Sola scriptura

[sculleywr]

Its not a strawman but is the essence of everything you post on this topic.

Of course I have no doubt you will argue about it, because your denominationalism blind you, causing you to stumble around in the dark. I see Christ, you see EO. If only you would share Christ instead of EO. Don't try to say EO is the body either, because you only accuse everyone else of being false, or heretics. Its your denomination that blind, not us. If you could see you would observe Christ in us, instead of the lack of EO.

Thanks for ending the conversation. When you're done beating on your strawman that is not the essence of anything I post, but is the essence of what you WANT me to be saying, let me know.

Now, if you would be so kind as to stop telling me I'm not preaching Christ simply because I believe and declare something you don't believe, that would be Christian of you.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Now, if you would be so kind as to stop telling me I'm not preaching Christ simply because I believe and declare something you don't believe, that would be Christian of you.

Not likely would that be True if he/they/ we did that.

You admitted/ posted you follow what you follow instead of Yeshua.

(kind of the hallmark of most people in most any group.)

If you started to follow Yeshua(you could still stay in the church you're in, at least for a while) instead of who you say you follow,
that
would be the beginning of a wonderful life.

Who you follow is presumably your choice, if Yhwh hasn't already decided it is not your choice any longer because you waited too long and didn't listen when He spoke to you, or because you didn't seek Him while He could be found.

Our(all ekklesia) purpose,

Yhwh's Plan, all in all in Yeshua,

is healing, nurturing, restoring as many as will turn to Yhwh in Yeshua by faith in His Name.

 

[sculleywr]

Not likely would that be True if he/they/ we did that.

You admitted/ posted you follow what you follow instead of Yeshua.

(kind of the hallmark of most people in most any group.)

If you started to follow Yeshua(you could still stay in the church you're in, at least for a while) instead of who you say you follow,
that
would be the beginning of a wonderful life.

Who you follow is presumably your choice, if Yhwh hasn't already decided it is not your choice any longer because you waited too long and didn't listen when He spoke to you, or because you didn't seek Him while He could be found.

I did not say I follow the Orthodox instead of Christ. I said I follow the Orthodox because of Christ. I follow the Orthodox Church because it follows Christ.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I did not say I follow the Orthodox instead of Christ. I said I follow the Orthodox because of Christ. I follow the Orthodox Church because it follows Christ.

Right...
just like everyone else says... (about their group).

Sorry. It doesn't work that way. (not when the group disobeys Christ so often)

IF you choose to follow Christ ,
and if you refuse to disobey Christ whenever anyone asks you to disobey Christ, THEN
you can rightfully say you follow Christ; not before then.

 

[sculleywr]

Right...
just like everyone else says... (about their group).

Sorry. It doesn't work that way. (not when the group disobeys Christ so often)

IF you choose to follow Christ ,
and if you refuse to disobey Christ whenever anyone asks you to disobey Christ, THEN
you can rightfully say you follow Christ; not before then.

You haven't given basis of your slander of any group. The Orthodox Church NEVER asked me to disobey Christ. Just because their teaching isn't the same as your interpretation of Scripture doesn't mean they ask me to disobey Christ. As I see it, you are asking me to disobey Christ by telling me to abandon the Tradition the Apostles taught.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You haven't given basis of your slander of any group. The Orthodox Church NEVER asked me to disobey Christ. Just because their teaching isn't the same as your interpretation of Scripture doesn't mean they ask me to disobey Christ. As I see it, you are asking me to disobey Christ by telling me to abandon the Tradition the Apostles taught.

Not at all - you're not showing any understanding of what Scripture is saying as Yeshua has revealed it to ekklesia.

Remember what the Apostles said: "IF anyone comes, even if it is Paul, Apollos, Peter, John or an appearing as if an angel of light,
DO NOT RECEIVE THEM (this includes all the groups you're thinking of or have mentioned)
IF they bring a message different than the one once for all delivered -
test everything the SAME WAY the Bereans did/do and were blessed for.

BY SCRIPTURE.

IF you accept what anyone says, me or mary had a little lamb or orthodox or protestant or catholic or independent or Paul or an angel of light,
WITHOUT TESTING
then you start off failing. (disobeying Scripture).

It doesn't matter if I or mary had a little lamb or Paul or Apollos or protestant or catholic or John says "we say it so it's true" ....

If you accept that, you've failed already and no one can help you.

(Yhwh says if you trust in man/ flesh/ mankind/ in such a way
looking to them (anyone) for (whatever)
instead of to Yhwh
then Yhwh curses you. (not just you, but anyone who trusts in flesh/ man etc) )

 

[civilwarbuff]

I didn't say Protestants have no Traditions. I said they lack the Apostolic Tradition. I also never made any statement about the Head of the Church as Christ not being their intention. They want Christ as the Head of the Church, however the Christ they have is a Christ of their own design, not the Christ of the Apostles.

So, we are really not Christians because we don't have the "Christ of the Apostles"? If our "Christ" is something of our own design, does that mean we are idolaters?

 

[W2L]

Thanks for ending the conversation. When you're done beating on your strawman that is not the essence of anything I post, but is the essence of what you WANT me to be saying, let me know.

Now, if you would be so kind as to stop telling me I'm not preaching Christ simply because I believe and declare something you don't believe, that would be Christian of you.

Kindly stop saying I'm not following the apostles then.

 

[W2L]

I did not say I follow the Orthodox instead of Christ. I said I follow the Orthodox because of Christ. I follow the Orthodox Church because it follows Christ.

I follow Paul because he follows Christ. So whats your beef?

 

[sculleywr]

Not at all - you're not showing any understanding of what Scripture is saying as Yeshua has revealed it to ekklesia.

Remember what the Apostles said: "IF anyone comes, even if it is Paul, Apollos, Peter, John or an appearing as if an angel of light,
DO NOT RECEIVE THEM (this includes all the groups you're thinking of or have mentioned)
IF they bring a message different than the one once for all delivered -
test everything the SAME WAY the Bereans did/do and were blessed for.

BY SCRIPTURE.

IF you accept what anyone says, me or mary had a little lamb or orthodox or protestant or catholic or independent or Paul or an angel of light,
WITHOUT TESTING
then you start off failing. (disobeying Scripture).

It doesn't matter if I or mary had a little lamb or Paul or Apollos or protestant or catholic or John says "we say it so it's true" ....

If you accept that, you've failed already and no one can help you.

(Yhwh says if you trust in man/ flesh/ mankind/ in such a way
looking to them (anyone) for (whatever)
instead of to Yhwh
then Yhwh curses you. (not just you, but anyone who trusts in flesh/ man etc) )

Trusting in the Church =/= trusting in man. What exactly are you going to test a doctrine by when you don't have a connection to the Apostles themselves? Every doctrine of the Orthodox Church lives in harmony with Scripture. The fact is that you are telling me to test not based on Scripture, but based on my personal interpretation of Scripture, which Peter warned against, because Scripture didn't come by way of private interpretation.

 

[sculleywr]

I follow Paul because he follows Christ. So whats your beef?

You follow your understanding of Paul. How do you know yours is the truth? You don't. You believe you follow the Spirit, but have no way to test the spirit you follow to prove it to be the Spirit of God and not some deceptive spirit that seeks to fool you. You are not wiser than the demons, for no human on their own is wiser than the demons.

How is it that nobody who knew Paul personally believed like you did? Is it because Paul was a horrible teacher? Or is it possible that you misunderstand the writing of Paul because you pass it through your modern filters and culture?

 

[sculleywr]

Kindly stop saying I'm not following the apostles then.

Show evidence that you're following the Apostles and not your personal interpretation of the scriptures, then. I can show that evidence. Your claim, thus far, is based on your word and nothing else. Pardon me, but if you're right, then Paul was a horrible teacher.

 

[sculleywr]

So, we are really not Christians because we don't have the "Christ of the Apostles"? If our "Christ" is something of our own design, does that mean we are idolaters?

Nice of you to ignore that I was talking about the belief system, and not individual salvation. This is why you just beat down a strawman.

 

[W2L]

Trusting in the Church =/= trusting in man. What exactly are you going to test a doctrine by when you don't have a connection to the Apostles themselves? Every doctrine of the Orthodox Church lives in harmony with Scripture. The fact is that you are telling me to test not based on Scripture, but based on my personal interpretation of Scripture, which Peter warned against, because Scripture didn't come by way of private interpretation.

We have the commands and teaching of the apostles, recorded in scripture. We also have something far more significant than an apostle, we have the spirit.

Sculleywr, I show you amore excellent way...


1 Corithians 3:1 Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it.

13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

 

[W2L]

Nice of you to ignore that I was talking about the belief system, and not individual salvation. This is why you just beat down a strawman.

Revelation 19:9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”

10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.”

 

[W2L]

Show evidence that you're following the Apostles and not your personal interpretation of the scriptures, then. I can show that evidence. Your claim, thus far, is based on your word and nothing else. Pardon me, but if you're right, then Paul was a horrible teacher.

Evidence is not in historical records but the heart. Show me that evidence.

2 Co:3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

4 Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.


10:12 We do not dare to classify or compare ourselves with some who commend themselves. When they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are not wise.

17 But, “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.” 18 For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Trusting in the Church =/= trusting in man. What exactly are you going to test a doctrine by when you don't have a connection to the Apostles themselves?

You're so far in left field I have no idea what is going through your mind and spirit.
A connection with the Apostles is far far far below what Jesus prayed for for all of His disciples then and now, today.
Read prayerfully John 17.
There's no hope for anyone outside of Jesus - it doesn't help nor matter if they follow any particular church(if they do, without Jesus, they are cursed, not blessed and not alive).

 

[sculleywr]

We have the commands and teaching of the apostles, recorded in scripture. We also have something far more significant than an apostle, we have the spirit.

Sculleywr, I show you amore excellent way...


1 Corithians 3:1 Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it.

13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Except your interpretation of the Scripture leads you to ignore many parts of Scripture, such as not forsaking the gathering together of the Brethren. Like it or not, this website and all other social media are not replacements for the Church because you can't receive Eucharist or Baptism or any of the Sacraments.

It is not childish to admit you need others in your life. It is maturity to know that you do not know everything. It is maturity that admits fault and error. Those who live on their own as hermits are exceptions, not rules. Most people need the community of the Church in people you can see, touch, smell, and invite into your house. If you cannot gather together with the members of your church even if a massive electromagnetic pulse knocked out the entire internet across the world, then you do not have a real church.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Trusting in the Church =/= trusting in man.

Peter warned against, because Scripture didn't come by way of private interpretation.

You have already made clear that
you trust in men who made an interpretation
that the Father Himself and Jesus makes clear is false.
\
Now you have admitted that Peter warned against believing their interpretation,
but you
for whatever reason believed their interpretation even though from what you have posted yourself their interpretation is wrong (contrary to Scripture and to Yhwh's Spirit).

 

[sculleywr]

You're so far in left field I have no idea what is going through your mind and spirit.
A connection with the Apostles is far far far below what Jesus prayed for for all of His disciples then and now, today.
Read prayerfully John 17.
There's no hope for anyone outside of Jesus - it doesn't help nor matter if they follow any particular church(if they do, without Jesus, they are cursed, not blessed and not alive).

That they all be one. If I am one with the Apostles, and the Apostles are one with Christ, then I am one with Christ by virtue of the connection the Apostles have to Christ, because last I checked, the Apostles are currently perfect and in the presence of Christ.

Christ is the way to the Father. But the Apostles are a connection to Christ. Or would you say the Apostles aren't really connected to Christ? It is impossible to be connected to the Apostles without being connected to Christ.