guts to admit.

Something I got out of the Bible.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Something would have gone wrong.

Something I know, in retrospect, that you don't have the guts to admit.

Something I got out of the Bible.

OK, so if you were living back in Abraham's day, and you heard a voice you thought was God telling you to kill your son, you would know something was wrong, because you get that from the Bible.

ROFL!!!!!!

There wasn't even a Bible in Abraham's day!!!! How would you have known something was wrong?

How many times are you going to bob and weave?

Once more: If you were living in Abraham's day, and you thought God commanded you to kill your son, would you set out to kill him, and if not stopped, actually kill him?

And for good measure, a second question: If God were to command that of you (if you were alive in Abraham's day) would you kill your son whole heartedly, believing that the command was good and moral?

 

[AV1611VET]

Once more: If you were living in Abraham's day, and you thought God commanded you to kill your son, would you set out to kill him, and if not stopped, actually kill him?

And for good measure, a second question: If God were to command that of you (if you were alive in Abraham's day) would you kill your son whole heartedly, believing that the command was good and moral?

I think someone's jealous because God didn't pick him to test.

It bugs you that you didn't get the chance to personally refuse to follow His orders in order to display an act of self-righteous rebellion, doesn't it?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Speaking of competent ... I'll ask again:

What went wrong?

I'll answer again: What went wrong is that Abraham set out to kill his son. That is what went wrong.

It is wrong to kill people. It is wrong to take your son and tie him up on an alter as a sacrifice. It is wrong to raise a knife with the intention of driving it though your son's body to kill him. That is murder, plain and simple.

And murder is wrong.

I repeat murder is wrong.

The problem is that Abraham set out to kill his son, and it is wrong to set out to kill your son.

Got it?

 

[AV1611VET]

None of my business, Merle, but did you have a son that died, and you think God took him?

 

[doubtingmerle]

I think someone's jealous because God didn't pick him to test.

It bugs you that you didn't get the chance to personally refuse to follow His orders in order to display an act of self-righteous rebellion, doesn't it?

ROFL! No, no, no!

Please quite evading the question. You know that killing your son would be wrong. So why not say so: It is wrong to kill your son as a sacrifice to God.

 

[doubtingmerle]

None of my business, Merle, but did you have a son that died, and you think God took him?

No. Please quit evading the question. Once more: It is wrong to kill people as a sacrifice to God. Now will you answer the question?

 

[AV1611VET]

No. Please quit evading the question. Once more: It is wrong to kill people as a sacrifice to God. Now will you answer the question?

A daughter? friend? wife? concubine? anyone? the paper boy? lifeguard at the swimming pool? scientist?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Wow ... excuse me.

I overlooked your self-righteous rebellion.

Shame on me.

So if you were Abraham, you would have what?

Told Him to take a hike?

Yes.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Ah, Abraham was temporarily killing his son. And you have no problem with that? If a man truly thinks his son will rise again, does he then have permission to kill that son? I would say no. Murder is wrong, even when you expect the murdered person to resurrect.

I can see it before me now, at some murder trial...

the accuses: "But mr judge... i fully believed that the murdered victim would resurect after I put a bullet in his brain..."

the judge: "ow, okay... in that case, I guess you should be released and all charges dropped... "