Christianity... and the fact of evolution

[smithed64]

I disagree with much of what you've said. You've asked me questions about why I see things the way I do. Are you really interested in understanding how I arrive at my conclusions, smithed64?

Yeah.

I know you have the truth in you...because God's word never comes back void.

Just want to know why you don't trust that God did it himself, that he didn't do as he said he did...in one day.

Because science isn't the answer, it's a means to get answers. Some of which we will never have until we met God one day and ask Him..."Hey, how did you do that?"

Also because if you witness to someone is lost and they ask you about God and creation. What do you tell them?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Did you read my post? It said "modern" text books. Compared to the 1800's. This hoax should never even have been an option.....Yet, it is right there. Kids that are now in society saw this false depiction. These books were published after the turn of the century or just before..... it's a sure indication of hanging on to untruth.

Perhaps some of it is an indication that people in Western society especially were, and have been, becoming 'ripe' for untruth. What you need to take into account is that most of the dates in the textbooks are of the late 90's, just about the time that Intelligent Design began to become a contender and forced secularists to "double-check" their textbook publishing.

I'll bet if you look at the most recent editions, since textbook publishers put out new editions about every 2 years, you'll probably not find Haeckel's "junk science" still there. You might not even find the "peppered moth" presented without some major overhaul in its articulation. These are just some things to think about.

But, yes, I understand that somewhere in the shadows lurks...the dark shadow of anti-christian rhetoric which you, me, and a host of other Christians personally deplore.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Yeah.

I know you have the truth in you...because God's word never comes back void.

Just want to know why you don't trust that God did it himself, that he didn't do as he said he did...in one day.

Because science isn't the answer, it's a means to get answers. Some of which we will never have until we met God one day and ask Him..."Hey, how did you do that?"

Also because if you witness to someone is lost and they ask you about God and creation. What do you tell them?

So, which version of interpretation regarding Genesis 1 should we go with? Because, there are several that Creationists trot out---andthey can't all be right or considered the "right" one.

If you'd like to understand my view, ....really understand it...then you can read the following article in its entirety. Your comments will be welcomed for discussion if you so choose to read it completely, Brother Smithed64.

http://biologos.org/blogs/archive/the-cosmogonic-form-of-genesis-1

 

[throughfiierytrial]

So, which version of interpretation regarding Genesis 1 should we go with? Because, there are several that Creationists trot out---andthey can't all be right or considered the "right" one.

If you'd like to understand my view, ....really understand it...then you can read the following article in its entirety. Your comments will be welcomed for discussion if you so choose to read it completely, Brother Smithed64.

http://biologos.org/blogs/archive/the-cosmogonic-form-of-genesis-1

Ooooh Philo, you complain wildly that Christians use derogatory terms to describe Christians who hold to evolution yet here you are talking about Christians ...trotting out...versions of Genesis. If you are a Christian you'd realize we hold these our understandings dear and we do not trot them out.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

So, which version of interpretation regarding Genesis 1 should we go with? Because, there are several that Creationists trot out---andthey can't all be right or considered the "right" one.

If you'd like to understand my view, ....really understand it...then you can read the following article in its entirety. Your comments will be welcomed for discussion if you so choose to read it completely, Brother Smithed64.

http://biologos.org/blogs/archive/the-cosmogonic-form-of-genesis-1

We can use other passages to interpret Genesis...
Psalm 33:6-9:
By the word of the Lord the heavens were made,
their starry host by the breath of his mouth.
7 He gathers the waters of the sea into jars;
he puts the deep into storehouses.
8 Let all the earth fear the Lord;
let all the people of the world revere him.
9 For he spoke, and it came to be;
he commanded, and it stood firm.

Thousands of Years Later, same interpretation...
Hebrews 11:3:
By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

Evolution clearly contradicts Scripture.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Ooooh Philo, you complain wildly that Christians use derogatory terms to describe Christians who hold to evolution yet here you are talking about Christians ...trotting out...versions of Genesis. If you are a Christian you'd realize we hold these our understandings dear and we do not trot them out.

But the difference is that I'm not making any sly insinuations that believing any of them (i.e. positions on Genesis 1) necessarily discredits their individual faith in God. Others here ARE insinuating that me, with my perspective, have a less than adequate faith in Christ.

Or, aren't they?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

We can use other passages to interpret Genesis...
Psalm 33:6-9:
By the word of the Lord the heavens were made,
their starry host by the breath of his mouth.
7 He gathers the waters of the sea into jars;
he puts the deep into storehouses.
8 Let all the earth fear the Lord;
let all the people of the world revere him.
9 For he spoke, and it came to be;
he commanded, and it stood firm.

Thousands of Years Later, same interpretation...
Hebrews 11:3:
By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

Evolution clearly contradicts Scripture.

....and, I'm all onboard with affirming that YES, GOD DID IT!!! I'm just not on board with 'how' Christians think He did it. But I don't discount their faith for disagreeing with me.

And no, if Genesis 1 is Cosmogeny and not science, then evolution and Scripture are not by necessity incompatible.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

But the difference is that I'm not making any sly insinuations that believing any of them (i.e. positions on Genesis 1) necessarily discredits their individual faith in God. Others here ARE insinuating that me, with my perspective, have a less than adequate faith in Christ.

Or, aren't they?

Yes, we are saying that you are at war with Christianity.
Also, saying "trotting them out" is derogatory as though we deserve less respect in our views.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

....and, I'm all onboard with affirming that YES, GOD DID IT!!! I'm just not on board with 'how' Christians think He did it. But I don't discount their faith for disagreeing with me.

And no, if Genesis 1 is Cosmogeny and not science, then evolution and Scripture are not by necessity incompatible.

Explain or interpret the passages I quoted then.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Yes, we are saying that you are at war with Christianity.
Also, saying "trotting them out" is derogatory as though we deserve less respect in our views.

So....whether one believes in a literal 6 day creation, or adheres to the Gap Theory, or a Modified Gap Theory, or the Day-Age theory, then they are all true? No, someone is wrong. And this means that someone is trotting out their favorite theory of interpretation; sure, it could be me. It could be you. Or, perhaps you assign a bit more egregious meaning to "trotting out" than I do.

And no, I am not at war with Christianity if I believe and affirm that Jesus Christ died and rose again and is Lord of all. You do not get to sit in judgment over me on matters that pertain to 'creation.'

 

[2PhiloVoid]

We can use other passages to interpret Genesis...

Psalm 33:6-9:
By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, [Comment: this only tells us God did it, it gives no time framework.]
their starry host by the breath of his mouth. [Comment: this simply says that God's power is in His Word.]
7 He gathers the waters of the sea into jars; [Comment: Do we need to take this literally? Jars?]
he puts the deep into storehouses. [Comment: Again, do we need to be literal with poetic phrasing?]
8 Let all the earth fear the Lord;
let all the people of the world revere him. [Comment: Sure. When I see the ocean, view the sun, or stand on the mountain top, I feel awe and reverence!]

9 For he spoke, and it came to be;
he commanded, and it stood firm. [Comment: same as verse 6 above]

Thousands of Years Later, same interpretation...
Hebrews 11:3:
By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. [Comment: all this says is that God made a command and that things that we see came from things that we don't see. It says nothing about 'how' God did it, or what time-frame it took place in.]

 

[KWCrazy]

In another thread I was told by a poster that as a Christian I had to believe the Genesis creation account because the Bible said it so it had to be true. When this poster was asked if he believed communion bread to be the actual body of Jesus he said no because it didn't taste like flesh (despite the plain meaning of the words of our Lord and Savior). I guess we all pick and choose our own interpretation of scripture.

When Jesus offered the body and blood everyone knew it to be a metaphor because he was sitting in their midst. There are many metaphors in the Bible. There is also foundational doctrine. The six day creation is foundational, as evidenced by the fact that it is the fourth great commandment. Jesus spoke of the creation as a literal happening, citing Adam and Eve as the first marriage. It doesn't take much discernment to understand that Genesis is a historical narrative and not a parable. Had God created the world over billions of years He would not have told us otherwise.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

When Jesus offered the body and blood everyone knew it to be a metaphor because he was sitting in their midst. There are many metaphors in the Bible. There is also foundational doctrine. The six day creation is foundational, as evidenced by the fact that it is the fourth great commandment. Jesus spoke of the creation as a literal happening, citing Adam and Eve as the first marriage. It doesn't take much discernment to understand that Genesis is a historical narrative and not a parable. Had God created the world over billions of years He would not have told us otherwise.

Are you sure that God doesn't just have some secrets about physical reality that He doesn't reveal to us?

 

[smithed64]

So, which version of interpretation regarding Genesis 1 should we go with? Because, there are several that Creationists trot out---andthey can't all be right or considered the "right" one.

If you'd like to understand my view, ....really understand it...then you can read the following article in its entirety. Your comments will be welcomed for discussion if you so choose to read it completely, Brother Smithed64.

http://biologos.org/blogs/archive/the-cosmogonic-form-of-genesis-1

There's only one Bible. Genesis 1 is very simple and doesn't need interpreting. It's pretty straight forward.
You can use KJV, NKJV, NIV, ESV or what ever bible you choose. They all pretty much say the same thing.

I've been to biologos.org and read there stuff and still disagree with them.
But will reread what you posted in all fairness.

 

[smithed64]

"Apelike." I will agree with that. Our last common ancestor was probably something like a modern lemur. However AV1611VET claimed that humans are descended from apes. That is incorrect.

Apelike, doesn't mean ape....nor any other animal.

Our first ancestor was Adam....not bonzo...(yeah he was a chimp...couldn't think of any famous ape names...except for king kong)

 

[Archivist]

Apelike, doesn't mean ape....nor any other animal.

Our first ancestor was Adam....not bonzo...(yeah he was a chimp...couldn't think of any famous ape names...except for king kong)

And you are entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to my opinion.

 

[Archivist]

When Jesus offered the body and blood everyone knew it to be a metaphor because he was sitting in their midst. There are many metaphors in the Bible. There is also foundational doctrine. The six day creation is foundational, as evidenced by the fact that it is the fourth great commandment. Jesus spoke of the creation as a literal happening, citing Adam and Eve as the first marriage. It doesn't take much discernment to understand that Genesis is a historical narrative and not a parable. Had God created the world over billions of years He would not have told us otherwise.

And the majority of people who call themselves Christians will tell you that the body and blood of Holy Communion is body and blood, not just a metaphor. Many Christians will likewise agree with me that the Genesis creation account is an allegory not an historical account.

You are, of course, entitled to your interpretation of scripture.

 

[smithed64]

And you are entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to my opinion.

Your absolutely correct.
But one of us is right and one of us is wrong.

 

[Archivist]

Your absolutely correct.
But one of us is right and one of us is wrong.

Yes

 

[throughfiierytrial]

So....whether one believes in a literal 6 day creation, or adheres to the Gap Theory, or a Modified Gap Theory, or the Day-Age theory, then they are all true? No, someone is wrong. And this means that someone is trotting out their favorite theory of interpretation; sure, it could be me. It could be you. Or, perhaps you assign a bit more egregious meaning to "trotting out" than I do.

And no, I am not at war with Christianity if I believe and affirm that Jesus Christ died and rose again and is Lord of all. You do not get to sit in judgment over me on matters that pertain to 'creation.'

Yes, as so many you are unwittingly at war with Christianity...you have taken a bite of that poisonous apple which says I know better.