Which is more viable for space colonization? (poll)

[Blondepudding]

But we won't know that unless we get up there. Also, as freezerman2000 asked, do you have a source for this claim?

Think how silly it is to imagine the far reaches of the universe and all that is up there out there is dead.
No life. It's absurd.
Astronomer Avi Loeb has given talks about life in the universe. Professor Barrie Jones of the Open University says there can be life on rocky masses as well.

A universe, universes, galaxies, with no life whatsoever? Not really possible. If people are talking about bipedal uprights like ourselves, that's just a stretch. But life otherwise is absolutely possible. Because an amazing outer reaches like what we see in the pictures that are sent back to earth being thought to have no life of any kind whatsoever is just pessimistic to the extreme.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Think how silly it is to imagine the far reaches of the universe and all that is up there out there is dead.
No life. It's absurd.
Astronomer Avi Loeb has given talks about life in the universe. Professor Barrie Jones of the Open University says there can be life on rocky masses as well.

A universe, universes, galaxies, with no life whatsoever? Not really possible. If people are talking about bipedal uprights like ourselves, that's just a stretch. But life otherwise is absolutely possible. Because an amazing outer reaches like what we see in the pictures that are sent back to earth being thought to have no life of any kind whatsoever is just pessimistic to the extreme.

But it is more likely that the vast majority of planets that we will find up in space will not have life on them, and it is also more likely that the life that we do find on other planets will not be above one-celled organisms. Nothing to worry about.
If we do find complex multi-celled alien organisms that are capable of thought and are able to interact with us, then your problems about us meeting them would be relevant.
It is likely that we will find other life in the universe, but for now, it's not a problem we should worry about. Getting off the planet is the main problem to deal with.

 

[freezerman2000]

Why not colonize other worlds?
Maybe,because one day we will run out of living space here on earth.
Maybe,because we a race of explorers.
Maybe,because one day,we will have used up the finite natural resources we depend on to survive.
We need to start looking at our future and planning for it before it is to late.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Why not colonize other worlds?
Maybe,because one day we will run out of living space here on earth.
Maybe,because we a race of explorers.
Maybe,because one day,we will have used up the finite natural resources we depend on to survive.
We need to start looking at our future and planning for it before it is to late.

Just... all of this.
Earth will always be humanity's home, now and forever. But we are killing this planet. I support the idea of staying on Earth and trying to fix what we've done, but we cannot simply rely on that to do the job. We need an insurance policy and extra-terrestrial colonization gives us that insurance.

 

[freezerman2000]

Think how silly it is to imagine the far reaches of the universe and all that is up there out there is dead.
No life. It's absurd.
Astronomer Avi Loeb has given talks about life in the universe. Professor Barrie Jones of the Open University says there can be life on rocky masses as well.

A universe, universes, galaxies, with no life whatsoever? Not really possible. If people are talking about bipedal uprights like ourselves, that's just a stretch. But life otherwise is absolutely possible. Because an amazing outer reaches like what we see in the pictures that are sent back to earth being thought to have no life of any kind whatsoever is just pessimistic to the extreme.

But that doesn't mean that there is life everywhere(teeming)...
I agree that alien life does not have to be anything that we recognize at the present,but to think that it exists everywhere we turn is a stretch of the imagination.

 

[Michael]

In what way is living in tunnels in the moon better than living in a fallout shelter on earth? If things get so bad on earth that we are desperate for survival, wouldn't you be a lot safer in a concrete bunker on earth? Can't we build bunkers on earth for a lot less money than flying to the moon?

Well, I'm sure it will always be easier and cheaper to dig holes in our backyards, but assuming we really do want to explore space, we'll need to find good shelter in other places.

I don't think it's even really possible to terra-form our moon due to it's lack of an atmosphere, but Mars and a few other moons around Jupiter (Europa and Ganymede) look rather promising.

 

[Blondepudding]

But that doesn't mean that there is life everywhere(teeming)...
I agree that alien life does not have to be anything that we recognize at the present,but to think that it exists everywhere we turn is a stretch of the imagination.

To think that it is impossible is the stretch. To imagine space for all that means beyond even our imaginings is dead is a real stretch.
That's the human condition though isn't it? We think we have to control everything because we're seemingly the higher species on earth. Top of the food chain. Apex predator.
Even when we don't know we broadcast a theory. Maybe we think there is no life in space because our limited level of evolution in the intellect isn't capable of comprehending that life other than what we think it is defined as is possible.

Look at the god topic. We even think we can confine something that is the source for everything we think we know and see fits the mold we imagine and then call faith. It looks like us, in every religion. It has our attitude, in every religion. And in the infinite expanse of whatever is that we don't know or see because we're confined to this third dimensional reality, plane, consciousness, that god we are sure loves one kind of people. The people that define it and then worship it in a religion custom tailored to give it praise. And in return we think that "it" has nothing better to do than obsess over how we sex, how we think, how we dress, and what we do in matters of that praise.
And some are so fixated on subjective controls that they call themselves pagan! And they think that what they think, and do in ritual, makes nature do what they ask. And she, mother nature, loves them back. And, when they die she brings them back to do it all over again. And some think that what they do in this life is what makes for that nature, that 'god', to judge them worthy of in shape and identity, when they return.

There are Buddhists, and I was there to see it, who will be excavating a new temple grounds and the contractors are getting paid through the nose for the job. Because the Buddhists there go through ever inch of dirt excavated. Imagine that one for something like a super mall size, and dig through the dirt so as to remove every bug, every worm, every grub, and whatever else alive.

Because, they live and believe those things could be their mom. Or their dad. Or their aunt. Or some relative that was reincarnated there.


Point being, humans think like that. They live their lives like that. They die for that.
And here we are thinking we know that the whole wide expanse of space outside our planet can't have life? Because we don't think so?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

To think that it is impossible is the stretch. To imagine space for all that means beyond even our imaginings is dead is a real stretch.
That's the human condition though isn't it? We think we have to control everything because we're seemingly the higher species on earth. Top of the food chain. Apex predator.
Even when we don't know we broadcast a theory. Maybe we think there is no life in space because our limited level of evolution in the intellect isn't capable of comprehending that life other than what we think it is defined as is possible.

Look at the god topic. We even think we can confine something that is the source for everything we think we know and see fits the mold we imagine and then call faith. It looks like us, in every religion. It has our attitude, in every religion. And in the infinite expanse of whatever is that we don't know or see because we're confined to this third dimensional reality, plane, consciousness, that god we are sure loves one kind of people. The people that define it and then worship it in a religion custom tailored to give it praise. And in return we think that "it" has nothing better to do than obsess over how we sex, how we think, how we dress, and what we do in matters of that praise.
And some are so fixated on subjective controls that they call themselves pagan! And they think that what they think, and do in ritual, makes nature do what they ask. And she, mother nature, loves them back. And, when they die she brings them back to do it all over again. And some think that what they do in this life is what makes for that nature, that 'god', to judge them worthy of in shape and identity, when they return.

There are Buddhists, and I was there to see it, who will be excavating a new temple grounds and the contractors are getting paid through the nose for the job. Because the Buddhists there go through ever inch of dirt excavated. Imagine that one for something like a super mall size, and dig through the dirt so as to remove every bug, every worm, every grub, and whatever else alive.

Because, they live and believe those things could be their mom. Or their dad. Or their aunt. Or some relative that was reincarnated there.


Point being, humans think like that. They live their lives like that. They die for that.
And here we are thinking we know that the whole wide expanse of space outside our planet can't have life? Because we don't think so?

I'm sorry, but what does any of this have to do with which form of colonization is more viable for humans in space?

 

[freezerman2000]

I agree with the above post...

 

[Michael]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/27/world/europe/star-trek-shield/

If we're talking about spaceships, we'll need something like this to deflect cosmic rays and solar wind particles.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/27/world/europe/star-trek-shield/

If we're talking about spaceships, we'll need something like this to deflect cosmic rays and solar wind particles.

Not a good thing to deflect meteors and such though. Although the CIWS (Close-in Weapon System) would make short work of them, especially if they're scaled up and given the right ammunition.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Do you want to reduce garbage problems, land/air/sea pollution, scarcity of land, etc, etc? The most effective and practical means of doing it is to enforce a one-child policy for the next hundred years as well as other policy changes globally

Or, we could just throw out all vaccines, antibiotics, life saving medical treatments and let nature take its course.

 

[Michael]

Not a good thing to deflect meteors and such though. Although the CIWS (Close-in Weapon System) would make short work of them, especially if they're scaled up and given the right ammunition.

Something like this would also be helpful in that regard:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...r-being-developed-by-military-scientists.html

 

[Michael]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-vehicles-buildings-explosion-shockwaves.html

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Something like this would also be helpful in that regard:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...r-being-developed-by-military-scientists.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-vehicles-buildings-explosion-shockwaves.html

Interesting. Although it really seems like a more complicated version of explosive reactive armour.

 

[Michael]

Interesting. Although it really seems like a more complicated version of explosive reactive armour.

The last patent in particular seems to require "air" to create a bubble that probably wouldn't exist in space. Then again, explosive reactive armor might be nice.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

The last patent in particular seems to require "air" to create a bubble that probably wouldn't exist in space. Then again, explosive reactive armor might be nice.

If it works, it works. Plus I think that fitting a spaceship with explosive reactive armour would be much easier to do than creating a bubble of air around it.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Why not colonize other worlds?
Maybe,because one day we will run out of living space here on earth.

As long as the population continues to grow faster than the number of people who emigrate to outer space, we will eventually overwhelm the earth. Since the population is growing at 100 million people per year, we would need to have 100 million people emigrate to space every year.

When realistically do you think we can start sending 100 million to other planets every year? This does not seem feasible to me.

Maybe,because we a race of explorers.

Understood, but if all we are looking for is knowledge, robotic spacecraft are much less costly and should provide everything we need. If we are looking for thrilling experiences, I would not recommend space travel as the way to get it.

Maybe,because one day,we will have used up the finite natural resources we depend on to survive.

Understood, unless we scale back to sustainable levels. If we can stop population growth, it is theoretically possible that we scale back to the point where we reach steady state and are good for hundreds of millions of years. That seems fine to me.

Since resources are limited, why waste resources to send 100 million people and accompanying supplies to space every year? Wouldn't that be a big drain on resources? I have difficulty understanding why the solution to diminishing resources is to send 100 million people to other planets every year.

 

[doubtingmerle]

We need to start looking at our future and planning for it before it is to late.

Define "we".

A mission to Mars may cost $500 billion and accomplish little. Who is going to pay for this? Are you hoping to tax every American (at about $8000 per family of four)? My family cannot afford that. Or are you hoping all nations chip in and share in the cost? Good luck with that. Or you merely suggesting that some big corporation finance this? OK, but what is this going to do for their bottom line?

That's one excursion. Now let's say we are going to finance 10 million excursions of 10 people each per year. We need to launch that order of magnitude to significantly slow population growth. Now you increase my family's portion of the cost from $8000 per year to $80 billion per year. I don't know about you, but count my family out. That's not going to happen.

So perhaps we ought to step back and consider what we are saying. How can we possibly send so many people into outer space that we keep from overrunning this planet with people?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Define "we".

A mission to Mars may cost $500 billion and accomplish little. Who is going to pay for this? Are you hoping to tax every American (at about $8000 per family of four)? My family cannot afford that. Or are you hoping all nations chip in and share in the cost? Good luck with that. Or you merely suggesting that some big corporation finance this? OK, but what is this going to do for their bottom line?

That's one excursion. Now let's say we are going to finance 10 million excursions of 10 people each per year. We need to launch that order of magnitude to significantly slow population growth. Now you increase my family's portion of the cost from $8000 per year to $80 billion per year. I don't know about you, but count my family out. That's not going to happen.

So perhaps we ought to step back and consider what we are saying. How can we possibly send so many people into outer space that we keep from overrunning this planet with people?

The US government was projected to spend 598.5 billion dollars in 2015 on it's military budget. That's 54% of the US government's annual budget. It's science budget was 29.7 billion, 3%, of it's annual budget.
Guess what the US government could do to cover that cost.

Plus, you're also discounting the fact that other countries would get in on this too. It would not just be a single national endeavour, like the Space Race was.