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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

yeshuaslavejeff

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In the dark ages when someone wanted to slander a given denomination with false accusation after false accusation - they simply ignored every Bible text in the discussion and proceeded to "quote themselves" as their "source and reference" for every false accusation that they made.
"the dark ages" which most people don't remember any more,
and is again on earth ...
as written in Revelation "the whole world is deceived"
and "the whole world"(all of it/ all society as always) serves demons and persecutes and condemns anyone who is seeking YHWH(GOD) ,
since as it is written in Ephesians 2 all society is under the prince. (OPPOSED TO JESUS)
 
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bugkiller

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Why don't you quote it and make an actual point before making that false accusation???

In the mean time --


"what matters is KEEPiNG the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

"Do we then make VOID the Law by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish THE Law" Rom 3:31

1 John 5:1-4 (NKJV)
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture,You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

In Protestantism one of the key elements is "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine and practice - and not so much focus on simply "ad hominem" to make a point. As I am sure we would all agree.

So then how is that "Sola Scriptura" testing of all doctrine and tradition stated in the Bible?

Well we find one example of "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine and tradition in Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


===================================

Rejecting the teaching of Christ "is a bad thing"
Because you know of the verse. You refuse to acknowledge exactly what it means to further promote your false doctrine. No that is not a false accusation.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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hint - your need to ignore every text in the post you respond to -- 'noted'.
What is more your bending of the Galatians 3 text is refuted in Genesis 26:5 as we all know by now.26:5.
While you ignore the words of Moses in Deut 5 saying Abraham did not have nor was ever given the law (10 Cs).

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Do we make void the law thru faith?

We establish the law by grace thru faith expressed in love.

No old covenant law keeping required.
No we do not make the law void, but the NC which replaced the OC issued at MT Sinai does.

bugkiller
 
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BABerean2

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Galatians 3 refers to the giving of the Law "in stone" on Sinai - it is not saying that the Law was not already there as stated in Genesis 26:5.

Which commandment in Genesis 26:5?

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Gen_17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

Yes, that would be a commandment from God given to Abraham, but not the 10 commandments as you are implying to promote your doctrine of the bondwoman.

Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.


Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

Thank God that we have the Bible to show what is plainly written in the text.

It reveals all false doctrines for what they really are...



Shut Door Documents from the Estate of Ellen G. White:
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

October 22, 1844 ???

.
 
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BobRyan

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No we do not make the law void, but the NC which replaced the OC issued at MT Sinai does.

bugkiller

until you read the actual Bible and find that you are directly contradicting the Word of God to support your own doctrine.

Rom 3:31 "What then - do we make VOID the law of God?? God forbid!! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

I prefer the BIBLE --
 
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BobRyan

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Because you know of the verse.
bugkiller

I know the verse does not support your doctrine -- do you??

Is that why you can't be nudged into quoting your own proof text that you claim to support your views?????
 
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BobRyan

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Do we make void the law thru faith?

We establish the law by grace thru faith expressed in love.

If you were not holding your Bible at such a distance you would know that the text you are not fully quoting (all the while inserting your own words into it) - is Rom 3:31 and is referencing the OT Law of Rom 3:19-21 that still to this day - defines what sin is - and condemns all mankind as sinners - according to Romans 3.
 
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BobRyan

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While you ignore the words of Moses in Deut 5 saying Abraham did not have nor was ever given the law (10 Cs).
bugkiller

You again "quote you" not the Bible ---(least of all - Deut 5:10)

10 Commandments are – the commandments of God

Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
Law of God” Neh 10:29
5th Commandment: “Word of God” = “Commandment of God” = “Moses said” Mark 7:13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11 includes “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.
NT Commandments Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10
Eph 6:2 “the first commandment with a promise” in the TEN Commandments – is the fifth commandment

“Which Commandments?” – Matt 19:17-19
“‘You shall not murder,’
‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’
‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’
and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

in Detail

Matt 19
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’
‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’
‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’
and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”


=================================

"what matters is KEEPiNG the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

"Do we then make VOID the Law by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish THE Law" Rom 3:31

1 John 5:1-4 (NKJV)
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture,You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

In Protestantism one of the key elements is "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine and practice - and not so much focus on simply "ad hominem" to make a point. As I am sure we would all agree.

So then how is that "Sola Scriptura" testing of all doctrine and tradition stated in the Bible?

Well we find one example of "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine and tradition in Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


===================================

Rejecting the teaching of Christ "is a bad thing"
 
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BobRyan

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now who is avoiding what? I asked you a question about your verse and you claim it is not in the Bible. Absolutely incredible.

bugkiller

That also "never happened" --

State something that is actually true.

Quote the actual Bible.

hint: Participate in some meaningful way.
 
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bloodygrace

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"The SEVENTH day is the SABBATH of the Lord thy God" Exodus 20:10

The Lord's Day!

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words," Is 58:13

The Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath day - Mark 2:28

So also the "Sabbath was made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
From "Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23.



Until you read the actual Bible.

There you find that the "NEW Covenant" includes the LAW of God "written on the heart and mind" - Jeremiah 31:31-33.

And in Ephesians 6:2 we find that the 5th Commandment is the "first commandment with a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN - that scripture calls the "TEN Commandments"

The New Covenant is made with "the house of Israel" and that includes all Christians in Hebrews 8:6-10.


And of course

Ex 20
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.




It is just that Bible-avoidance posts like that - in response to the texts given for this topic - are pretty obvious to all of us.

All you do is spam. You can't even engage in intelligent dialogue.
 
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bloodygrace

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Paul also says that sin was in the world prior to the law being given at Sinai in Romans 5 and sin is not imputed where there is no law. Some type of law other than the commandments has been in place since the beginning. This other law preceded Moses and eventually replaced Moses. Paul uses terms like the law of the Spirit and the law of faith which I am sure you have no clue about.
 
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bbbbbbb

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All you do is spam. You can't even engage in intelligent dialogue.

That is quite true. I have attempted to engage him in intelligent dialogue with a very simple question - When does he intend to begin to keep the commandments of God?
 
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bugkiller

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That is quite true. I have attempted to engage him in intelligent dialogue with a very simple question - When does he intend to begin to keep the commandments of God?
Never, but he attempts or claims to keep his amended version.

bugkiller
 
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JCFantasy23

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