How does one come to believe something?

[ScottA]

I give more credibility to written words when they align with reality.

What, then, if your reality only exists within a bubble in the mind of God - would you want to know about it?

 

[ScottA]

Could you be more vague?

I have elaborated plenty. But what I said, is the simple and concise truth.

 

[ScottA]

Kumquat

Fishbowl.

 

[bhsmte]

I have elaborated plenty. But what I said, is the simple and concise truth.

It is the truth based on what?

 

[ScottA]

It is the truth based on what?

You are going in circles. As I already said, it is the truth based on having the objective view of this entire topic from the outside looking in...from outside the universe.

 

[bhsmte]

You are going in circles. As I already said, it is the truth based on having the objective view of this entire topic from the outside looking in...from outside the universe.

You have not demonstrated how what you say is the truth. Saying it is from the outside looking in, just doesn't cut it.

 

[Freodin]

I have to stop you there - I was not "told" (by other people), but was shown by God...and now I am telling you.

It must be nice to have been chosen by God to lead other people.

You simply don't understand. We would have to put what I said together with your analogy correctly, in order for it to be represented properly:

In that analogy, we would be talking about an extended cruise with a sickness working its way through 100% of the passengers before they could reach land...and a medical drop is made to the ship with instructions for a cure. The passengers then, have a choice of choosing to believe what the materials say and trust the ship's doctors and staff - or die. Meanwhile, you are free to move about the ship - enjoy the cruise!

I find it really interesting how you chose to word your posts, and how you chose to build your analogies.

When I chimed in on this conversation in post #925, mentioned exactly this problem: you do not have to offer anything but "come and see things my way". You denied this. You claimed to show only the truth.

Here you are. You are (one of) God's chosen. You are here as "His light placed upon a hill to lead all peoples of the world". You are one of "the ship's doctors and staff".

And what are the rest of us to do? "...believe what the materials say and trust the ship's doctors and staff..."

"Come and see things my way!"

But ok, so you are the one who has gotten this instructions for the cure. People are to believe you and trust you. Following your instructions, they can be healed.

Then, do so! You can either start telling, advising - teaching! - people what to do, or you can fall back on excuses like "Sorry, the chief medical staff chose to keep me in blindness" and blame people for dying because you were unable to give them precise instructions.

Can you do that? I highly doubt that! You are not one of the "ship's doctors and staff". You are the weird guy who tells all the passengers to don their life vests, because you are about to ram an iceberg and sink... and leave all the other passengers on the train wondering what the heck you are talking about.

 

[ScottA]

You have not demonstrated how what you say is the truth. Saying it is from the outside looking in, just doesn't cut it.

Okay.

 

[ScottA]

It must be nice to have been chosen by God to lead other people.

I find it humbling as well as frustrating. But, for the most part, I am a follower rather than a leader, which means I do more sharing than leading.

 

[ScottA]

I find it really interesting how you chose to word your posts, and how you chose to build your analogies.

When I chimed in on this conversation in post #925, mentioned exactly this problem: you do not have to offer anything but "come and see things my way". You denied this. You claimed to show only the truth.

Here you are. You are (one of) God's chosen. You are here as "His light placed upon a hill to lead all peoples of the world". You are one of "the ship's doctors and staff".

And what are the rest of us to do? "...believe what the materials say and trust the ship's doctors and staff..."

"Come and see things my way!"

But ok, so you are the one who has gotten this instructions for the cure. People are to believe you and trust you. Following your instructions, they can be healed.

Then, do so! You can either start telling, advising - teaching! - people what to do, or you can fall back on excuses like "Sorry, the chief medical staff chose to keep me in blindness" and blame people for dying because you were unable to give them precise instructions.

Can you do that? I highly doubt that! You are not one of the "ship's doctors and staff". You are the weird guy who tells all the passengers to don their life vests, because you are about to ram an iceberg and sink... and leave all the other passengers on the train wondering what the heck you are talking about.

Picking up at, "Then, do so!"... The hold up is that you are inline for the meds, but you aren't taking them/not swallowing them.

At this point, the cat is out of the bag, the cure has been clearly stated. And while it is understandable that the whole matter is still a mystery...you have been to the doctor before, you know how this works - the excuse is now on you. Yes, you could claim there are as many prognosis as there are doctors - so what - pick one, that's the drill. And, yes, if you pick the wrong doctor, you are the one who suffers.

So, if I have explained some of the mystery of why things are the way they are, and explained that the information is revealed over time - don't blame me for offering some insight. If you see someone wondering around looking for an address and you point them on their way or explain the layout - do you expect to be treated as you treat those here? We're not threatening you, asking for money, looking you up and down to see how to scam you...this is a soup kitchen - we volunteer here (so to speak). That's it.

And if you have come into your illness (the illness of this life) before some medical-like breakthrough - who are you to blame history for not being ready for you? We all deal with our time...in our own time. Each age has its own frustrations. Nonetheless, each of us gets a similar mix with which to ponder our own future.

 

[Arsenios]

Kumquat

What is NFL football?

Still...no, I am not bitter or angry with Christians.
But I don't see that I would have to justify myself before you, or humour you, or convince you of my mental state.

If you have something to say to adress my post, do so. If not... go and have some happy time watching My Little Pony.

That sounds angry and bitter to me, and not joyful at all...

You do not need to justify whatever your mental state might be to me least of all...

But you flat out do not sound joyful at all...

The NFL Football comment was an American one - We have a "fantasy football" league where men do not engage the sport physically, but instead based on weekly statistics, and then we have the real games, and they are the only ones that count... eg fantasy vs reality...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

If you have something to say to address my post, do so.

I addressed what I am seeing as your bitterness and anger in it...

I could easily be wrong, and you said you are neither bitter nor angry, but then told me to "go and have some happy time watching My Little Pony", which sounded utterly dismissive, bitter and angry...

Joy is one feature of Christian lives...

God Bless You, my Brother!

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

But I don't see that I would have to justify myself before you,
or humour you,
or convince you of my mental state.

I simply observed that you do not sound joyful...
I am seeing no sense of joy in your postings at all...
You sound angry and bitter...

You replied with Joy as a fantasy cartoon...
And dismissed me to go watch it...
In what seemed to be a lack of joy...

So if Joy is for you but a fantasy cartoon...
Which has little to do with reality...
Then was I right?

Freodin, my fellow lover of Goethe!
Are YOU Joyful?
Do you read Hesse too?

Arsenios

 

[bhsmte]

What, then, if your reality only exists within a bubble in the mind of God - would you want to know about it?

My reality exists in the world in which reality can be demonstrated with evidence, independent of my own mind or personal desires. You see, I have a psychological need to analyze and be in as close touch with reality as I possibly can. In essence, I want to believe in as many true things as possible and that is how I roll.

 

[ScottA]

My reality exists in the world in which reality can be demonstrated with evidence, independent of my own mind or personal desires. You see, I have a psychological need to analyze and be in as close touch with reality as I possibly can. In essence, I want to believe in as many true things as possible and that is how I roll.

So...you are going with only what is obvious to you, within the limits of your own little part of reality...as if you already knew what you don't know. Interesting approach.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You CANNOT wrap your mind around your self...
And you can easily see why:
It is the self who HAS the mind...

Speak for yourself lol...I simply don't have the problems regarding the concept of self that you do.

The mind does not have a self...
But YOU have your MIND...

For all extensive purposes...you are your mind...the self is a concept you hold regarding your mind.

In the same manner, people think they ARE their thoughts...
Nothing could be more foolish...

And in similar fashion, people THINK that thoughts are concepts...
There is conceptual thinking...
Thoughts are a PRODUCT of thinking...

Thinking itself is the activity of the mind...
The nous directs this thinking...
Toward creation unto dissipation...
Or toward God unto concentration...

Most of us live in our thoughts about creation...
That is what is wrong about the world...
Because creation terminates in death...

Arsenios

Arsenios

It seems as if you have a lot of problems understanding the concept of self. If you're interested, I can possibly find an older thread that I made on this topic which might help you immensely. Just ask and I'll start looking.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You LOL in the dark.

I'm awfully fond of the "dark/light" analogies that christians use. They seem to forget that staring at the sun will blind you worse than any dark ever could.

 

[bhsmte]

So...you are going with only what is obvious to you, within the limits of your own little part of reality...as if you already knew what you don't know. Interesting approach.

Evidence is independent of myself.

2/3 of the world's population disagree with your personal faith beliefs. Are they all lost and not looking at things the right way; from the outside in?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

You have not demonstrated how what you say is the truth. Saying it is from the outside looking in, just doesn't cut it.

I'm to the point where I'm finding it pointless to argue with him anymore. He seems incapable of understanding that without good evidence that can be presented and critically examined, the "discussion" boils down to a never ending back and forth of "uh huh" and "nuh uh"...

It doesn't change non-theist minds. And while I still find posts like his useful in leading people away from theism, I don't have the energy to waste endlessly trying to explain how logical arguments work.

 

[devolved]

If, as I say, your reality is inverted - no, it will not help for me to come around to your concept of what is and is not true. The point is, that it is you who are down the rabbit hole. So, if I try to talk you back, it will not help at all if I join you and take the same pill.

Care, to talk about life outside the rabbit hole? Are you up to the challenge of life clear of the fog of this underworld existence?

Scott, you are not helping. You seem to intentionally obscure the language to talk about nothing specific in the middle of nowhere in particular. All of that sounds wise and mysterious, but it helps no one in particular to achieve or understand absolutely nothing. All it seems to perpetuate is the pretense of understanding, pretense of knowledge, and more obscurantism (you should look that word up).