Romans 6 Obedience to the Word of God - under Grace

[Sophrosyne]

Then there is where your analogy falters because someone who needs to go back to grade school wouldn't be accepted into college in the first place. Whichever way you look at it, you should still be incorporating what was taught to you in grade school rather than disregarding. Those who do not rank among the lawless.



Christ summarized the Mosaic Law as being about how to love God and how to love your neighbor, so the Mosaic Law precisely is the law of love and no other law is being talked about in Ezekiel. The Spirit certainly does not lead us in disobedience to what the Father has commanded, but rather the Spirit leads us in follow Christ's example of obedience to what the Father has commanded and guides is in loving God and loving our neighbor, but it is a logical fallacy to say that anyone who loves their neighbor is lead by the Spirit. From P therefore Q it does not follow that Q therefore P.

Argue with Paul... he said the Law was a tutor to bring us to Christ and now..... we don't need that tutor.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Excellent. Thus, we can be certain that the seventh-day Sabbath rest is also a rest for the land and people who grow crops or own slaves and does not apply to people like myself.

Especially since you don't own land in Israel

 

[Soyeong]

Excellent. Thus, we can be certain that the seventh-day Sabbath rest is also a rest for the land and people who grow crops or own slaves and does not apply to people like myself.

Laws often have conditions when they apply or don't apply. For example, the law to obey the speed limit does not apply to the police under certain conditions. Or it can be illegal to park in a certain area only during certain hours. Or the law to keep the Sabbath only applies once a week. Saying that the conditions under which a particular law applies have not been met is different from saying that we don't have to follow the law.

 

[Soyeong]

Argue with Paul... he said the Law was a tutor to bring us to Christ and now..... we don't need that tutor.

My disagreement is not with Paul, but with your understanding of a tutor. The point that someone no longer needs a tutor is when they have taken all of their tutor's lessons to heart and are able to do what they have been taught on their own without their tutor's prompting, so having no more need for a tutor is not at all the same as having no more need for what the tutor taught them. Sitting through all of a tutor's lessons and then disregarding everything they taught you when they leave would be completely missing the point of a tutor. God's law was given to teach us how to love God and our neighbors, so you say that we just need to love God and our neighbors and can ignore all of God's instructions for how He wants us to do that, then that would again be missing the point. Jesus taught his disciples how to love through his obedience to the law and we are told to follow his example.

 

[Sophrosyne]

My disagreement is not with Paul, but with your understanding of a tutor. The point that someone no longer needs a tutor is when they have taken all of their tutor's lessons to heart and are able to do what they have been taught on their own without their tutor's prompting, so having no more need for a tutor is not at all the same as having no more need for what the tutor taught them. Sitting through all of a tutor's lessons and then disregarding everything they taught you when they leave would be completely missing the point of a tutor. God's law was given to teach us how to love God and our neighbors, so you say that we just need to love God and our neighbors and can ignore all of God's instructions for how He wants us to do that, then that would again be missing the point. Jesus taught his disciples how to love through his obedience to the law and we are told to follow his example.

Or they simply have a BETTER tutor (The Holy Spirit).

 

[bugkiller]

Strong's defines "grace" as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life", and when God's will is reflected in our lives it takes the form of obedience to His commands. Grace is not an exemption from obeying God, but the means by which we can obey Him. God has given commands for the right way to live, so if you have faith in God that He knows how we should live, then you will obey His commands, not excuse disobedience. You can not move on to more advanced subjects like algebra by disregarding everything that you learned in grade school about addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, so if you show that you have not learned to do what was taught in grade school, then you need to go back to grade school.

You simply don't understand God changed the commands. A good passage is I JN 3:23 in context to JN 15:10.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

At no point did God limit His holiness, righteousness, and goodness to only the Ten Commandments. You would have to ignore most of the 1,050 commands of Jesus and in the rest of the NT to arrive at only ten.



Someone who eats an unhealthy diet can give you all sorts of factual information about how to eat a healthy diet, so someone not living rightly does not necessarily mean that their knowledge about how to live rightly is not factual. It should be straightforward that those who follow God ought to follow His commands, and I try to obey them.

So did God give permission to Noah to sin?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Yes Paul does, and often the law promoters don't take ANY time to look at context. The spirit doesn't lead us to obeying the Mosaic Law, it leads us to obeying Christs law of love, otherwise atheists who keep the Sabbath as tradition must have the Spirit which is utter nonsense.

Amen!

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Then there is where your analogy falters because someone who needs to go back to grade school wouldn't be accepted into college in the first place. Whichever way you look at it, you should still be incorporating what was taught to you in grade school rather than disregarding. Those who do not rank among the lawless.



Christ summarized the Mosaic Law as being about how to love God and how to love your neighbor, so the Mosaic Law precisely is the law of love and no other law is being talked about in Ezekiel. The Spirit certainly does not lead us in disobedience to what the Father has commanded, but rather the Spirit leads us in follow Christ's example of obedience to what the Father has commanded and guides is in loving God and loving our neighbor, but it is a logical fallacy to say that anyone who loves their neighbor is lead by the Spirit. From P therefore Q it does not follow that Q therefore P.

No the Spirit doesn't lead us to the law.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

The Sabbath year is a rest for the land and people who grow crops or own slaves should obey these commands.

Do you tithe your income? Why when only those who grow crops and raise animals tithe?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

And do you see that in Gen 2:1-3?

And can that be done outside of a theocracy?

Doesn't matter because if one observes any of the law they're obligated to observe all the law.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

My disagreement is not with Paul, but with your understanding of a tutor. The point that someone no longer needs a tutor is when they have taken all of their tutor's lessons to heart and are able to do what they have been taught on their own without their tutor's prompting, so having no more need for a tutor is not at all the same as having no more need for what the tutor taught them. Sitting through all of a tutor's lessons and then disregarding everything they taught you when they leave would be completely missing the point of a tutor. God's law was given to teach us how to love God and our neighbors, so you say that we just need to love God and our neighbors and can ignore all of God's instructions for how He wants us to do that, then that would again be missing the point. Jesus taught his disciples how to love through his obedience to the law and we are told to follow his example.

Would you kindly tell us how one can love and murder?

bugkiller

 

[Sophrosyne]

Would you kindly tell us how one can love and murder?

bugkiller

Also tell us about folks who hate their neighbor while keeping the Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

Doesn't matter because if one observes any of the law they're obligated to observe all the law.

bugkiller

We get that a lot from people who would like to bow down and serve images during church service. I am sure you are not one of them - but you appear to like the same argument used to avoid the commandment.

next.

 

[BobRyan]

how is it that Romans 6, Romans 3 etc are being "avoided like the plague" on this thread even though the OP has this?

===============================================

Romans 6 requires obedience to the word of God - under grace.

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW by our faith? God forbid! IN fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

And 1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" even in the NT -- still

In Romans 3:19-20 Paul explains the term "UNDER the LAW" means condemned by the LAW as a sinner and going to hell.

So then in Romans 6 the point is made for those who are under the Gospel and no longer going to hell. Does Paul say in Romans 6 that continued rebellion against the LAW of God is going to work for Christians??

So then Romans 6 "Under the LAW" vs "Under Grace"

Rom 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
..

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.



1 Cor 6
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Cor 7:19 .. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

 

[BobRyan]

Bible avoidance is not the solution to every problem.

 

[BobRyan]

A great post that goes along with this thread -

Hello Bob.

Your quotation from the letter to the Romans is simply misguided. You cannot quote from chapter
two of the letter to the Romans, and not consider the context of the later chapters.

 

[bugkiller]

We get that a lot from people who would like to bow down and serve images during church service. I am sure you are not one of them - but you appear to like the same argument used to avoid the commandment.

next.

Not at all. Its the argument of Paul and James.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Bible avoidance is not the solution to every problem.

Not a Swiss cheese Bible is though.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Bible avoidance is not the solution to every problem.

No a Swiss cheese Bible is though.

bugkiller

Hope you don't mind being quoted