Gal 4 "under the Law" vs "under Grace" in Romans 6 and not sinning

[1John2:4]

1Jn, Instead of angrily raking me over the coals in your last post wouldn't it have been nice if you would have addressed my last post and debated what I wrote? I have asked you to please answer what I write. I have given you "proof", the problem is that you refuse to tell me where I am wrong. If you really want to know what I think about how you have responded to my posts I will tell you Just read your last response and compare it with my last response. It is evident that you don't want to know what I believe, all you want to do is present your side and expect me to kowtow, I don't need to be lectured to my friend. I have claimed the promises found in the New Testament. I have claimed the "better" covenant provided by our Savior Jesus Christ and I live by His commands to believe in Him and love others as He loves us. Yes, it is a different covenant and yes Israel failed in keeping the old covenant and God did not abandon them, but provided a new way to live. If you prefer the old way that is your choice. We cannot make you drink of the glorious new way. It is too bad that when you see the light of the new covenant you will not entertain even discussing it.

It is your move now. Either debate by answering my Biblical thoughts as I have answered your thoughts or just stop the nonsense you spouted in your last post.

1Jn, Instead of angrily raking me over the coals in your last post wouldn't it have been nice if you would have addressed my last post and debated what I wrote? I have asked you to please answer what I write. I have given you "proof", the problem is that you refuse to tell me where I am wrong. If you really want to know what I think about how you have responded to my posts I will tell you Just read your last response and compare it with my last response. It is evident that you don't want to know what I believe, all you want to do is present your side and expect me to kowtow, I don't need to be lectured to my friend. I have claimed the promises found in the New Testament. I have claimed the "better" covenant provided by our Savior Jesus Christ and I live by His commands to believe in Him and love others as He loves us. Yes, it is a different covenant and yes Israel failed in keeping the old covenant and God did not abandon them, but provided a new way to live. If you prefer the old way that is your choice. We cannot make you drink of the glorious new way. It is too bad that when you see the light of the new covenant you will not entertain even discussing it.

It is your move now. Either debate by answering my Biblical thoughts as I have answered your thoughts or just stop the nonsense you spouted in your last post.

What is the new way to live? Just to believe in Jesus and do what is right in our own opinion? What does the book of James say about belief without action? Faith without works is dead... Believe means to obey, not just think it in your head. In 1st John, he knew that Yeshua is the living Torah and the standard for righteousness is the same, that did not change in Any covenant.That is why he defines what sin is. Sin is transgression of the law or sin is lawlessness 1 John 3:4

I am not angry with you my friend, I am concerned for you, that you are being lead away with the error of lawless men. Abolished, fulfilled, not relavent to believers, what ever word or phrase you use to proclaim that the law is not for us today, that is lawlessness. Don't be deceived, without law means lawlessness. We need the law to bring us to Yeshua so we can be repent and be saved. Saved from our sin, not saved from Gods law. Let's not get rid of the schoolmasters that brings us to Him we need conviction, we need the fear of the Lord.

 

[Bob S]

What is the new way to live? Just to believe in Jesus and do what is right in our own opinion?

Have you not considered anything I have written? Do you really not know that I have written that I am under the law of love which is a much higher standard than the old covenant. I am really tired of defending your accusations.

What does the book of James say about belief without action? Faith without works is dead... Believe means to obey, not just think it in your head.

James was not referring that it is the works of the law. James was referring to works as in good deeds. I would nave thought you would have known that. If you use James as an excuse to use what he wrote to do the works of the old covenant you are deceived.

In 1st John, he knew that Yeshua is the living Torah and the standard for righteousness is the same, that did not change in Any covenant.That is why he defines what sin is. Sin is transgression of the law or sin is lawlessness 1 John 3:4

Question I would really like for you to answer: why did John in the same chapter tell us what are duty is to Jesus and it is not keeping Torah.
19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

I am not angry with you my friend,

You sure fooled me. Read your post again.

I am concerned for you, that you are being lead away with the error of lawless men. Abolished, fulfilled, not relavent to believers, what ever word or phrase you use to proclaim that the law is not for us today, that is lawlessness.

And I am concerned for you that you have not assimilated what I have posted.

Don't be deceived, without law means lawlessness.

Again it appears you have not assimilated any of my posts. All you seem to be doing is parroting what those of your belief system say about all other Christians. You are definitely not candid.

We need the law to bring us to Yeshua so we can be repent and be saved.

That is what the Apostle Paul wrote in Gal 3. That is all the law can do. It cannot save.

Saved from our sin, not saved from Gods law. Let's not get rid of the schoolmasters that brings us to Him we need conviction, we need the fear of the Lord.

Funny you use Paul's word Schoolmaster yet you refuse to believe his word about the same law ending with Jesus found in the same chapter.

 

[Travis93]

What use is a schoolmaster if you don't retain the lessons you learned from them? The law leads us to Jesus to be forgiven, but then we are to start following it. After all, Jesus kept the law, we are called to walk as he walked (1 John 2:6), so how can you do that while breaking the law? 1 John 3:4 says sin is transgression of the law, Romans 3:31 says faith doesn't void the law, and Romans 6:15 says we shouldn't sin just because we have grace.

 

[love2obey]

Sorry, I don't consider your posts anymore. You refuse to answer our questions and give nothing but a bunch of nothing.

Bob as a believer of the Almighty and His word is the bible, we are to present the truth as it is written and not how we want to interpret it. The bible is for us today to know God as He is: the God of yesterday, today and tomorrow who loves us all. He does not differ or favor age, nation, sex or color of skin. The God I know does not approve of sin and loves all sinners. When I pray to God, I expect the same love and mercy that He showed to Abraham and Moses. Now it is up to me to have the same faith.

also Bob, I dont read a book where there are 2 Gods one for the Jews and one God for the Gentile, therefore, I dont have answers that go alone with your beliefs. With all do respect, I have never read a Torah nor I care for since I have and read the bible. Furthermore, I believe in a book called the bible that I take to the heart as the word of God who created the heavens and Earth and all that is in them. In His eternal wisdom, He created all that is good. Good enough to last eternity as it was all created that includes His word. All these changes that have happened since have been because man made them and not God; that Includes to His teachings prior to Jesus and after Jesus.

On regards to considering my post, I have thought of it myself. we are talking and believe in 2 different God. we will never understand each other.

 

[1John2:4]

I can't teach, I get angry, the last two verses show anyone can be wrong in what they say pastors anyone.
Matthew chapter 4 verse 4
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
Romans chapter 1 verse 28
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

John chapter 8 verse 31,32
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, " If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
2 John
9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
Job chapter 23 verse 12
I have not departed from the commands of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread.

Matthew 11
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Luke chapter 21
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Romans chapter 10
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
James chapter 3 verse 1 and 2
3 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2 We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.

I am sorry if what I said made you angry, let me help you understand what I was trying to say, In case my post was confusing. I think we should be good Bareans and search the scriptures for ourselfs, test what is being taught by teachers and preachers. Not just assume it is truth because it is coming from the pulpit. I said nothing against believing and trusting the Word. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[BABerean2]

What use is a schoolmaster if you don't retain the lessons you learned from them? The law leads us to Jesus to be forgiven, but then we are to start following it. After all, Jesus kept the law, we are called to walk as he walked (1 John 2:6), so how can you do that while breaking the law? 1 John 3:4 says sin is transgression of the law, Romans 3:31 says faith doesn't void the law, and Romans 6:15 says we shouldn't sin just because we have grace.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.



Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

.

 

[bugkiller]

What use is a schoolmaster if you don't retain the lessons you learned from them? The law leads us to Jesus to be forgiven, but then we are to start following it. After all, Jesus kept the law, we are called to walk as he walked (1 John 2:6), so how can you do that while breaking the law? 1 John 3:4 says sin is transgression of the law, Romans 3:31 says faith doesn't void the law, and Romans 6:15 says we shouldn't sin just because we have grace.

There goes all hope for everyone.

bugkiller

 

[Travis93]

There goes all hope for everyone.

bugkiller

Repent.

Ezekiel 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Ezekiel 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

 

[bugkiller]

Bob as a believer of the Almighty and His word is the bible, we are to present the truth as it is written and not how we want to interpret it. The bible is for us today to know God as He is: the God of yesterday, today and tomorrow who loves us all. He does not differ or favor age, nation, sex or color of skin. The God I know does not approve of sin and loves all sinners. When I pray to God, I expect the same love and mercy that He showed to Abraham and Moses. Now it is up to me to have the same faith.

also Bob, I dont read a book where there are 2 Gods one for the Jews and one God for the Gentile, therefore, I dont have answers that go alone with your beliefs. With all do respect, I have never read a Torah nor I care for since I have and read the bible. Furthermore, I believe in a book called the bible that I take to the heart as the word of God who created the heavens and Earth and all that is in them. In His eternal wisdom, He created all that is good. Good enough to last eternity as it was all created that includes His word. All these changes that have happened since have been because man made them and not God; that Includes to His teachings prior to Jesus and after Jesus.

On regards to considering my post, I have thought of it myself. we are talking and believe in 2 different God. we will never understand each other.

You know what? I agree with your statement about us talking and believing in 2 different Gods.

bugkiller

 

[1John2:4]

James was not referring that it is the works of the law. James was referring to works as in good deeds. I would nave thought you would have known that. If you use James as an excuse to use what he wrote to do the works of the old covenant you are deceived.

Therefore lay aside all filthyness and overflow of wickedness and recieve the meekness of the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. The word is written on our hearts the whole word, not just the parts we pick and choose, the Word of God is not a buffet. James's book is using caring for the poor as an example because it discredits this unlawful idea of belief without actions. This is a very easy to apply example to just tell a poor person to be blessed and go, instead of helping them. The book of James also shows how Abraham offered his son to God, that was a work it's not talking about the poor. It is faith, true faith. He is proving a point. You believe there is One God. You do well. Even the demons believe and tremble.

 

[1John2:4]

Question I would really like for you to answer: why did John in the same chapter tell us what are duty is to Jesus and it is not keeping Torah.

I will answer yours when you answer mine, where is it prophecied the Torah is to be done away with in the new covenant? I believe I have asked many times yet have not revecied any answer.

 

[1John2:4]

Have you not considered anything I have written? Do you really not know that I have written that I am under the law of love which is a much higher standard than the old covenant. I am really tired of defending your accusations.


James was not referring that it is the works of the law. James was referring to works as in good deeds. I would nave thought you would have known that. If you use James as an excuse to use what he wrote to do the works of the old covenant you are deceived.


Question I would really like for you to answer: why did John in the same chapter tell us what are duty is to Jesus and it is not keeping Torah.
19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.


You sure fooled me. Read your post again.


And I am concerned for you that you have not assimilated what I have posted.


Again it appears you have not assimilated any of my posts. All you seem to be doing is parroting what those of your belief system say about all other Christians. You are definitely not candid.



That is what the Apostle Paul wrote in Gal 3. That is all the law can do. It cannot save.

Funny you use Paul's word Schoolmaster yet you refuse to believe his word about the same law ending with Jesus found in the same chapter.

I am truly sorry that you are offended from my replying, it seams that you are very sensitive in this matter and keep bringing emotions into this debate. I had no intention of hurting you and I am sorry for what I did. I am choosing not to debate you anymore because my words are tearing you down not building you up. I know in some of my posts my pride got the best of me and that was not helpful to you or the body of believers. I wish you well my friend.

 

[Bob S]

The book of James also shows how Abraham offered his son to God, that was a work it's not talking about the poor. It is faith, true faith. He is proving a point. You believe there is One God. You do well. Even the demons believe and tremble.

Your reference about Abraham offering Issac is a very poo illustration of having to keep the law. This is because there wasn't any law about offering Isaac. God was testing Abraham's faith. od is not testing our faith by our keeping laws meant for Israel only.

 

[Bob S]

I will answer yours when you answer mine, where is it prophecied the Torah is to be done away with in the new covenant? I believe I have asked many times yet have not revecied any answer.

You really do not have to answer that question for you know good and well what John wrote that we are doing right when we keep the law of love and love Jesus. Jesus is God you know.

 

[Bob S]

I am truly sorry that you are offended from my replying, it seams that you are very sensitive in this matter and keep bringing emotions into this debate.

Yes, I have become "sensitive" sensitive because you refuse to debate. Instead you lecture and will not even consider any scripture I have offered. On the other hand I have been diligent in answering your questions and the scripture you have offered.
You ask

where is it prophecied the Torah is to be done away with in the new covenant? I believe I have asked many times yet have not revecied any answer.

Sorry, I thought I had already related the answer. Heb 8:8 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.

See it. It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors. I will make this new covenant because they did not remain faithful to the Sinai covenant.

I had no intention of hurting you and I am sorry for what I did.

You have not "hurt" me in any way. I know to whom I believe and he is faithful to keep me through eternity. I am hurt because you will not debate in a fair manner. Maybe it is because you have never been involved in a debate, but when I ask you to change your method you went right on doing the same thing, too bad.

I am choosing not to debate you anymore because my words are tearing you down not building you up.

That brings a chuckle friend. Your words only make me sad for you. I know I am saved and because I am saved I want to do God's will. His will for Christians is that we love all the children He has made, love them as Jesus loves us. I have not read a peep from you stating anything about love. Your goal in pleasing God is observing the old covenant which was made for the Israelites.

I have expressed love for others and you have expressed old covenant law keeping for yourself.

I know in some of my posts my pride got the best of me and that was not helpful to you or the body of believers. I wish you well my friend.

And I wish you the same.

 

[bugkiller]

Therefore lay aside all filthyness and overflow of wickedness and recieve the meekness of the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. The word is written on our hearts the whole word, not just the parts we pick and choose, the Word of God is not a buffet. James's book is using caring for the poor as an example because it discredits this unlawful idea of belief without actions. This is a very easy to apply example to just tell a poor person to be blessed and go, instead of helping them. The book of James also shows how Abraham offered his son to God, that was a work it's not talking about the poor. It is faith, true faith. He is proving a point. You believe there is One God. You do well. Even the demons believe and tremble.

Is worshipping on Sunday filthiness of the flesh?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I will answer yours when you answer mine, where is it prophecied the Torah is to be done away with in the new covenant? I believe I have asked many times yet have not revecied any answer.

Easy enough - Jer 31:31-33.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

You really do not have to answer that question for you know good and well what John wrote that we are doing right when we keep the law of love and love Jesus. Jesus is God you know.

But Jesus is not the Father.

bugkiller

 

[Bob S]

But Jesus is not the Father.

bugkiller

Hey brother, what's your point?

 

[Travis93]

Sorry, I thought I had already related the answer. Heb 8:8 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.

See it. It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors. I will make this new covenant because they did not remain faithful to the Sinai covenant.

So what, the new covenant is that since people didn't keep the law, get rid of it? What kind of warped logic is that? By that logic, when you arrest a criminal for stealing, you tell him he's no longer under the law against theft since he broke it.
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with house of Israel; after those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Our sinful nature is what is supposed to change, not God's perfect laws. It's easier for heaven and earth to pass away before the law does (Matthew 7:18, Luke 16:17).