How does one come to believe something?

[ScottA]

I'm not convinced.

But are you haunted?

 

[ScottA]

What on earth are you talking about now...

You all act like we all are bringing our case to you for approval so you can test our presentation. But in reality, it is you who are presenting yourselves to God, and your reservations and demands are causing you to loose your case. Your up is down.

 

[Arsenios]

Your mind reading skills are a little lacking.

Ha! 'T'wouldn't be the first time!

No, this not why I said that. Contrary to what I said earlier, I do know why I cited this quote.

'T'wasn't you at all - No wonder I have no such skills!

The winky smiley should have been a hint - I was being a teensy bit ironical.

I will give you citational obscurity...

If you can identify the origin of this quote (which should not be too difficult on the internet) you might also find that the, term, "persons" that made this exclamation do also hold a rather peculiar belief about life, death and life after death.

Thanks, I'll pass - You can do so however, since it is, after all, YOUR citation...

Considering their also rather anachistic approach to authority, I found it a fitting response to Scott's assertions.

Couldn't prove it by me - Were you intentionally just making an inside joke with your self?

I mean, is the alternative you advocate atheist nihilistic narcissism?

No worries, mate.

None whatsoever!

You win some, you lose some.

Indeed!

Arsenios

 

[HitchSlap]

But are you haunted?

No.

 

[ScottA]

Ah, you've been engaging in hypotheticals the entire time.

Why?

Not at all. But the ability to hypothesize the points we are making, would appear to be non-existent with much of this crowd.

 

[ScottA]

No.

Then...it's #2 then. Enjoy your natural life. You can thank us all for the entertainment after the curtain call.

 

[HitchSlap]

Then...it's #2 then. Enjoy your natural life. You can thank us all for the entertainment after the curtain call.

Ok. Enjoy your fictitious life. I'll leave a tip if you've earned it.

 

[StTruth]

I am referring, in contemporary terms, to "the natural body" vs. "the spiritual body." So...I am not referring to "a non-organic part of a human being" at all - but to the "new creation" born of the spirit of God, rather than of the fallen lineage of man.

I really need to understand you. Are you making a mockery of Christianity or are you doing this in earnest? I mean do you seriously think your approach is correct? I've read a lot of what you have said and do you know what I think? I think an atheist will just think you are wacko.

When you deal with atheists, you must be rational. I don't see a single rational thought in what you have said. You will forgive me for being frank but what you have been doing is to dish out your personal belief and present it to atheists in the hope that they will accept it without question. It will only make them despise Christians for not being rational.

My approach when dealing with atheists is better. I acknowledge at the very start that religion is without logic and that it is totally unsupported by even the flimsiest piece of evidence. I acknowledge that I was brought up in the religion and I continue with it because it's really a part of my culture. I think atheists can accept such honesty better.

Cheers,

StTruth

 

[HitchSlap]

Not at all. But the ability to hypothesize the points we are making, would appear to be non-existent with much of this crowd.

Which is to say, you have difficulty distinguishing reality from fiction.
(I bet I'm not the first person in your life to tell you this.)

 

[Arsenios]

And what if my grandson told you that not only I ran into the building, but was burned beyond recognition, and that three days after my funeral, I dropped by for coffee?

You make my point - eg The epistemology of "What IF?"

Your universe is a continuum of the what-if's of keeping alive, and enhancing your material life, which will end in your decrepitudinal and anihilational death...

Ours is in Joy and Expectation of the Life of the Age to Come...
Having been given its earnest in this life...
Being but temporary sojourners in our walk...
As strangers to this fallen and death filled world
This messed up and fallen world which you embrace...

So HOW - You Dog! - How did you come up with that great moniker HITCH-SLAP???

What a GREAT Nom de Plume!

Arsenios

 

[HitchSlap]

You make my point - eg The epistemology of "What IF?"

Your universe is a continuum of the what-if's of keeping alive, and enhancing your material life, which will end in your decrepitudinal and anihilational death...

Ours is in Joy and Expectation of the Life of the Age to Come...
Being but temporary sojourners in our walk...
As strangers to this fallen and death filled world which you embrace...

So HOW - You Dog! - How did you come up with that great moniker HITCH-SLAP???

What a GREAT Nom de Plume!

Arsenios

I'll be honest, it seems like you're not very interested in having a real conversation. All I asked you is, how would you know if you were wrong?
I'm not really interested in what you think I think. Rather, how do we come to believe what we believe. Can our beliefs be justified?

Unless we respond to each others posts, we'll simply continue talking past each other, and this is not productive.

 

[Freodin]

Ha! 'T'wouldn't be the first time!

Indeed. It is amazing that the new reborn spiritual existence appears exactly like the old dead carnal self.

'T'wasn't you at all - No wonder I have no such skills!

The quotation marks are usually a telltale sign that it is not "you".

I will give you citational obscurity...

Shouldn't you rather give spiritual enlightenment?

Thanks, I'll pass - You can do so however, since it is, after all, YOUR citation...
Couldn't prove it by me - Were you intentionally just making an inside joke with your self?

I am sure that there are a number of others that are acquainted with the works of one of the greatest philosophers of the late 20th century, the late Sir Terrance Pratchett. Some might have understood the context, and understood the joke.

The Nac Mac Feegle are an boozing, fighting, stea... err, borrowing bunch of... fairies... who got themselves thrown out of fairyland for boozing, fighting and st.. borrowing.
Those who exist in the "real world" (Diskworld, that is) hold the belief that they died and went to Heaven for being really really good. After all... a world full of booze and fights and things to... borrow... that must be Heaven? And how else would they have got there?

I mean, is the alternative you advocate atheist nihilistic narcissism?

Not necessarily. Atheist nihilistic narcissism is great, but I prefer wisteria. Almost indestructible, if you can get it through a late frost.

 

[StTruth]

Can I ask the atheists on this thread a question? Are you like cats that love to play with their prey before eating them? Is it not obvious to you that you have all triumphed WITHOUT QUESTION on this thread? Is it not obvious to you that the only argument (if argument it can be called) put forward by my fellow Christians is feeble at best? Or would you rather listen to an honest Christian ie one who will give his honest answer to the OP's question REGARDLESS of how it will reflect on us Christians.

Here's my honest answer. How does one come to believe something? If the subject matter of the belief is baseless and evidence-less such as religion, we come to believe in it through our families. I was taught Christianity from the cradle. I was an altar boy for most of my life. I believed everything I was taught as a child and I thought the Bible was the inerrant word of God although inerrancy isn't taught in my church. It just seemed natural to think of God's word as inerrant since we always have to thank God in the response after each scriptural reading and it's hard for a child to think that God's word could be erroneous.

It was only very recently (after I grew out of my childhood) that I discovered that my religion is totally unsupported by any evidence and the Bible stands on shifting sand if you are thinking of reliability and validity. Even the canon of Scripture is highly suspect. There are so many things that can and did go wrong with the Bible that it's impossible to enumerate them. Scholars all know this and have written books on it.

So in answer to the OP question, I came to believe through my parents and the church. And I wised up after I acquired some knowledge through reading. This about sums up the matter honestly. That's all there is to the answer to the OP's question.

Cheers,

StTruth

 

[HitchSlap]

Can I ask the atheists on this thread a question? Are you like cats that love to play with their prey before eating them? Is it not obvious to you that you have all triumphed WITHOUT QUESTION on this thread? Is it not obvious to you that the only argument (if argument it can be called) put forward by my fellow Christians is feeble at best? Or would you rather listen to an honest Christian ie one who will give his honest answer to the OP's question REGARDLESS of how it will reflect on us Christians.

Here's my honest answer. How does one come to believe something? If the subject matter of the belief is baseless and evidence-less such as religion, we come to believe in it through our families. I was taught Christianity from the cradle. I was an altar boy for most of my life. I believed everything I was taught as a child and I thought the Bible was the inerrant word of God although inerrancy isn't taught in my church. It just seemed natural to think of God's word as inerrant since we always have to thank God in the response after each scriptural reading and it's hard for a child to think that God's word could be erroneous.

It was only very recently (after I grew out of my childhood) that I discovered that my religion is totally unsupported by any evidence and the Bible stands on shifting sand if you are thinking of reliability and validity. Even the canon of Scripture is highly suspect. There are so many things that can and did go wrong with the Bible that it's impossible to enumerate them. Scholars all know this and have written books on it.

So in answer to the OP question, I came to believe through my parents and the church. And I wised up after I acquired some knowledge through reading. This about sums up the matter honestly. That's all there is to the answer to the OP's question.

Cheers,

StTruth

Thanks for honestly sharing!

Our stories sound similar.

 

[ScottA]

I really need to understand you. Are you making a mockery of Christianity or are you doing this in earnest? I mean do you seriously think your approach is correct? I've read a lot of what you have said and do you know what I think? I think an atheist will just think you are wacko.

When you deal with atheists, you must be rational. I don't see a single rational thought in what you have said. You will forgive me for being frank but what you have been doing is to dish out your personal belief and present it to atheists in the hope that they will accept it without question. It will only make them despise Christians for not being rational.

My approach when dealing with atheists is better. I acknowledge at the very start that religion is without logic and that it is totally unsupported by even the flimsiest piece of evidence. I acknowledge that I was brought up in the religion and I continue with it because it's really a part of my culture. I think atheists can accept such honesty better.

Cheers,

StTruth

Before we can get into your way verses my way...do you not know what it is to be born again of the spirit of God, or that there is a natural body and a spiritual body?

 

[StTruth]

Before we can get into your way verses my way...do you not know what it is to be born again of the spirit of God, or that there is a natural body and a spiritual body?

What do you mean by 'born again'? Are you referring to John 3:3? You are aware that a great scholar has shown that Jesus could not have spoken those words to Nicodemus, right? Because the double meaning of the word is only available in Koine Greek and not in Aramaic which was what Jesus spoke in. Are you aware of this?

 

[ScottA]

Can I ask the atheists on this thread a question? Are you like cats that love to play with their prey before eating them? Is it not obvious to you that you have all triumphed WITHOUT QUESTION on this thread? Is it not obvious to you that the only argument (if argument it can be called) put forward by my fellow Christians is feeble at best? Or would you rather listen to an honest Christian ie one who will give his honest answer to the OP's question REGARDLESS of how it will reflect on us Christians.

Here's my honest answer. How does one come to believe something? If the subject matter of the belief is baseless and evidence-less such as religion, we come to believe in it through our families. I was taught Christianity from the cradle. I was an altar boy for most of my life. I believed everything I was taught as a child and I thought the Bible was the inerrant word of God although inerrancy isn't taught in my church. It just seemed natural to think of God's word as inerrant since we always have to thank God in the response after each scriptural reading and it's hard for a child to think that God's word could be erroneous.

It was only very recently (after I grew out of my childhood) that I discovered that my religion is totally unsupported by any evidence and the Bible stands on shifting sand if you are thinking of reliability and validity. Even the canon of Scripture is highly suspect. There are so many things that can and did go wrong with the Bible that it's impossible to enumerate them. Scholars all know this and have written books on it.

So in answer to the OP question, I came to believe through my parents and the church. And I wised up after I acquired some knowledge through reading. This about sums up the matter honestly. That's all there is to the answer to the OP's question.

Cheers,

StTruth

What do you mean by 'born again'? Are you referring to John 3:3? You are aware that a great scholar has shown that Jesus could not have spoken those words to Nicodemus, right? Because the double meaning of the word is only available in Koine Greek and not in Aramaic which was what Jesus spoke in. Are you aware of this?

By your own confession, you are not what you claim to be - but are a follower of people and organized religion. Thus, you disqualify yourself to debate any spiritual matters with anyone.

As for being born again of the spirit of God - again you refer to a man, rather than to God or Christ - again, you disqualify yourself. If you were indeed qualified, you would know better than to base your theology on men's wisdom. You would know that God is spirit, that the words of Christ are spirit, and only the spirit may enter the kingdom of God. And professing to be wise, you have not even done the math.

 

[Chriliman]

Can I ask the atheists on this thread a question? Are you like cats that love to play with their prey before eating them? Is it not obvious to you that you have all triumphed WITHOUT QUESTION on this thread? Is it not obvious to you that the only argument (if argument it can be called) put forward by my fellow Christians is feeble at best? Or would you rather listen to an honest Christian ie one who will give his honest answer to the OP's question REGARDLESS of how it will reflect on us Christians.

Here's my honest answer. How does one come to believe something? If the subject matter of the belief is baseless and evidence-less such as religion, we come to believe in it through our families. I was taught Christianity from the cradle. I was an altar boy for most of my life. I believed everything I was taught as a child and I thought the Bible was the inerrant word of God although inerrancy isn't taught in my church. It just seemed natural to think of God's word as inerrant since we always have to thank God in the response after each scriptural reading and it's hard for a child to think that God's word could be erroneous.

It was only very recently (after I grew out of my childhood) that I discovered that my religion is totally unsupported by any evidence and the Bible stands on shifting sand if you are thinking of reliability and validity. Even the canon of Scripture is highly suspect. There are so many things that can and did go wrong with the Bible that it's impossible to enumerate them. Scholars all know this and have written books on it.

So in answer to the OP question, I came to believe through my parents and the church. And I wised up after I acquired some knowledge through reading. This about sums up the matter honestly. That's all there is to the answer to the OP's question.

Cheers,

StTruth

Christianity is not evidence-less if one considers 'evidence' to be something that exists in reality that can be objectively analyzed by all subjective people.

The claims your parents made about their beliefs were evidence to you that caused you to believe them. New evidence will either confirm your beliefs or cause you to doubt them and possibly reject them. However, what's important is that you believe the truth and we all know who claims to be the way and the truth and the life. Thank God!

God expects everyone to think rationally and make good decisions, therefore as Christians, we shouldn't say that Christianity is not rational.

 

[ScottA]

Which is to say, you have difficulty distinguishing reality from fiction.
(I bet I'm not the first person in your life to tell you this.)

You have made it clear that you have no interest in God...so I have no interest in you. I am therefore blocking communication with you. Should you change your ways and repent - send me a personal message and I will change it. Until such a time, we have nothing to talk about.

 

[HitchSlap]

You have made it clear that you have no interest in God...so I have no interest in you. I am therefore blocking communication with you. Should you change your ways and repent - send me a personal message and I will change it. Until such a time, we have nothing to talk about.

Likewise, as you have made it clear you have no interest in reason or honest exchange. I will also leave the door open for you if you should change your ways and repent. Even the most ardent religionists are not impervious to logic all of the time.