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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
How does one come to believe something?
- Thread starter Joshua260
- Start date
Still not addressing the actual question I see...
Person B says "So Scott, do YOU want to know the truth about God-B, and if so, are you willing to look where it can be found? Or are you fine believing in something that isn't true?"
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The underlying question, as I've already said, is how do you present your claims to someone who has claims that run counter to your own, and who argues in the same fashion as you? That is, presenting no evidence for their beliefs and then claiming that your beliefs are wrong, and that if you just "looked inward" (or some similar action) you'd believe as they do.
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First of all, and I repeat, it is not a contest. Truth may be challenged by lies, but truth is not less because of it. Regardless, the victor is truth.
Does that mean we cannot debate? Of course we can. But being right holds a great and ultimate prerogative - time is on our side. So, then, it becomes less of a debate and more of a matter of reasoning. But one form of logic does not serve all things. So, to have you looking on and seeing the counterfeits as being close enough to the real deal, and applying worldly logic (physics) to sort out what is clearly defined as not being physical - is pointless. Your repetition simply adds to your frustration - and leaves you lashing out at us for not bringing the matter to you and where it cannot go.
The first thing then that can be done on your part, is to consider the matter out of the realm of your own logic...which would eliminate many of the would be counterfeits. That process alone would put you on the correct path to finding the greater truth, and it would give you something to base your next steps on. Have you done this - have you determined that some beliefs are only worldly?
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You're ability to say something unrelated to the question is uncanny. You should be a politician.
Person B says "Scott, in order for you to accept the reality of God-B, you need to let go of your own logic, which would eliminate your counterfeit beliefs. Then you would be on the path to accept God-B as the truth."
What would you say to Person B?
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I would literally pay money to see a Hindu register on this site and use the same tactics Scott does back at him. It would be the 600 page thread that goes nowhere.
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Stick with person T (Todd). Drop the third person stuff and speak plainly.
Whatever it is that you are asking is obscured by your Person B, God-B stuff. I still can't make heads or tails of it.
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I'm asking... again... is:
"The underlying question, as I've already said, is how do you present your claims to someone who has claims that run counter to your own, and who argues in the same fashion as you? That is, presenting no evidence for their beliefs and then claiming that your beliefs are wrong, and that if you just "looked inward" (or some similar action) you'd believe as they do."
I keep using Person B to show you what your own arguments are like to other people.
Ineffectual...
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The above is all you needed to say.
- By stating my qualifications to be able to make such a presentation.
- By reason.
- By presenting collaborating information.
- By asking questions.
- By pointing out the error of their own claim(s).
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#3. I have referred to the written testimonies that have been given all throughout history that agree with my own testimony.
#5. I have pointed out your error of expecting a physically logical explanation about a non-physical topic...and the insane nature of repeating it.
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One of the 6th century BC Greek Philosophers liked to say "Nature loves to hide...", and this during a time when the ancient pre-Christian Greeks were examining reality in order to find a fundamental principle that would account for all of it... So that if physis itself loves to hide, how much more "to physis tou theou..." [The Nature of God]...
Like nature itself, God is hidden in plain sight throughout the creation He created... He is everywhere present, and fills all things, yet no man has seen God at any time, while at the same time, the disciples saw Christ Who is God... So we live in this Mystery of the Faith where we see God in our fellow man, while never seeing God, yet partaking of Him in our Faith...
So in truth, He is not hiding, but we in our self-consecration are hiding ourselves from Him...
Which is why repentance from (denial of) SELF is the pathway to God Who is unapproachable...
The problem with reason alone, besides it never being alone, is that it is hopelessly inadequate in its grasp of what is real... The Faith is not rationally proven, but instead is entered in purity of heart... Rationality is the guard-dog protecting one purity of heart when it is assaulted by self-motivated temptations to anything other than God... And in this is found the overcoming of the world...
Arsenios
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