• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

From faith to fact.

TLK Valentine

I've already read the books you want burned.
Apr 15, 2012
64,493
30,323
Behind the 8-ball, but ahead of the curve.
✟541,582.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Really now? That's a strange thought.

Who gets to decide what is truly "unoriginal?"

The people who've heard the same thing over and over.... what do you think "unoriginal" means?
 
Upvote 0

TLK Valentine

I've already read the books you want burned.
Apr 15, 2012
64,493
30,323
Behind the 8-ball, but ahead of the curve.
✟541,582.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
  • Like
Reactions: tyke
Upvote 0

amariselle

Jesus Never Fails
Sep 28, 2004
6,648
4,201
The Great Northern Wilderness
✟75,570.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
The people who've heard the same thing over and over.... what do you think "unoriginal" means?

Well, in that case Darwinian Evolution is "unoriginal" as well.

Everything is, actually. There is "nothing new under the sun" after all.
 
Upvote 0

amariselle

Jesus Never Fails
Sep 28, 2004
6,648
4,201
The Great Northern Wilderness
✟75,570.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Upvote 0

TLK Valentine

I've already read the books you want burned.
Apr 15, 2012
64,493
30,323
Behind the 8-ball, but ahead of the curve.
✟541,582.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Well, in that case Darwinian Evolution is "unoriginal" as well.

As a matter of fact, yes. The concept of evolution had been around for hundreds, perhaps thousands of years, before Darwin -- but the problem was that nobody could quite figure out how it happened.

All Darwin really did was propose a mechanism -- natural selection -- which explained why certain traits were preserved, and some were eliminated.

That's all "Darwinian evolution" means, really -- speciation through natural selection.

Everything is, actually. There is "nothing new under the sun" after all.

Again, that is somewhat true -- and if quoting the Bible makes you feel better about your own banality, who am I to deny you?
 
Upvote 0

TLK Valentine

I've already read the books you want burned.
Apr 15, 2012
64,493
30,323
Behind the 8-ball, but ahead of the curve.
✟541,582.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Perhaps you haven't been reading carefully what has been presented here.

Oh well.

Perhaps I have. Perhaps you're simply not as convincing or as impressive as you think you are.
 
Upvote 0

amariselle

Jesus Never Fails
Sep 28, 2004
6,648
4,201
The Great Northern Wilderness
✟75,570.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Speaking of good arguments (or lack there of), I'm still waiting for you to address my question.

Ha ha, as a former Christian, you know the answer.

Why is it that you repeatedly ask rhetorical questions and then object when they aren't answered?

Do you enjoy playing these games? (And yes, that is also a rhetorical question) ;)
 
Upvote 0

amariselle

Jesus Never Fails
Sep 28, 2004
6,648
4,201
The Great Northern Wilderness
✟75,570.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
As a matter of fact, yes. The concept of evolution had been around for hundreds, perhaps thousands of years, before Darwin -- but the problem was that nobody could quite figure out how it happened.

All Darwin really did was propose a mechanism -- natural selection -- which explained why certain traits were preserved, and some were eliminated.

That's all "Darwinian evolution" means, really -- speciation through natural selection.

Except, Darwinian Evolution hasn't explained everything it claims to explain.

Again, that is somewhat true -- and if quoting the Bible makes you feel better about your own banality, who am I to deny you?

Well, in actuality, you can't deny anyone their choice of beliefs. No one can, we all choose for ourselves.
 
Upvote 0

Archaeopteryx

Wanderer
Jul 1, 2007
22,229
2,608
✟78,240.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Well, in actuality, you can't deny anyone their choice of beliefs. No one can, we all choose for ourselves.
As I said earlier:
We may be able to choose what we do in response to the evidence for a particular claim, but we cannot choose whether a claim is justified by the evidence. Perhaps an example would help. Years of research established that lead was a toxin whose environmental levels were increasing in tandem with its industrial and commercial uses. Since this clearly poses a public health problem, politicians must choose what to do in response. They can impose regulations banning the use of lead in certain products; they can create laws concerning the safe use of industrial lead and its disposal; they can replace existing lead-based products, and so on. But whether the conclusions regarding lead's toxicity are warranted is determined by the research evidence on that topic, and not by whatever they may wish to be true.
 
Upvote 0

amariselle

Jesus Never Fails
Sep 28, 2004
6,648
4,201
The Great Northern Wilderness
✟75,570.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
As I said earlier:

And yet, how does that claim apply to something scientists cannot study or verify through repeated experimentation and observation?

When that happens we do indeed have a choice, but it requires faith.

Because, the truth is, we do not have all the answers in life.
 
Upvote 0

Archaeopteryx

Wanderer
Jul 1, 2007
22,229
2,608
✟78,240.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
And yet, how does that claim apply to something scientists cannot study or verify through repeated experimentation and observation?

When that happens we do indeed have a choice, but it requires faith.

Because, the truth is, we do not have all the answers in life.
It seems to me that, when you get to a point of "I don't know," the only intellectually honest thing to do would be to admit that you don't know, not to pretend to know.
 
Upvote 0

amariselle

Jesus Never Fails
Sep 28, 2004
6,648
4,201
The Great Northern Wilderness
✟75,570.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Is that going to be your excuse for not answering the question, again?

A rhetorical question isn't posed with the need for an answer. It presupposes an answer, because the answer is obvious. A rhetorical question is asked simply to make a point.

So, how is refusing to answer a question that is not really a question, an excuse?
 
Upvote 0

Archaeopteryx

Wanderer
Jul 1, 2007
22,229
2,608
✟78,240.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
A rhetorical question isn't posed with the need for an answer. It presupposes an answer, because the answer is obvious. A rhetorical question is asked simply to make a point.

So, how is refusing to answer a question that is not really a question, an excuse?
Because the question wasn't rhetorical. You never indicated what that something else was, leaving the question open. And I suspect you don't want to answer it now because it would force you to admit that there are dogmas you should not question, contrary to what you implied earlier in our conversation.
 
Upvote 0

JacksBratt

Searching for Truth
Site Supporter
Jul 5, 2014
16,294
6,495
63
✟596,843.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
You missed the point. You're assuming that 1: a book or other story has one and only one "true" meaning, and 2: Becoming a Christian will automatically clue you in to the "true" meaning of the Bible.

It's adorable, it really is -- if a touch naive.



Overlooking the whole "God wrote the Bible" nonsense you're heavily implying, doesn't the fact that the Bible is a primarily Jewish book, written almost entirely by Jewish authors involving famous Jewish characters, mean that in order to do more than scratch the surface, one should know Jewish history, language, culture, and customs?

It would make sense, and yet 99% of the people I've met who "know the author" wouldn't know a midrash from a hole in the ground, and still insist that Jesus wasn't a Jew. Funny, ain't it?



Except you didn't make a point -- you conflated the effort involved in learning a new language with the gift of God to instantly and effortlessly understnad the "true" meaning of the Bible.



You sound disappointed... don't.



Which is kind of funny, since I matter nothing to their agenda... or yours.



But not the last one, right? That's one's going to be special, you betcha.



You may be right -- but then again, one of the defining traits of humanity is the ability to keep moving forward -- sometimes in spite of itself.



They do -- and would happily see me under their heel, "for my own good," of course.



Simple people tend to stop at simple answers. Reality is not so simple, however.



Well, seeing as how we're all humans, that presents a conundrum, doesn't it?



Meaning that nobody in human history has ever done it right -- and there is precious little reason to believe anyone who says they already have.



Because it's the writing about a creator -- written by real people just like you and me. That seems to be the part you're stuck on.

Well, I can see you know everything. You have it all figured out in a package with a big red ribbon. So, I guess there's no real point in going forward since it's all just a book like Harry Potter or The Hunger Games.

Have a nice day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amariselle
Upvote 0

amariselle

Jesus Never Fails
Sep 28, 2004
6,648
4,201
The Great Northern Wilderness
✟75,570.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
It seems to me that, when you get to a point of "I don't know," the only intellectually honest thing to do would be to admit that you don't know, not to pretend to know.

Exactly. That is precisely what I've been saying.
 
Upvote 0