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Gal 4 "under the Law" vs "under Grace" in Romans 6 and not sinning

BABerean2

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Our sinful nature is what is supposed to change, not God's perfect laws. It's easier for heaven and earth to pass away before the law does (Matthew 7:18, Luke 16:17).

You left out one little important word. "till"


Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


The children of Israel made a contract with God they could not keep. As a matter of fact no normal human could keep it.

However, the Messiah kept it perfectly.

He fulfilled it at the Cross and made it obsolete. (Hebrews 8:13)

When the veil in the temple was torn it showed that the sacrifices, the Levitical priesthood, and the whole Old Covenant had just been fulfilled by Christ with the words... "It is finished."


The Old covenant holy days, meats, and Sabbath were the shadow. He is the body.

In other words the Sabbath has a name. That name is Jesus Christ.

Paul clearly says this in the text below.


Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:


Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


That same word "till" is found in Galatians chapter 3.


Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The law was "added" because of transgressions "until" the Seed (Christ) could come.


We are now under the Law of Christ.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.




 
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Travis93

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Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentacost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 12:3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread).
Acts 18:21 But he bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.
Acts 20:6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; were we abode seven days.
Acts 20:16 For Paul determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentacost.
Acts 27:9 Now when much time was spent, and the sailing was now dangerous, because the fast was now already past, Paul admonished them.
 
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Travis93

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That verse proves all the more that we should keep it. Notice it says let no man judge you. God himself is going to judge you for it since he's the one who created the law, not man. If anything, that verse means don't let unbelievers judge you for keeping God's laws.
 
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BABerean2

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That verse proves all the more that we should keep it. Notice it says let no man judge you. God himself is going to judge you for it since he's the one who created the law, not man. If anything, that verse means don't let unbelievers judge you for keeping God's laws.

The next verse says those things were but a shadow of Christ.

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The Sabbath has a name and it is not Saturday or Sunday.

The Sabbath's name is Yeshua.

.
 
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Travis93

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If God's laws really are abolished, then was Zechariah a false prophet?
Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
How about Isaiah, who prophesies that even after the new heaven and earth are created, this will happen?
Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
And of course, the prophesies about the law going forth from Jerusalem has to be lies as well: Isaiah 2:2-3, Micah 4:2-3, Isaiah 51:4
 
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BABerean2

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If God's laws really are abolished, then was Zechariah a false prophet?

Christ did not abolish the Sinai covenant. He fulfilled it.

Nobody else could fulfill the contract.

Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

There is a time coming, when all who belong to Him will come to worship Him, within a period of seven days.
It will most probably be within a period of one day.


Also, remember that Isaiah 66 is occuring in the New Heavens and the New Earth.


Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.





.
 
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Bob S

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Christ did not abolish the Sinai covenant. He fulfilled it.

Nobody else could fulfill the contract.

Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

There is a time coming, when all who belong to Him will come to worship Him, within a period of seven days.
It will most probably be within a period of one day.


Also, remember that Isaiah 66 is occuring in the New Heavens and the New Earth.


Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.





.
And (links the two thoughts) they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

Sounds like a fun time activity for the Sabbath afternoon walk. Also in the earth made new men will live out their lives and live as long as a tree. Is65:17 “See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I will create,“Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach a hundred
will be considered accursed.

22 For as the days of a tree,
so will be the days of my people;
my chosen ones will long enjoy
the work of their hands.
23 They will not labor in vain,
nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune;
 
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Bob S

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If God's laws really are abolished, then was Zechariah a false prophet?
Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Yep, if Israel had not failed in its attempt to live as God required many thing would have been different, but they did fail and the covenant was removed from them, but it was not removed from them leaving them covenant-less, we ara under the new and better covenant.
How about Isaiah, who prophesies that even after the new heaven and earth are created, this will happen?
Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
An why didn't you finish Isiah's thought? “And (links the two thoughts) they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

And of course, the prophesies about the law going forth from Jerusalem has to be lies as well: Isaiah 2:2-3, Micah 4:2-3, Isaiah 51:4
If you say so. Of course you have not been batting very well.
 
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BobRyan

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Christ did not abolish the Sinai covenant. He fulfilled it.

Nobody else could fulfill the contract.

Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

There is a time coming, when all who belong to Him will come to worship Him, within a period of seven days.
It will most probably be within a period of one day.


Also, remember that Isaiah 66 is occuring in the New Heavens and the New Earth.


Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

It will be "from SABBATH to SABBATH shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" - Is 66:23
 
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BobRyan

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In the OT Isaiah 66:23 states explicitly that the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" in Is 66:23
In Gen 2:1-3 the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" -- Adam and Eve.
In Mark 2:27 the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" -- "The Sabbath was made for mankind"
In Rev 14:7 it is all mankind that is called to worship God who "created the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water" - a quote from the Sabbath commandment
in Heb 4 "There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people God" actually quotes the Sabbath Commandment and says it 'remains' just as it was in Psalms 95.
In Rev 14:12 the saints "KEEP the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus".
In 56:1-8 the Gentiles are singled out and specifically blessed for keeping the weekly Sabbath.
James 2 points specifically to the TEN Commandments and says that the common element that would make us "guilty of all" is based on "He who said" -- and as it turns out God said all ten of them not just nine.
In Eph 6:2 - the entire unit of TEN is being identified when the text says "Honor thy father and mother for this is the FIRST commandment with a promise" -- that requires a specific unit of Law -- and is only true of the TEN.
Ex 20:8-11 it is BOTH Israel AND the gentile that "stays within their gates" that is bound to keep the Sabbath.
In Acts 18:4 both Gentiles AND Jews are worshiping "every Sabbath" so also in Acts 17:1-4 so also in Acts 13.

Many will admit that the Jews would have known that the TEN Commandments - including the 4th Commandment were included in the "LAW of God" - so then when Jeremiah says that the NEW Covenant includes God writing His "LAW on our heart and mind" both Jeremiah and HIS readers would have known that it was sin to violate the Sabbath and that the 4th Commandment was included in God's moral LAW
 
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BobRyan

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If God's laws really are abolished, then was Zechariah a false prophet?
Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
How about Isaiah, who prophesies that even after the new heaven and earth are created, this will happen?
Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
And of course, the prophesies about the law going forth from Jerusalem has to be lies as well: Isaiah 2:2-3, Micah 4:2-3, Isaiah 51:4

Good point
 
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BABerean2

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It will be "from SABBATH to SABBATH shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" - Is 66:23

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

.
 
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BobRyan

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Indeed that would be "For all eternity after the cross" and applicable to "all mankind" even by OT standards.

==============OT pre-cross statements affirm the SAbbath for Gentiles

In the OT Isaiah 66:23 states explicitly that the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" in Is 66:23
In Gen 2:1-3 the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" -- Adam and Eve.
In Mark 2:27 the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" -- "The Sabbath was made for mankind"
in Heb 4 "There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people God" actually quotes the Sabbath Commandment and says it 'remains' just as it was in Psalms 95.
In 56:1-8 the Gentiles are singled out and specifically blessed for keeping the weekly Sabbath.
Ex 20:8-11 it is BOTH Israel AND the gentile that "stays within their gates" that is bound to keep the Sabbath.

==================

Now wonder we see gentiles in the synagogues "Every Sabbath" keeping the Sabbath commandment of the TEN Commandments. In Acts 18:4 and in Acts 17:1-5 and in Acts 13. And they do this even while hearing Gospel preaching Sabbath after Sabbath.
 
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BABerean2

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Indeed that would be "For all eternity after the cross" and applicable to "all mankind" even by OT standards.

==============OT pre-cross statements affirm the SAbbath for Gentiles

In the OT Isaiah 66:23 states explicitly that the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" in Is 66:23
In Gen 2:1-3 the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" -- Adam and Eve.
In Mark 2:27 the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" -- "The Sabbath was made for mankind"
in Heb 4 "There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people God" actually quotes the Sabbath Commandment and says it 'remains' just as it was in Psalms 95.
In 56:1-8 the Gentiles are singled out and specifically blessed for keeping the weekly Sabbath.
Ex 20:8-11 it is BOTH Israel AND the gentile that "stays within their gates" that is bound to keep the Sabbath.

==================

Now wonder we see gentiles in the synagogues "Every Sabbath" keeping the Sabbath commandment of the TEN Commandments. In Acts 18:4 and in Acts 17:1-5 and in Acts 13. And they do this even while hearing Gospel preaching Sabbath after Sabbath.

Go ahead and tell all of us that you are keeping the Sabbath and all of the other commandments, just like Jesus did...


Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


.

 
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BABerean2

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That has nothing to do with the subject. Might as well post that when someone affirms "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

The subject is modern day Judaisers who are continuing to battle against what the Apostles clearly taught in the New Testament.

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Gal 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.




Shut Door Documents from the Estate of Ellen G. White
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html


.
 
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BobRyan

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The subject is modern day Judaisers who are continuing to battle against what the Apostles clearly taught in the New Testament.

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

You are skipping over details ... coming to false conclusions -- ignoring the points in the texts given. So then.. a problem in all your conclusions is much expected - and no surprise.

For example -

Acts 15:1-2 entirely glossed over in your reference
Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question

1. - a made up rule - not at all found in the OT -- but you apparently did not wish to quote it.
2. Solution included the letter sent out AND this observation - Acts 15:21 " Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

Gentiles hear the Gospel "Every Sabbath" in Acts 18:4
Gentiles hear the Gospel in the synagogue Sabbath after Sabbath after Sabbath Acts 17:4.
Gentiles hear the Gospel in the synagogue - Sabbath after Sabbath - Acts 13.

And of course in Acts 15 - nothing at all about "do not take God's name in vain", nor "Love God with all your heart" nor "Do not covet" nor "Honor your father and mother".... All of which - like the Sabbath in Hebrews 4 and Isaiah 66:23 remain for NT saints.




 
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BobRyan

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Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Gal 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again
.

I may not have quoted this from Gal 4 twenty times by now - please help me not forget to do it - if I forget in the future.

==============================

The term "under the LAW" in Gal 4 -- in its most favorable light - means under the obligation of the ceremonial law apart from faith. But in general Paul uses the term with respect to condemnation under the moral of God without the Gospel benefit of salvation.

The end of Galatians 4 is not about condemning the Word of God in the OT - it is the use of an allegory to demonstrate that the LAW of God is not a second-gospel a competing-gospel and never was. Period.

Gal 4
21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law?

<Paul is not saying "tell me you want want to affirm scripture - the Word of God -- how dare you not condemn scripture" > Rather Paul is addressing those who want to use the Law as a gospel.

Gal 4
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. 23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. 24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. 27 For it is written,

“Rejoice, barren woman who does not bear;
Break forth and shout, you who are not in labor;
For more numerous are the children of the desolate
Than of the one who has a husband.”

NOTE: "Jerusalem above" was there in both OT and NT times. This is not a condemnation of the OT text of scripture. In fact it is in the OT that we find the NEW Covenant "I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 - what is more "for it is written" is a reference to the still-authoritative OT text - as scripture.

Gal 4
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. 30 But what does the Scripture say?

“Cast out the bondwoman and her son,
For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman.”

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

NOTE: "Him who is born of the Spirit" is the same pre-cross teaching we see from Christ in John 3 - speaking to Nicodemus. Far from being a condemnation of pre-cross teaching - it affirms it.
 
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BobRyan

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More in the OP that has probably not been quoted 20 times yet.

=============================

Rom 9
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.

1 John 3:4 - "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" both in OT and also by NT standards

So then in Rom 6 Paul speaks about the obligation not to SIN - even though not "under the law" -- not under the condemnation of the LAW.

Rom 6
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered

1 john 2:1 "these things I write to you that you sin NOT"

The Covenant at Sinai with Israel included
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

And 40 years later Moses reminds them --
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

Christ continues to affirm them in Matt 22 , pre-cross - the Law of Moses upheld.

So then why is Paul associating Sinai with the old covenant in Gal 4?

Because the ceremonial law is no longer in effect.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" as compared to the ceremonial laws such as circumcision - as we see in this example from 1Cor 7:19
 
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