The brain is not sufficient for consciousness

[Larniavc]

Are you still in the Garden of GOD, then?
Do not be confused in understanding that GOD'S GRACE was from the beginning...

GOD wasn't taken off guard by Adam/Mankind/Our fall...HE knew Adam/mankind/our fall...and yet, HE still created us.

We had to come forth into the world, didn't we?
And the created world, and everything that came straight from HIS HANDS from the beginning was declared GOOD...

So NOT perfect then: I understand.

 

[miknik5]

So NOT perfect then: I understand.

Not understanding your post?

 

[miknik5]

todd, First you said I am absolutely welcomed here if I want to discuss philosophy


Is this it?

 

[Larniavc]

So NOT perfect then: I understand.

You said God created everything knowing mankind would fall.

That's not perfect. Unless God thought the fall was a part of that perfection.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

You said God created everything knowing mankind would fall.

That's not perfect. Unless God thought the fall was a part of that perfection.

That's a tricky one; if all that happened (and, presumably, still happens) is part of perfection, then there is no imperfection... wherefore evil, sin, and wrong, and why the punishment?

On the other hand, how does imperfection arise from perfection?

 

[Larniavc]

That's a tricky one; if all that happened (and, presumably, still happens) is part of perfection, then there is no imperfection... wherefore evil, sin, and wrong, and why the punishment?

On the other hand, how does imperfection arise from perfection?

Unless God wanted us to fall.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Unless God wanted us to fall.

But then the problem of evil appears: God, said to be perfect - and perfectly good - not only created imperfection, but did so deliberately and knowingly, aware of the suffering it would engender. So we have two aspects of the problem of evil - the basic paradox of evil from perfect good, and the subsidiary paradox of perfectly all-loving and compassionate entity deliberately and knowingly creating a world of suffering...

 

[miknik5]

You said God created everything knowing mankind would fall.

That's not perfect. Unless God thought the fall was a part of that perfection.

It's Grace
Do you have children sir?
More than one?
Are they all exactly the same?

 

[miknik5]

That's a tricky one; if all that happened (and, presumably, still happens) is part of perfection, then there is no imperfection... wherefore evil, sin, and wrong, and why the punishment?

On the other hand, how does imperfection arise from perfection?

How does imperfection become perfect

Do you agree then that there is a PERFECT STANDARD

I think the difference between us is that for me THE PERFECT STANDARD was lost and there is no going backwards to it while on this imperfect ever changing world

And for you? This PERFECT STANDARD can maybe attained as we go forward

But the problem is that because Gods Word is Truth all this going forward is still going to be an imitation and substitution for what was the Original and Perfect Design that was lost from the beginning

God knew our fall sir. But He also knew the victory

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Do you agree then that there is a PERFECT STANDARD

No, I'm arguing the logic.

And for you?

I'm waiting for a logical explanation of the apparent paradox of imperfection arising from perfection.

 

[Larniavc]

It's Grace
Do you have children sir?
More than one?
Are they all exactly the same?

I have one and yes, he is exactly the same.

I don't get your point.

 

[miknik5]

No, I'm arguing the logic.
I'm waiting for a logical explanation of the apparent paradox of imperfection arising from perfection.

Here's the thing GOD did not have to create man for HIM to be GOD. But because HE knew the end from the beginning, HE knew that HE would, in the end, have a set apart people for HIS Glory who would glorify HIM. As. GOD

 

[miknik5]

I have one and yes, he is exactly the same.

I don't get your point.

GOD has Many and not one of them is EXACTLY the same

Do you get "my point" now?
If not read the last chapter of Jonah...

 

[miknik5]

And HE won't pick and choose one disobedient child child over and against and by comparison to the other

There isn't one child "better" or "worse". All Have sinned all have fallen short of His perfect and Holy Image...(the image we were initially created in)...

GOD is perfect. HE doesn't Change nor does HE have to change because HE is perfect and holy and just and true and good and gracious and long-suffering and love...

HE doesn't have to compromise HIS image for man's imperfect, foolish, fickle, forgetful, ever changing image...nor does HE have to conform HIS image to man's imperfect, foolish, forgetful, ever changing image.

So, how will HE be just when HE judges all HIS CHILDREN who have all sinned?

And how will HE have to Himself a set apart creation called by His Name

 

[Larniavc]

GOD has Many and not one of them is EXACTLY the same

Do you get "my point" now?
If not read the last chapter of Jonah...

I really have no idea what that has to do with creation being perfect or not.

It either is (and the fall was planned) or it was not perfect, initially.

 

[Chany]

Please remain on the thread topic, please. This forum is not for general apologetics.

 

[miknik5]

I really have no idea what that has to do with creation being perfect or not.

It either is (and the fall was planned) or it was not perfect, initially.

I really have no idea what that has to do with creation being perfect or not.

It either is (and the fall was planned) or it was not perfect, initially.

it has to do with the truth as presented in Romans 8. Namely that all of creation was made subject to vanity so that those who are being made subject to the One who will make all things New (at His coming) will wait by HOPE in HIM and so that THIS HOPE in HIM ALONE will prove genuine resulting in HIS (deserved) praise and glory

 

[miknik5]

Please remain on the thread topic, please. This forum is not for general apologetics.

Please remain on the thread topic, please. This forum is not for general apologetics.

Ok. I guess that means I should not post here...

 

[Larniavc]

Namely that all of creation was made subject to vanity

I understand.

Creation was not perfect as it was created with vanity in it. Thanks for the clarification.

I do wonder why God made creation not perfect, though.

ABE: oops, forgot about apologetics.

 

[miknik5]

I understand.

Creation was not perfect as it was created with vanity in it. Thanks for the clarification.

I do wonder why God made creation not perfect, though.

No you don't understand. As GOD'S WORD has clearly said, GOD'S WORD overrides all men's words and "supposed understanding".

HE said, all creation...even those things that shouldn't have been effected by man having sinned...were made subject to decay, showing that initially, man was not supposed to have died...physically OR spiritually.