1 God + 1 God + 1 God = 1 God, not 3 Gods?

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,794
✟322,485.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The cross was important but your saying is that the only way for God to show mortals he is God was to resurrect and then to tossing the body and then keep it a secret
Go back and read what I said again. "Only" is a strong word. Only is limiting. To say only one way He shows people. Our conversation was specific to Jesus and His ressurection.

And God told us we will all be getting new spirit bodies at our own ressurection. So that could very well be what Jesus did.
 
Upvote 0

Job8

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2014
4,634
1,801
✟21,583.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The only difference between the nature of modalism and the Trinity is the 3 Gods are called modes in modelism, and in the Trinity they are called Persons. Technically, no difference, just a subtle difference of words.
Actually it is more that a subtle difference. Modalism would mean that there is only ONE PERSON manifesting Himself in three different ways. But in fact there are THREE Divine Persons, yet one God. How do we explain this? We don't. One can believe it or disbelieve it.
 
Upvote 0
Dec 14, 2010
2,285
218
46
San Juan del Río
✟26,797.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
The Most Holy Trinity


The Trinity is in the Sacred Scripture, in both, the Old Testament and the New Testament. We can watch the Images of the Theophany of the Prophet Daniel and the Theophany of the Apostle John and we can understand that there is in fact the Same Trinity:

Daniel 7:9-10 & Daniel 7:13-14


{7:9}I watched until thrones were set up, and the ancient of days {The Father} sat down. His garment was radiant like snow, and the hair of his head like clean wool; his throne was flames of fire, its wheels had been set on fire.


{7:10} A river of fire {The Holy Spirit} rushed forth from his presence. Thousands upon thousands ministered to him {the Church}, and ten thousand times hundreds of thousands attended before him. The trial began, and the books were opened.



{7:13} I watched, therefore, in the vision of the night, and behold, with the clouds of heaven, one like a son of man {The Son} arrived, and he approached all the way to the ancient of days, and they presented him before him.


{7:14} And he gave him power, and honor, and the kingdom, and all peoples, tribes, and languages will serve him. His power is an eternal power, which will not be taken away, and his kingdom, one which will not be corrupted.


And in the New Testament the vision of Daniel is repeated int he Apocalypse of John:

Revelation 22:1


{22:1}And he showed me the river of the water of life {The Holy Spirit}, shining like crystal, proceeding from the throne of God {The Father} and of the Lamb {The Son}.



The Trinity is The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit who share of the Throne. The Figure of the Throne is the Figure of the Divinity of God, the figure of the Highest of the Highest Authority, thus The Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God, but there are not three gods but Only One God, as only one Throne. Almighty is The Father, Almighty is The Son and Almighty is The Holy Spirit, but there are not three almighties but One Almighty, One Throne. Eternal is The Father, Eternal is The Son and Eternal is The Holy Spirit, but there are not three eternals but One Eternal, One Throne.


So, yes, the Sacred Scripture gives us the Theophanic Image of the Most Holy Trinity in both the Old Testament and the New Testament:


7b617-sant25c3258dsima2btrinidad.jpg
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Please read what I said again.

I was not talking about the ressurection. I was talking about bodies. Nothing shows that Christ did not go back to being a spririt after the ressurectioin.
Nothing shows that he did go back to spirit. Everything in the bible shows he was resurrected with a body of flesh and bone and spirit. If you are so biblically oriented we should be able to agree on this. Why are we not?
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Actually it is more that a subtle difference. Modalism would mean that there is only ONE PERSON manifesting Himself in three different ways. But in fact there are THREE Divine Persons, yet one God. How do we explain this? We don't. One can believe it or disbelieve it.

What your telling me is, there are 3 Persons in 1 God. All 3 would have to be where the other 2 are all the time. IOW you cannot confound the persons, and you cannot divide the substance. Where 1 goes, they all go. Now putting it into biblical application, They all got born of Mary, They all grew up in Nazareth, They all turned water to wine, They all healed the sick, They all preached the gospel, They all raised the dead, They were all crucified, They were all in the spirit world for 3 days, They were all resurrected, They all sit in heaven waiting for all of Them to come down for the second coming. Now if that is absurd to you, figure another way to say all 3 are in 1 God.

If you can't explain it, then what have we got? You have nothing. I can make up anything, and then defend it by saying I don't explain these things, it is a mystery.

The Mormon explanation is simple. 3 separate and distinct Persons within their own substance. Yet they are co-equal in majesty and so united in Their purpose, it is as if They are one God. Simple, distinct, precious.

Now apply that to the NT and it fits like a glove. The Trinity OTOH has multiple problems with some NT scriptures.

Try explaining the Trinity in 1 sentence.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
The Most Holy Trinity


The Trinity is in the Sacred Scripture, in both, the Old Testament and the New Testament. We can watch the Images of the Theophany of the Prophet Daniel and the Theophany of the Apostle John and we can understand that there is in fact the Same Trinity:

Daniel 7:9-10 & Daniel 7:13-14


{7:9}I watched until thrones were set up, and the ancient of days {The Father} sat down. His garment was radiant like snow, and the hair of his head like clean wool; his throne was flames of fire, its wheels had been set on fire.


{7:10} A river of fire {The Holy Spirit} rushed forth from his presence. Thousands upon thousands ministered to him {the Church}, and ten thousand times hundreds of thousands attended before him. The trial began, and the books were opened.



{7:13} I watched, therefore, in the vision of the night, and behold, with the clouds of heaven, one like a son of man {The Son} arrived, and he approached all the way to the ancient of days, and they presented him before him.


{7:14} And he gave him power, and honor, and the kingdom, and all peoples, tribes, and languages will serve him. His power is an eternal power, which will not be taken away, and his kingdom, one which will not be corrupted.


And in the New Testament the vision of Daniel is repeated int he Apocalypse of John:

Revelation 22:1


{22:1}And he showed me the river of the water of life {The Holy Spirit}, shining like crystal, proceeding from the throne of God {The Father} and of the Lamb {The Son}.



The Trinity is The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit who share of the Throne. The Figure of the Throne is the Figure of the Divinity of God, the figure of the Highest of the Highest Authority, thus The Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God, but there are not three gods but Only One God, as only one Throne. Almighty is The Father, Almighty is The Son and Almighty is The Holy Spirit, but there are not three almighties but One Almighty, One Throne. Eternal is The Father, Eternal is The Son and Eternal is The Holy Spirit, but there are not three eternals but One Eternal, One Throne.


So, yes, the Sacred Scripture gives us the Theophanic Image of the Most Holy Trinity in both the Old Testament and the New Testament:


And with all those fine words, your picture is Mormonism 101. 3 distinct and separate Persons, all within Their own substance. Yet They are co-majestic and They are so unified in purpose, it is as if they are 1 God. Simple like the picture.
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Because those who disbelieve don't understand basic mathematics.

1 x 1 x 1 = 1

1 + 1 + 1 = 3
If it were a function of multiplication, you would be right. But it is a matter of addition, and the bible can prove it. There is one God the Father, "and" one Son, Jesus Christ, "and" there is one HS. (1 Cor. 8:6)The "and" represents the function of addition, not multiplication.
 
Upvote 0
Dec 14, 2010
2,285
218
46
San Juan del Río
✟26,797.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
And with all those fine words, your picture is Mormonism 101. 3 distinct and separate Persons, all within Their own substance. Yet They are co-majestic and They are so unified in purpose, it is as if they are 1 God. Simple like the picture.

¿their own substance? ¿sorry?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

withwonderingawe

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2015
3,592
510
71
Salem Ut
✟161,549.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The Most Holy Trinity


The Trinity is in the Sacred Scripture, in both, the Old Testament and the New Testament. We can watch the Images of the Theophany of the Prophet Daniel and the Theophany of the Apostle John and we can understand that there is in fact the Same Trinity:

Daniel 7:9-10 & Daniel 7:13-14


{7:9}I watched until thrones were set up, and the ancient of days {The Father} sat down. His garment was radiant like snow, and the hair of his head like clean wool; his throne was flames of fire, its wheels had been set on fire.


{7:10} A river of fire {The Holy Spirit} rushed forth from his presence. Thousands upon thousands ministered to him {the Church}, and ten thousand times hundreds of thousands attended before him. The trial began, and the books were opened.



{7:13} I watched, therefore, in the vision of the night, and behold, with the clouds of heaven, one like a son of man {The Son} arrived, and he approached all the way to the ancient of days, and they presented him before him.


{7:14} And he gave him power, and honor, and the kingdom, and all peoples, tribes, and languages will serve him. His power is an eternal power, which will not be taken away, and his kingdom, one which will not be corrupted.


And in the New Testament the vision of Daniel is repeated int he Apocalypse of John:

Revelation 22:1


{22:1}And he showed me the river of the water of life {The Holy Spirit}, shining like crystal, proceeding from the throne of God {The Father} and of the Lamb {The Son}.



The Trinity is The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit who share of the Throne. The Figure of the Throne is the Figure of the Divinity of God, the figure of the Highest of the Highest Authority, thus The Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God, but there are not three gods but Only One God, as only one Throne. Almighty is The Father, Almighty is The Son and Almighty is The Holy Spirit, but there are not three almighties but One Almighty, One Throne. Eternal is The Father, Eternal is The Son and Eternal is The Holy Spirit, but there are not three eternals but One Eternal, One Throne.


So, yes, the Sacred Scripture gives us the Theophanic Image of the Most Holy Trinity in both the Old Testament and the New Testament:


7b617-sant25c3258dsima2btrinidad.jpg

We see these passages as speaking about the last days just before the second coming and the resurrection of the dead. It is the judgment of the saints/worthy house of Israel and those that held the keys of their dispensations.

{7:9}I watched until thrones were set up, and the ancient of days (Adam) sat down. His garment was radiant like snow, and the hair of his head like clean wool; his throne was flames of fire, its wheels had been set on fire.

Interesting your versions says set up while the KJV says ‘I beheld till the thrones were cast down.

“Matt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

{7:10} A river of fire rushed forth from his presence.

compare to Deut 32:2
“he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.” it’s the law which they will be judged by.

Thousands upon thousands ministered to him {the Church}, and ten thousand times hundreds of thousands attended before him. The trial began, and the books were opened.

Each of the Prophets will turn over their key or authority to Adam. It goes with Eph 1:10
“That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him”

{7:13} I watched, therefore, in the vision of the night, and behold, with the clouds of heaven, one like a son of man {The Son} arrived, and he approached all the way to the ancient of days, and they presented him before him.

{7:14} And he gave him power, and honor, and the kingdom, and all peoples, tribes, and languages will serve him. His power is an eternal power, which will not be taken away, and his kingdom, one which will not be corrupted.

I’ll add these two;
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22 Until the Ancient of days/Adam came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Each of the different Prophets over their dispensations will give an accounting of their stewardships. Each priesthood leader will also have to give an accounting. The keys/stewardships will be gathered into one and Adam/the ancient of days present them to Christ. Those who are worthy will then possess the kingdom meaning they will be resurrected and the millennium will commence.

The Father doesn't appear until the end of the millennium and the battle of Gog and Magog.

Rev 21
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,462
26,892
Pacific Northwest
✟732,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
What your telling me is, there are 3 Persons in 1 God. All 3 would have to be where the other 2 are all the time. IOW you cannot confound the persons, and you cannot divide the substance. Where 1 goes, they all go.

There is no place God is not.

Now putting it into biblical application, They all got born of Mary, They all grew up in Nazareth, They all turned water to wine, They all healed the sick, They all preached the gospel, They all raised the dead, They were all crucified, They were all in the spirit world for 3 days, They were all resurrected, They all sit in heaven waiting for all of Them to come down for the second coming. Now if that is absurd to you, figure another way to say all 3 are in 1 God.

It is the Son who became incarnate. And He was never separated from the Father or the Spirit; there was never a time when the Father was not in the Son, the Son not in the Father, the Spirit in the Son, the Son in the Spirit, etc. Their eternal union and communion was never severed; this doesn't change the fact that only the Son became incarnate.

I have a feeling this might be difficult to process if you don't accept that God is at all times everywhere and can't be constrained by time or place. The Logos, who being God, and thus filling all things, holding all things together, was still incarnate as Jesus.

Now apply that to the NT and it fits like a glove. The Trinity OTOH has multiple problems with some NT scriptures.

What the Mormon position doesn't help address is the unity of God, "I am God and there is no other", "You shall have no other gods before Me" "Hear O Israel the Lord our God, the Lord is one". That is, it doesn't address the explicit monotheism taught in Scripture, which was fundamental to the Christian view of God as it had been for the Jews before them. Therefore any doctrine concerning Christ and the Holy Spirit had to account for the explicit teaching that there is but only one God. Period.

Try explaining the Trinity in 1 sentence.

"We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the Substance."

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,794
✟322,485.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Does Jesus not have a body of flesh and bone and spirit? That's what Mormons call substance.

Mormons even call pure spirit substance too. JS said spirit is just refined matter/substance.

Why would spirit be substance?

The BOM calls the Father Spirit, now why wouldn't JS just say substance. Unless He took it from the Bible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Upvote 0
Dec 14, 2010
2,285
218
46
San Juan del Río
✟26,797.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Does Jesus not have a body of flesh and bone and spirit? That's what Mormons call substance.

Mormons even call pure spirit substance too. JS said spirit is just refined matter/substance.


The Lord Jesus Do have his human body glorified and resurrected, but his divinity doesn't come from his body but from his Spirit, his body is now Divinified but before his resurrection his body was human and mortal.

In Exchange The Father and The Holy Spirit did not incarnate, The Father is Spirit and the Holy Spirit is Spirit Too, And the Son is Spirit and Flesh.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ToBeLoved
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
There is no place God is not.



It is the Son who became incarnate. And He was never separated from the Father or the Spirit; there was never a time when the Father was not in the Son, the Son not in the Father, the Spirit in the Son, the Son in the Spirit, etc. Their eternal union and communion was never severed; this doesn't change the fact that only the Son became incarnate.

I have a feeling this might be difficult to process if you don't accept that God is at all times everywhere and can't be constrained by time or place. The Logos, who being God, and thus filling all things, holding all things together, was still incarnate as Jesus.



What the Mormon position doesn't help address is the unity of God, "I am God and there is no other", "You shall have no other gods before Me" "Hear O Israel the Lord our God, the Lord is one". That is, it doesn't address the explicit monotheism taught in Scripture, which was fundamental to the Christian view of God as it had been for the Jews before them. Therefore any doctrine concerning Christ and the Holy Spirit had to account for the explicit teaching that there is but only one God. Period.



"We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the Substance."

-CryptoLutheran
You say: There is no place God is not.

So when Jesus knelt and prayed to God, He said, Father, who art in heaven....
In Mormonism this is easily explained. Jesus was on earth, praying to his Father, God the Father who was in heaven. 2 separate and distinct Persons, in their own substance.

Now show me practically how the Trinity works in this case. How are the Persons not confounded, and the substance not divided?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
The Lord Jesus Do have his human body glorified and resurrected, but his divinity doesn't come from his body but from his Spirit, his body is now Divinified but before his resurrection his body was human and mortal.

In Exchange The Father and The Holy Spirit did not incarnate, The Father is Spirit and the Holy Spirit is Spirit Too, And the Son is Spirit and Flesh.
So if the Lord Jesus Christ has a body of flesh and bone and spirit, would that be a form of substance to you?
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,794
✟322,485.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
You say: There is no place God is not.

So when Jesus knelt and prayed to God, He said, Father, who art in heaven....
In Mormonism this is easily explained. Jesus was on earth, praying to his Father, God the Father who was in heaven. 2 separate and distinct Persons, in their own substance.

Now show me practically how the Trinity works in this case. How are the Persons not confounded, and the substance not divided?

Obviously when Jesus was on earth the Father was not. Your view of God is a little shallow. Don't try to make God human.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,462
26,892
Pacific Northwest
✟732,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
You say: There is no place God is not.

So when Jesus knelt and prayed to God, He said, Father, who art in heaven....
In Mormonism this is easily explained. Jesus was on earth, praying to his Father, God the Father who was in heaven. 2 separate and distinct Persons, in their own substance.

Since "heaven" isn't a place or a location, but points to the immensity of God(c.f. 1 Kings 8:27, Isaiah 66:1); indeed "kingdom of heaven" means the same thing as "kingdom of God"; that is, in this case the royal power and authority of God to rule and reign as king.

Yes Jesus was on earth, and yet He was still God, who cannot be confined or constrained; God who fills all things and is everywhere. So Jesus on earth, and the Father and the Holy Spirit who are in the Son just as the Son is in the Father and in the Holy Spirit; even as the Son is God as the Father is God and the Spirit is God--one God, Almighty, eternal, everywhere, everywhen, etc.

Now show me practically how the Trinity works in this case. How are the Persons not confounded, and the substance not divided?

What do you mean "practically how the Trinity works"?

The Persons are not confused, because the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit remain distinct in their hypostases; and the substance is not divided because there is only one God.

Perhaps you could clarify what it is you're looking for here.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0