• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Romans 6 Obedience to the Word of God - under Grace

bbbbbbb

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2015
30,944
14,039
74
✟438,494.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Hope you don't mind being quoted

Good quotes. He merely points out the obvious - that you have a holey Bible in which you have deleted major sections in order to craft your theology. Please let us know when, and if, you ever decide to include all of God commandments in your bible.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,429
11,960
Georgia
✟1,104,325.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW by our faith? God forbid! IN fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

And 1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" even in the NT -- still

In Romans 3:19-20 Paul explains the term "UNDER the LAW" means condemned by the LAW as a sinner and going to hell.

So then in Romans 6 the point is made for those who are under the Gospel and no longer going to hell. Does Paul say in Romans 6 that continued rebellion against the LAW of God is going to work for Christians??

So then Romans 6 "Under the LAW" vs "Under Grace"

Rom 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
..

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.



Good quotes. He merely points out the obvious

Thanks - and you are right - this text points out the obvious.
 
Upvote 0

bbbbbbb

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2015
30,944
14,039
74
✟438,494.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW by our faith? God forbid! IN fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

And 1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" even in the NT -- still

In Romans 3:19-20 Paul explains the term "UNDER the LAW" means condemned by the LAW as a sinner and going to hell.

So then in Romans 6 the point is made for those who are under the Gospel and no longer going to hell. Does Paul say in Romans 6 that continued rebellion against the LAW of God is going to work for Christians??

So then Romans 6 "Under the LAW" vs "Under Grace"

Rom 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
..

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.





Thanks - and you are right - this text points out the obvious.

Unfortunately, you do with my post what you do with your Bible - selectively parse it to support your pesonal view. Once again I will ask my question - Please let us know when, and if, you ever decide to include all of God commandments in your bible.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,429
11,960
Georgia
✟1,104,325.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Unfortunately, you do with my post what you do with your Bible - selectively parse it to support your pesonal view. Once again I will ask my question - Please let us know when, and if, you ever decide to include all of God commandments in your bible.

Hebrews 10:4-12 as I have so often referenced it
 
Upvote 0

Travis93

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 22, 2016
626
230
32
Lilesville NC
✟69,441.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Celibate
Nice. That excuses you from the sacrificial commandments, but what about all of the other commandments that have nothing to do with sacrifices?

Are you a king? If not, you don't have to worry about the laws for the king in Deuteronomy 17:14-20. Are you a woman? If not, you don't have to worry about childbirth. Are you a farmer? If not you won't have to worry about mixing seeds or letting the land rest on the sabbath year and Jubilee. Do you own servants? If not, you won't have to worry about releasing them after six years and not abusing them. Are you a judge? If not, don't worry about deciding who gets stoned or pays each other for damages. Not every law is for every person, even Jesus didn't "do" all of them, only the ones that applied to him. That's why Paul exhorts us to study to show ourselves approved, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). Divide the laws based on who they apply to in order to find out which are for you.
 
Upvote 0

bbbbbbb

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2015
30,944
14,039
74
✟438,494.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Are you a king? If not, you don't have to worry about the laws for the king in Deuteronomy 17:14-20. Are you a woman? If not, you don't have to worry about childbirth. Are you a farmer? If not you won't have to worry about mixing seeds or letting the land rest on the sabbath year and Jubilee. Do you own servants? If not, you won't have to worry about releasing them after six years and not abusing them. Are you a judge? If not, don't worry about deciding who gets stoned or pays each other for damages. Not every law is for every person, even Jesus didn't "do" all of them, only the ones that applied to him. That's why Paul exhorts us to study to show ourselves approved, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). Divide the laws based on who they apply to in order to find out which are for you.

Do you work? If not, then you don't need concern yourself about the seventh-day Sabbath, the seventh-year Sabbath, or the Year of Jubilee, not to mention all the particulars associated with Sabbath-keeping such as kindling a fire on the Sabbath.
 
Upvote 0

Travis93

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 22, 2016
626
230
32
Lilesville NC
✟69,441.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Celibate
Do you work? If not, then you don't need concern yourself about the seventh-day Sabbath, the seventh-year Sabbath, or the Year of Jubilee, not to mention all the particulars associated with Sabbath-keeping such as kindling a fire on the Sabbath.
Included in the sabbath command is the imperative to work the other six days.
Exodus 20:9 Six days shall thou labour, and do all thy work.
Deuteronomy 5:13 Six days shall thou labour, and do all thy work.
Paul also exhorts people to work.
2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we command you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
 
Upvote 0

bbbbbbb

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2015
30,944
14,039
74
✟438,494.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Included in the sabbath command is the imperative to work the other six days.
Exodus 20:9 Six days shall thou labour, and do all thy work.
Deuteronomy 5:13 Six days shall thou labour, and do all thy work.
Paul also exhorts people to work.
2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we command you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Now that we have established that you do work, when was the last time you kindled a fire on the Sabbath? When was the last time you drove a car on the Sabbath? When was the last time you cooked a hot meal on the Sabbath? When was the last year you enjoyed a full year of rest?
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,429
11,960
Georgia
✟1,104,325.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Unfortunately, you do with my post what you do with your Bible - selectively parse it to support your pesonal view. Once again I will ask my question - Please let us know when, and if, you ever decide to include all of God commandments in your bible.

Hebrews 10:4-12 as I have so often referenced it

Nice. That excuses you from the sacrificial commandments, but what about all of the other commandments that have nothing to do with sacrifices?

Like Lev 11 -- not eating rats??
 
Upvote 0

bugkiller

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2015
17,773
2,629
✟95,400.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Nice. That excuses you from the sacrificial commandments, but what about all of the other commandments that have nothing to do with sacrifices?
Unfortunately he violated his view of Mat 5:17-18. His type is so inconsistent its hilarious.

bugkiller
 
  • Like
Reactions: listed
Upvote 0

bugkiller

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2015
17,773
2,629
✟95,400.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Included in the sabbath command is the imperative to work the other six days.
Exodus 20:9 Six days shall thou labour, and do all thy work.
Deuteronomy 5:13 Six days shall thou labour, and do all thy work.
Paul also exhorts people to work.
2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we command you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
So then you obviously work 6 days a week for a living.. I doubt it.

bugkiller
 
  • Like
Reactions: listed
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,429
11,960
Georgia
✟1,104,325.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
My advice is don't travel tot he far east.

bugkiller

once again I find your logic "illusive" -


"Love Me and KEEP my Commandments" EX 20:6
"If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Give me the Bible "And the words IN the Bible" -- and not "the far east" as my rule of right and wrong
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,429
11,960
Georgia
✟1,104,325.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Nice. That excuses you from the sacrificial commandments, but what about all of the other commandments that have nothing to do with sacrifices?


"Love Me and KEEP my Commandments" EX 20:6
"If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

So then the TEN Commandments?

Or are you talking about not eating rats?
 
Upvote 0

bugkiller

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2015
17,773
2,629
✟95,400.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
once again I find your logic "illusive" -


"Love Me and KEEP my Commandments" EX 20:6
"If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Give me the Bible "And the words IN the Bible" -- and not "the far east" as my rule of right and wrong
Its hard to believe you're so limited.

bugkiller
 
  • Like
Reactions: listed
Upvote 0

bbbbbbb

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2015
30,944
14,039
74
✟438,494.00
Faith
Non-Denom
"Love Me and KEEP my Commandments" EX 20:6
"If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

So then the TEN Commandments?

Or are you talking about not eating rats?

Yet again you misquote me. What did you do yesterday (Saturday)? Did you kindle a fire? Did you eat a warm meal? Did you cook, or cause someone to cook, that warm meal? Did you drive an automobile?
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,429
11,960
Georgia
✟1,104,325.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Nice. That excuses you from the sacrificial commandments, but what about all of the other commandments that have nothing to do with sacrifices?


"Love Me and KEEP my Commandments" EX 20:6
"If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

So then the TEN Commandments?

Or are you talking about not eating rats?


Yet again you misquote me.

I never claim you wrote Ex 20, or John 14 or Rev 14.


What did you do yesterday (Saturday)? Did you kindle a fire?

Meanwhile --- back to the Bible....that you are ignoring in the case above.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,429
11,960
Georgia
✟1,104,325.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
The NEW Covenant writes the Law of God on the heart - Jeremiah 31:31-33.

And that same New Covenant is quoted in Hebrews 8:6-10 such that in Romans 3:31 Paul says "WHAT!? Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we establish the LAW of God"

Same thing He says about it in Romans 6.

No wonder BOTH the pro-Sunday and the pro-Bible-7th-day-Sabbath groups AGREE on some key details about the continued status of God's Commandments - God's Ten Commandments. Where the 5th commandment is the "First Commandment with a promise" Ephesians 6:2.
 
Upvote 0