The bible says to not strain at a gnat, but a parable is not a gnat ;)

[Meowzltov]

Did you say you grew up in the Church of the Nazarene or you were in that church and converted to Catholic?

Oh, my life is sooooooooooooooooooooo complicated. To begin with, I'm of Jewish descent, but my family was fundamentalist. My father was a Methodist pastor, but he was a fundie during the age of social gospel so they didn't like him and sent him to the worst, poorist parishes, and when he'd get them on their feet, they'd transfer him again. He finally burned out and became a computer programmer and that's when I was born. We went to a lot of different holiness wesleyan churches before settling into a Quaker Church. Between 2nd Grade and 5th Grade we attended a Nazarene Church. I liked it for its "Jet Cadets" (a Christian boy/girl scouts kind of thing) but we left it because it really only evangelized new Christians and didn't really feed older Christians my parents said. I began a religious search at age 16 by going around and worshipping at different Christian churches and studying their respective theologies and histories. I became Catholic at age 27. I have not always been the most wonderful Christian/Catholic, but I have always come back to Christ and His Church.

 

[Meowzltov]

It think that is the outcome yes, but I think that there is more to the prophecy.

Mat 21:41 They say to him, `Evil men--he will evilly destroy them, and the vineyard will give out to other husbandmen, who will give back to him the fruits in their seasons.'

Mat 21:43 `Because of this I say to you, that the reign of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth its fruit;

Yes I see your point. Let it never be said I don't listen

 

[Hank77]

Oh, my life is sooooooooooooooooooooo complicated. To begin with, I'm of Jewish descent, but my family was fundamentalist. My father was a Methodist pastor, but he was a fundie during the age of social gospel so they didn't like him and sent him to the worst, poorist parishes, and when he'd get them on their feet, they'd transfer him again. He finally burned out and became a computer programmer and that's when I was born. We went to a lot of different holiness wesleyan churches before settling into a Quaker Church. Between 2nd Grade and 5th Grade we attended a Nazarene Church. I liked it for its "Jet Cadets" (a Christian boy/girl scouts kind of thing) but we left it because it really only evangelized new Christians and didn't really feed older Christians my parents said. I began a religious search at age 16 by going around and worshipping at different Christian churches and studying their respective theologies and histories. I became Catholic at age 27. I have not always been the most wonderful Christian/Catholic, but I have always come back to the Church.

Wow. You have been around, you must have been happy to find a place to settle in and find peace. There are probably many more than we will ever know who have searched for a home church, and some even strayed for awhile (rather like the prodigal) but the Lord has a way of protecting His own and leading us where He wants us to be.

 

[Meowzltov]

Wow. You have been around, you must have been happy to find a place to settle in and find peace. There are probably many more than we will ever know who have searched for a home church, and some even strayed for awhile (rather like the prodigal) but the Lord has away of protecting His own and leading us where He wants us to be.

Yes. I have a home. In a way I feel thrashed. I'm very empathic, and there's a part of me that is so able to see things through the eyes of others that I feel like "They are ALL right" which is nonsense since they contradict. It can rattle me so much that at times I switch to "They are all WRONG!" LOL At times like that I have to simply trust in Jesus. I have made the best choice I can, the choice I seem to keep returning to, and so despite doubt which arise from time to time, I will be content with that. I will wander no more. My quest has shifted from finding what is true to doing what God calls me to do.

 

[stephen583]

If you want to say the parables are something more than parables, then I want to see your evidence, your proof. Make your case.

I have. Over and over again. Do you need me to list the numbers of the posts in this thread I've made so far ?! How about I repost verses like Revelation 19:10 that states "the testimony of Jesus Christ is the Spirit of Prophecy".

You don't consider Revelation 19:10 Scriptural evidence everything Jesus stated was "prophetic" in nature ? So what you are saying is, the testimony of Jesus Christ WAS NOT the Spirit of Prophecy, right ? In other words, God is wrong, and you're right ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I have. Over and over again. Do you need me to list the numbers of the posts in this thread I've made so far ?!

You do know that's a catholic you replied to , right ?
(according to the rules of the catholic church that have been posted ad nauseum ad infinitum, they have to agree with something and someone other than Scripture and Jesus in order to be a member of that church; they cannot accept arguments from God nor from Scripture nor from God's children that prove doctrines or practices of catholicism is wrong)

 

[stephen583]

You do know that's a catholic you replied to , right ?

Of course I know that. I grew up in New Orleans Louisiana where the RCC dominates local religion. I'm quite familiar with their doctrines and traditions. Lol.

A Catholic argued with me once in a Christian chat room the Virgin Mary is not formally recognized by the RCC as a "co-equal" of God . I pointed out in RCC wedding ceremonies I had attended, the wedding vows were administered in front the church pulpit, and then moved over to a secondary shrine dedicated to the Virgin Mary, where the vows were re-consecrated a second time. I used to professionally video tape church weddings as a side line, so I've seen plenty of them. You can imagine the silence that followed.

 

[Meowzltov]

I have. Over and over again. Do you need me to list the numbers of the posts in this thread I've made so far ?! How about I repost verses like Revelation 19:10 that states "the testimony of Jesus Christ is the Spirit of Prophecy".

You don't consider Revelation 19:10 Scriptural evidence everything Jesus stated was "prophetic" in nature ? So what you are saying is, the testimony of Jesus Christ WAS NOT the Spirit of Prophecy, right ? In other words, God is wrong, and you're right ?

Jesus DID prophesize. But not everything he said was prophesy. A few of his parables were prophecy, like the wheat and the tares. Most weren't, like Lazarus and the rich man.

I've seen this happen many times. A person gets an idea in their head, and it is so attractive to them, they get so enthusiastic about it, that they force the facts to fit it, even when the evidence doesn't go their way.

 

[-57]

Nothing in Theistic Evolution denies Original Sin. It is very obvious to me that at some time during our evolution (most very likely at the time when God gave us our immortal sou) we reached a stage of moral sentience. This gave us culpability, meaning that unlike other animals, we are now capable of sin. This capacity (even predilection) to sin is indeed passed on from parent to child. If that's not Original Sin, I don't know what is.

Nice thought....but it's not what the bible teaches...this makes that false theology heretical.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Nice thought....but it's not what the bible teaches...this makes that false theology heretical.

Aww but you say that to everyone.

 

[Vicomte13]

Rabbinical Jews reject Christ because God has veiled their eyes. It's not because their judgment is flawed, or because they are rebellious, or because they are stupid. They are not responsible for their rejection of Christ.

I reject that logic. Their judgment is flawed, and has been all along. Jesus did not speak to the lawyers and rabbis and pharisees as sympathetic folks whose eyes God was clouding for a purpose. He spoke of them as hypocritical scumbags and open tombs, laying snares for people. He called them a nest of vipers.

They are rebellious. Their judgment is flawed. Their love of their tradition has veiled their eyes. They're not stupid.

Rejection of Christ lies in not doing what he said to do. Jesus himself (not his pharisaical churches, not his "broad and easy path" followers and enthusiasts, but he himself) said that men would be judged by their deeds - by what they do - and that men will be forgiven their blasphemies against him, the Son.

One can be wrongheaded about Christ and still forgiven one's sins by God IF one is forgiving of others their sins. If one follows Jesus by keeping the basic moral law and forgiving, one may not KNOW one is following Jesus qua Jesus, but one nevertheless is.

You're going to defend the intellectual arrogance of the Jews because you are Jewish and are proud of them. This conversation will just end up a World War I trench battle of unmoving positions. We've both said what we think. We cannot change one another's mind on any substantive element in this matter, so we should probably just call a truce and leave this particular subject where it lies, in the trench lines that it has been in for two thousand years. We're certainly not going to resolve it for the world by refighting it. Nor are we going to teach each other anything. We're just going to rail and strive and become angry with each other and part ways.

So let's just decide not to do that instead, and talk about something else.

 

[Meowzltov]

Nice thought....but it's not what the bible teaches...this makes that false theology heretical.

What? The Bible doesn't teach that we came to know right from wrong? That we have a sinful nature that is passed along from parent to child?

 

[Meowzltov]

I reject that logic. Their judgment is flawed, and has been all along. Jesus did not speak to the lawyers and rabbis and pharisees as sympathetic folks whose eyes God was clouding for a purpose. He spoke of them as hypocritical scumbags and open tombs, laying snares for people. He called them a nest of vipers.

Do you think the Pharisees were representative of all the Jews? I think not. (And not even all Pharisees were bad -- consider Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea.) It is a logical error for you to generalize to all Jews the flaws of a few.

 

[Lulav]

If your post is missing or edited it is for one of
the precious mentioned reasons.
Please get back on Topic and
post only to the subject and
not the person.
Thank You! ​

 

[stephen583]

Nice thought....but it's not what the bible teaches...this makes that false theology heretical.

Merriam-Webster. (Anthropomorphism) The act of assigning human attributes, traits, emotions, or intentions to a deity.

This is the fundamental flaw of all Theist theories about God. God is omnipresent (meaning he exists in all times simultaneously) and is omniscient (all knowing). No human can put himself in God's shoes and know why God has chosen to do things in a certain way. It's impossible. The Scripture clearly states this in no uncertain terms.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts" (ISAIAH 55:8-9).

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So what can God be likened to and what is God like?
.
However, just because God has created us in his image and likeness ... doesn't mean the reverse application follows.

 

[Vicomte13]

Do you think the Pharisees were representative of all the Jews? I think not. (And not even all Pharisees were bad -- consider Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea.) It is a logical error for you to generalize to all Jews the flaws of a few.

Of course not. But Rabbinnical Judaism, the authority to which you cited to reduce me to ashes is most certainly based in Pharisaism. You know the history as well as I do.

It is indeed a logical error to generalize to all Jews the flaws of a few.

It is not, however, a logical error to generalize that ANYBODY, Jewish or Gentile, who rejects Christ has made a serious error, and to sharply question that person's judgment, and to deny that person's spiritual authority.

You were asserting that the Jews, today, who study the Talmud, have greater authority to say what the Torah means than Christians who study it. I deny that.

This is not a matter of "blaming Jews", it's a question of acknowledging who is God. People who get that wrong do not have equal authority to interpret the things of God to people who get it right.

There are no native speakers of ancient Hebrew in the world. Modern Hebrew is a different language - related, with great overlap of vocabulary, to be sure, but the verb works completely differently, and modern Jews have no greater discernment into the meanings of very ancient idiom than any other scholars of the language. There is no genetic component of knowledge that renders Egyptians superior at reading hieroglyphics than Russians, or Irishman to read Ogham than Englishmen, and the same is true of the Jews.

But again, this discussion isn't going to go anywhere good, so I think we should drop it.

 

[stephen583]

So what can God be likened to and what is God like?
.
However, just because God has created us in his image and likeness ... doesn't mean the reverse application follows.

Exactly. See Post #175. God is NOT like us.

 

[Meowzltov]

But Rabbinnical Judaism, the authority to which you cited to reduce me to ashes is most certainly based in Pharisaism.

This alarms me! My objective in here is to be informative, not to reduce anyone to ashes. If you felt humiliated, I'm so very sorry. Sometimes I come across very strongly because the other person argues very fervently, but I assure you it's not meant personally. And I'm not about winning. I'm about the truth. Although of course I think I have it right, there is a little red flag up in my mind that I am fallible. There have been times on the computer that others have changed my mind. May the Holy Spirit prevail.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Exactly. See Post #175. God is NOT like us.

Well he is if we take all the sin out ... but since it infects our minds also ... we just can't see it.