From faith to fact.

[bhsmte]

Check the diagram of DNA already provided. That IS supporting evidence.

Explain please.

 

[Veera Chase]

The non-physical (spiritual) is always superior to the physical, since it is eternal.

Also imaginary.

 

[Veera Chase]

Check the diagram of DNA already provided. That IS supporting evidence.

You claim it therefore it's true, perhaps but only for you.

 

[ScottA]

Also imaginary.

We have not reported to you that we know Peter Pan whom is imaginary, but we know someone and somewhere that is factual and real. If it is a fantasy to you - it is only a fantasy to you and those like you who have never seen, nor heard, nor been.

 

[HitchSlap]

We have not reported to you that we know Peter Pan whom is imaginary, but we know someone and somewhere that is factual and real. If it is a fantasy to you - it is only a fantasy to you and those like you who have never seen, nor heard, nor been.

...nor gullible...

 

[Veera Chase]

it is only a fantasy to you and those like you who have never seen, nor heard, nor been.

You have never seen, been or heard you only think you have, no one doubts you had a feeling you were just lied to when they said it was the holy spirit, you could have had the same feeling at a music concert or a football game and you would have brushed it off as being just a feeling of elation.
I expect like me you have cried in the theatre and the movies and felt wonderful listening to some fantastic music, if I told you those feelings were caused by the Indian spirit wompom would you have believed me?

 

[ScottA]

You have never seen, been or heard you only think you have, no one doubts you had a feeling you were just lied to when they said it was the holy spirit, you could have had the same feeling at a music concert or a football game and you would have brushed it off as being just a feeling of elation.

That [your comment] is a lie.

You do not know what I have or have not experienced, and by your lack of knowing - you are in no position to say.

 

[bhsmte]

That [your comment] is a lie.

You do not know what I have or have not experienced, and by your lack of knowing - you are in no position to say.

You should what you just said to yourself and how you make claims about those who disagree with your faith belief.

 

[ScottA]

You should what you just said to yourself and how you make claims about those who disagree with your faith belief.

Not that your comment is at all legible, but what "faith belief?"

 

[Veera Chase]

That [your comment] is a lie.

Yes it's a lie, just keep telling yourself that and don't think about it.

 

[Veera Chase]

You do not know what I have or have not experienced, and by your lack of knowing - you are in no position to say.

My point exactly, neither are you.

 

[ScottA]

My point exactly, neither are you.

Another lie...about something you could not possibly know.

 

[Veera Chase]

Another lie...about something you could not possibly know.

You know better than that, don't you?

 

[JaneC]

Has anyone else notice how creationism has somehow gone from being a faith to being a fact?
We have threads about how,
Science proves the Bible is true.
DNA proves the Bible is true.
Science and scientists prove fine tuning is true.

I wonder what will be next to go from faith to fact? for 1000 years people have been happy to call their beliefs a faith, not today.
It won't take long for all of these assertions and lies to become the absolute truth for creationists, which will mean the end of faith for a lot of people, while religion was a faith it could say anything was true and no one could say different, the problem with proclaiming beliefs to be a fact is evidence is needed to support those facts, evidence that doesn't exist.

It's because faith is never enough to sustain their faith, they have the same trouble believing as do atheists except that they are expected to believe it and atheists are not.

 

[ScottA]

It's because faith is never enough to sustain their faith, they have the same trouble believing as do atheists except that they are expected to believe it and atheists are not.

Actually..."Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. Which means that many "believe" by "faith" after "hearing" from those who have heard from God, or after "hearing" from God directly. And this is not speculation or conjecture on my part, but from being one who has heard directly from God.

So, then, our "faith" is not founded on "belief", but on actual contact with God, and therefore, by "knowing."

 

[JaneC]

So, then, our "faith" is not founded on "belief", but on actual contact with God, and therefore, by "knowing."

Actual contact with God, incredible.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Sorry it took me a while to get around to this.... so,

Okay...issue #1: You say you are "open", so I expect you not to retreat to all that you know, and to show respect to me as someone who has been somewhere you have not been and has knowledge you do not have.

Agreed - though just to be clear, belief is not a choice. I have little time for a range of Woo (not that I'll be in such a hurry to apply it here for now) such as anti-vaxxers, Science denialists, Alien Abductees, etc.

#2 "Evidence." Rationalize it in whatever way you are able, but you will need to understand that there is natural evidence and there is spiritual evidence, and just as the spiritual world is not visible to the natural world, neither is the spiritual evidence visible to the natural world. Example: If you had never been to Turkey and I had, and you wanted me to show you evidence of Turkey...nothing from where you live would be evidence of Turkey. In this case, however, nothing visible would be evidence. So, the choices you have, are either to believe that I had been to Turkey, or not to hear of it. We get a lot of that here...but again, those are the terms, and the choice is yours...and it would not, or does not, change the fact that I have been there.

Also, by the very nature of what we are talking about, it should be understood that it is not for lack of evidence that I cannot present it to you, but that you cannot see it. Again, if I have been where you live and I have also been abroad (so to speak), I am not lacking...but it is you who are lacking.

But I will offer this: All the world is a crude manifestation of the spiritual world. It is, however, a mix of good and evil, of darkness and light. Example: In the creation of the world, each 24 hour period shows the dividing of light from darkness, i.e., "and God divided the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day." Thus, the term "end of days", which refers to the end of the process and purpose for the world.

I can accept this too. And again, the Null Hypothesis will be my starting point. That's to say, I'll follow along but I remain one in need of convincing before I'd try reaching out to something/someone. I was never good at make-believe...

#3 As for who of the spiritual crowd is actually telling the truth...we all have been given a set of tools for making that evaluation. Unfortunately, some have tools of darkness in their bag, and some have tools of light. All have enough to determine the truth, but all do not have enough to gravitate to the light...which sounds unfair, except it's not: If we are ready to have you hear my explanation of this one point, this world is "created", meaning "made up" (for the purpose of dividing light from darkness) - but, understand what I am saying - it's all MADE UP! It's an enactment, where we as characters in the cast are no more real than the pixilated set and painted on sky. But...ask Mickey if he is real...and, what's he going to tell you - that he's not? Or...perhaps...we could ask the fishbowl-bound fish, if he thinks oceans are real and if fishbowls are not all there is - but, how would he know?

As for the "outsiders test"...that is not how it works. The test can only be validated within, because there is no expertise without. It's like this: If you had never seen a particular city, but had seen light, then a glow on the horizon would be something to seek out. On the other hand, if you had not seen light, or that light that you had seen, was counterfeit, it simply would not fulfill your expectations. In other words, we are drawn to the light that is within us. So, then, if there is no draw, you will not seek it out. But if there is, then you should go. And here you are.

so This might be a sticking point. I have a very fulfilling life & have accomplished quite a lot personally I have a loving family, great job, good health, etc. I help quite a few others in many aspects, and enjoy the appreciation & friendships that are borne from it. All without ever leaving reality. If I were to die tomorrow, I'd be happy with all that I've done, and the legacy I'd leave those who knew me.

#4 Back to the Bible. There are no inconsistencies...except when seen in the wrong light. The Bible is a masterpiece of testimonies of imperfect people, most of which would have to be considered tourists in the spirit world, having merely tasted it, and yet are not well versed in the greater details. And, yes, tourist chatter, offers very little. Consequently, they have conveyed two different stories in one: One that speaks of their worldly station in life as they can relate to all things (just like you), and one that speaks of their part in something they themselves have only had a glimpse of. What is contrary or inconsistent then, is not their truth in telling it...but that the one version they too know best...is counterfeit. In other words, your "outside test" has simply picked up the fact that something is wrong, and yet knows no better than to side with the counterfeit.

If I am to believe something, I have to be convinced of it, as in it isn't a choice. Belief isn't something that could just be turned on or off, or redirected to suit something. so these inconsistencies are an inhibitor to my accepting it.

So, then, (as it has been explained in the Bible), all things come in parables. That being said, when you read the Bible, it is a riddle. But when we read the Bible, it is a written riddle with a spiritual answer key...which removes all inconsistencies.

As for other religious texts, when the answers are answered in-full, there is no room left for anything more, and they become null and void.

So, I spent some time with my friend, he spoke of a few things, he told me of the perfect arabic the Qur'An and Hadith have been written in, and he also talked through the Kalam cosmological argument (apparently this argument was first used in support of Islam). I can't bring myself to accept it as anything but a story. I've had a similar experience with my Aunty when I was younger and feel the same way about the Roman Catholic faith. I just felt silly doing all the various kneeling, sitting, standing and 'Amen' in all the right places. I just didn't fit in. Perhaps I just don't have a hole in my life that needs filling?

 

[ScottA]

I can accept this too. And again, the Null Hypothesis will be my starting point. That's to say, I'll follow along but I remain one in need of convincing before I'd try reaching out to something/someone. I was never good at make-believe...

"Convincing" would be a disservice on my part. Again, life in the world is about us gravitating to - returning to - our proper place for eternity.

Too bad about the make-believe. This world is completely make-believe...and to make-believe in this setting, means you have an imagination for...actual reality.

so This might be a sticking point. I have a very fulfilling life & have accomplished quite a lot personally I have a loving family, great job, good health, etc. I help quite a few others in many aspects, and enjoy the appreciation & friendships that are borne from it. All without ever leaving reality. If I were to die tomorrow, I'd be happy with all that I've done, and the legacy I'd leave those who knew me.

All life is a gift. But even a great organic life, is but a period of gestation, compared to the possible life to come. In other words...you ain't seen nothing yet, and being stillborn is a perspective that you may not see coming, but may want to.

If I am to believe something, I have to be convinced of it, as in it isn't a choice. Belief isn't something that could just be turned on or off, or redirected to suit something. so these inconsistencies are an inhibitor to my accepting it.

Then turn it off, and leave this place. If you can - it is the right choice.

So, I spent some time with my friend, he spoke of a few things, he told me of the perfect arabic the Qur'An and Hadith have been written in, and he also talked through the Kalam cosmological argument (apparently this argument was first used in support of Islam). I can't bring myself to accept it as anything but a story. I've had a similar experience with my Aunty when I was younger and feel the same way about the Roman Catholic faith. I just felt silly doing all the various kneeling, sitting, standing and 'Amen' in all the right places. I just didn't fit in. Perhaps I just don't have a hole in my life that needs filling?

You have been living comfortably on the benefits of those who dreamed of the things that you now have and take for granted. That makes you a "taker." But "givers?" - "givers" dream and reach for the stars, because the world is not enough. If that is not you - enjoy, there's plenty for everyone!

 

[JaneC]

"Convincing" would be a disservice on my part. Again, life in the world is about us gravitating to - returning to - our proper place for eternity.
Too bad about the make-believe. This world is completely make-believe...and to make-believe in this setting, means you have an imagination for...actual reality.
All life is a gift. But even a great organic life, is but a period of gestation, compared to the possible life to come. In other words...you ain't seen nothing yet, and being stillborn is a perspective that you may not see coming, but may want to.
Then turn it off, and leave this place. If you can - it is the right choice.
You have been living comfortably on the benefits of those who dreamed of the things that you now have and take for granted. That makes you a "taker." But "givers?" - "givers" dream and reach for the stars, because the world is not enough. If that is not you - enjoy, there's plenty for everyone!

What a wonderful imagination you have, sadly death puts pay to all of our imaginations, our minds and all that's in them dies when our brains die, believe me no one wishes we were all going to another place when we die more than me but it's just not going to happen, even if we wish and wish and wish it's still not going to happen, but if it helps you to cope with this life then go for it and wish away to your hearts content.

Religions have a negative effect on our lives because all they do is drag us down, they give us false hopes that death is not the end when everything else tells us it is, why waste time trying to change the inevitable? live the one life you have and enjoy it because we "Know" we have this one but we only wish we had another one.

 

[JaneC]

but we know someone and somewhere that is factual and real.

If believing that is what it takes for you to get through this life then good luck to you.