From faith to fact.

[Loudmouth]

Actually..."Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. Which means that many "believe" by "faith" after "hearing" from those who have heard from God, or after "hearing" from God directly. And this is not speculation or conjecture on my part, but from being one who has heard directly from God.

So, then, our "faith" is not founded on "belief", but on actual contact with God, and therefore, by "knowing."

By your own description, it is due to being in contact with other humans and with books written by humans.

You haven't presented a single thing that would distinguish your spiritual world with one that doesn't exist. You claim that science can't detect the spiritual world, but that is also true of made up fantasies.

 

[lesliedellow]

The reason, is that people of faith are coming to terms with the facts.

Facts like Evolution you mean? Well, it is perfectly true that most Christians outside of America have never had a problem with that, but American evangelicals are another matter - you included.

 

[ScottA]

What a wonderful imagination you have, sadly death puts pay to all of our imaginations, our minds and all that's in them dies when our brains die, believe me no one wishes we were all going to another place when we die more than me but it's just not going to happen, even if we wish and wish and wish it's still not going to happen, but if it helps you to cope with this life then go for it and wish away to your hearts content.

Religions have a negative effect on our lives because all they do is drag us down, they give us false hopes that death is not the end when everything else tells us it is, why waste time trying to change the inevitable? live the one life you have and enjoy it because we "Know" we have this one but we only wish we had another one.

If you are speaking only of the organic body - then, yes, that is correct. But the rest of your comments are pure conjecture about something that you simply don't know about. You are like one who has never been kissed, but speak boldly of coodies and such. I wish I could explain life after puberty, but some never grow up. What did you think your organic life was - everything? That is just sad.

 

[Loudmouth]

If you are speaking only of the organic body - then, yes, that is correct. But the rest of your comments are pure conjecture about something that you simply don't know about. You are like one who has never been kissed, but speak boldly of coodies and such. I wish I could explain life after puberty, but some never grow up. What did you think your organic life was - everything? That is just sad.

And yet you can't back up any of your claims with evidence. Your claims are indistinguishable from something that is completely made up.

 

[ScottA]

By your own description, it is due to being in contact with other humans and with books written by humans.

You haven't presented a single thing that would distinguish your spiritual world with one that doesn't exist. You claim that science can't detect the spiritual world, but that is also true of made up fantasies.

Typical. Apparently, you missed the part about "direct contact with God."

 

[Loudmouth]

Typical. Apparently, you missed the part about "direct contact with God."

Where is the evidence that anyone has had direct contact with God?

 

[ScottA]

Facts like Evolution you mean? Well, it is perfectly true that most Christians outside of America have never had a problem with that, but American evangelicals are another matter - you included.

No...that is not what I meant at all.

What I meant, was that those of Christ, being born of the spirit of God, now have greater knowledge - the mind of Christ, the truth. We no longer need to speculate with the unsaved who only have the world to look to for knowledge. Evolution is a product of the minds of men, fallen men.

God's ways are higher, and with Him, we press on. Knowledge has been increased.

 

[ScottA]

And yet you can't back up any of your claims with evidence. Your claims are indistinguishable from something that is completely made up.

The jury is not in - but when it is, it will be too late.

 

[ScottA]

Where is the evidence that anyone has had direct contact with God?

The evidence is within those like myself who have had direct contact.

 

[Loudmouth]

The jury is not in - but when it is, it will be too late.

The jury is still waiting for you to present evidence.

 

[Loudmouth]

The evidence is within those like myself who have had direct contact.

Again, your claim is indistinguishable from something that is entirely made up.

 

[lesliedellow]

Evolution is a product of the minds of men, fallen men.

Electromagnetic theory is the product of men, fallen men, but without it we wouldn't have the modern world.

The only difference is that electromagnetism doesn't tread on your fundamentalist toes.

 

[ScottA]

The jury is still waiting for you to present evidence.

We have covered this repeatedly: All the world is given as evidence, including your own life. What you do with the one, you do with the other.

 

[ScottA]

Electromagnetic theory is the product of men, fallen men, but without it we wouldn't have the modern world.

So what? We should pat ourselves on the back for what we have become? (Rhetorical) Right!

The only difference is that electromagnetism doesn't tread on your fundamentalist toes.

So, then, you have joined with the fallen, after being told: "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:14 That's terrific.

 

[Loudmouth]

We have covered this repeatedly: All the world is given as evidence, including your own life. What you do with the one, you do with the other.

How is it evidence?

 

[Loudmouth]

So what? We should pat ourselves on the back for what we have become? (Rhetorical) Right!
So, then, you have joined with the fallen, after being told: "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:14 That's terrific.

All you are doing is calling people names because they don't agree with you. You are completely incapable of discussing the actual evidence.

 

[lesliedellow]

So, then, you have joined with the fallen, after being told: "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:14 That's terrific.

I join with atheists in quite a few things, such as believing the Moon is a quarter of a million miles from Earth, voting in General Elections and believing the Earth is a sphere.

And since your theological education is evidently lacking, may I remind you that mankind is fallen; not just atheists.

 

[ScottA]

How is it evidence?

Your world is self-evident to you, and you get to decide were it takes you.

 

[Loudmouth]

Your world is self-evident to you, and you get to decide were it takes you.

No, it isn't self evidence. Try again.

The evidence I point to is objective and verifiable. None of my evidence ends with "because I say so". All of your evidence boils down to "because I say so". That's a huge difference.

 

[ScottA]

since your theological education is evidently lacking, may I remind you that mankind is fallen; not just atheists.

To whom are you speaking? I never knew you when I was a fallen man. You are years too late.