Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!

[FreeGrace2]

They were Jews who had not confessed Jesus as Savior, Romans 10:8-13, even though they knew about Him and had been leaning in His direction. They just had not taken the vital, most important step.

Just read Heb 3:1 for orientation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

On the contrary, those 3 passages underline my post 262.

I don't see how. Loving your brother is a part of the general righteousness described here. So there is another righteous activity that is being stressed that does not involve the type of righteousness that you described. Granted, I do believe Christ imputes His righteousness to the believer, but this is only the case if they walk in the light as he is in the light.


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[FreeGrace2]

I must also say that believing oneself saved because one has accepted Jesus Christ does not mean you are saved.

Really? I guess the apostle Paul must have been somewhat confused then. A jailer asked him what he MUST DO to be saved, and Paul said: believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you WILL BE saved. Acts 16:31.

And John the apostle must have also been rather confused then.

"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1 Jn 5:13

Having eternal life is being saved.

Nobody can prove they are saved.

Prove to whom? God doesn't need proof.

To prove when one says one is saved requires death to occur, then one will find out after death whether one is truly saved if one is in Heaven.

There is only the Hope of Salvation in this life. Anything more is just wishful thinking.

Pure nonsense. It appears one needs a lot more study before they post such stuff.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Just read Heb 3:1 for orientation.

Yes, but the truth on the topic of sin presented from the author of Hebrews would be no different to unsaved Jews as it would be to Gentiles who are saved Christians.

Besides, in Romans 11:21-22, we see Paul talk to the Gentiles and he tells them to continue in his goodness otherwise they will be cut off like the Jews. Cut off means to be cut off spiritually like the Jews.


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[Bible Highlighter]

When will you ever provide any Scripture that supports your claims?

I just did. 1 Timothy 6:16 tells us that Jesus alone has immortality. Immortality is eternal life.
1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life.
You have to have the Son in order to have life (i.e. eternal life).

Does the Bible say that God's gifts are irrevocable? Yes. Rom 11:29
Does the Bible say that eternal life is a gift of God? Yes. Rom 6:23

You have to realize that gifts in the real world need to be taken care of or otherwise you can lose those gifts. For example: If you receive a car as a gift, that does not mean you can run red lights, and drive drunk. As for Romans 11:29: As I said to you before, this is spoken to unsaved Israel. It is saying how God's gifts and CALLING of God (that come with conditions) are unchangeable. You are merely reading into that verse that there are no conditions to the receiving of God's gift and His calling. This is talking about receiving Christ and the gifts that come with that. So this passage is talking about the receiving of the gift who is Jesus Christ and the receiving of the calling. Do you believe in Universal Salvation? I do not think that you do, my friend. You believe that a person had to do something in order to receive the gift so as to be saved. This is a condition of the receiving of the gift and the calling of God. The key question is: Why do you think that there are no more conditions after receiving of this gift? Does this verse talk about the after effects of his gift or gifts? No. It is talking to Israel and how they need to accept his gift. Israel does not have this gift and they need it. Are you unaware that Romans 11:29 is talkng to Israel?

Did Jesus say that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH? Yes. John 10:28

And this has to be read in context to verse 27 that says that the type of sheep that will never perish are the sheep that FOLLOW Jesus. Nothing is ever said about sheep here that do not follow Jesus.

Did Jesus say that those who believe HAVE eternal life? Yes. John 5:24

Belief is the same thing as faith. A true faith produces works showing that it is true.
For faith without works is dead (James 2:17).

Any more questions?

How do you relate God's morality or goodness with Eternal Security?
I just cannot reconcile the two.
I see the vast majority of Eternal Security as justifying evil (of which God cannot agree with).


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[Bible Highlighter]

Just read Heb 3:1 for orientation.

What about Hebrews 6:1? It says,

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God"


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[Bible Highlighter]

Just read Heb 3:1 for orientation.

Then why would the author of Hebrews say this to the unsaved Hebrews?

13 "But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin."
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;"
(Hebrews 3:13-14).

In other words, why would the author of Hebrews tell his audience to exhort one another daily unless they be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin? Why would the author of Hebrews say WE to his audience that they need to hold stedfast their confidence until the end so as to be made partakers of Christ? Would not the We include the author?


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[-57]

And you know my life how?

Also, I believe the Old Covenant is no more. This means we do not look to the Old Covenant to obey God's Laws but we look to the New Covenant. Furthermore, not all sins lead unto spiritual death (See 1 John 5:16-18, 1 Peter 3:21, 1 Corinthians 3:1-3).

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I saw your 3 verses...only one pertained to the topic. Why did you post the other 2? Anyway, the sin onto death? Which death? How does the verse support that death?

You do know christians can sin to the point of physical death.

 

[-57]

Peace be with you.

You understand verse 3 and verse 6 right?

God bless you.

It appears that you don't.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Bible NEVER includes sanctification as part of the salvation process. This is just another form of "works salvation".

Pursue...sanctification without which no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

Jesus says, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21).

"For this is the will of God [i.e. the will of the Father], your sanctification." (1 Thessalonians 4:3).

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[Bible Highlighter]

I saw your 3 verses...only one pertained to the topic. Why did you post the other 2? Anyway, the sin onto death? Which death? How does the verse support that death?

You do know christians can sin to the point of physical death.

The other two verses are talking about sins that do not lead unto spiritual death. 1 Peter 3:21 tells us that not being baptized is not a sin that does not lead unto spiritual death. In 1 Corinthians 3:1-3, Paul mentions that the Corinthians are still brethren despite their prideful boasting in one another (which causes divisions). This also is not a sin that leads unto spiritual death (i.e. the Lake of Fire).

As for John's reference to death in his 1st epistle: Well, if you were to go back and take notes on every time the word life and death appear and or light and darkness, etc. you will not find a reference to John talking about physical death anywhere. Eternal life (spiritual life) is contrasted with death (spiritual death). In fact, John calls the Lake of Fire the Second DEATH in Revelation 21:8. If John was referencing death in another way, surely he would have made that fact clear.


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[Bible Highlighter]

It appears that you don't.

Let's play nice now.


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[-57]

The other two verses are talking about sins that do not lead unto spiritual death. 1 Peter 3:21 tells us that not being baptized is not a sin that does not lead unto spiritual death. In 1 Corinthians 3:1-3, Paul mentions that the Corinthians are still brethren despite their prideful boasting in one another (which causes divisions). This also is not a sin that leads unto spiritual death (i.e. the Lake of Fire).

As for John's reference to death in his 1st epistle: Well, if you were to go back and take notes on every time the word life and death appear and or light and darkness, etc. you will not find a reference to John talking about physical death anywhere. Eternal life (spiritual life) is contrasted with death (spiritual death). In fact, John calls the Lake of Fire the Second DEATH in Revelation 21:8. If John was referencing death in another way, surely he would have made that fact clear.


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One can easily know your interpretation is incorrect when it sets up a contradiction against the words of Christ Jesus. No one can snatch you from Jesus' hand.

That verse is so simple...yet you fight the truth of it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

One can easily know your interpretation is incorrect when it sets up a contradiction against the words of Christ Jesus. No one can snatch you from Jesus' hand.

That verse is so simple...yet you fight the truth of it.

Again, verse 27 is the context of the type of sheep that cannot be snatched out of Jesus's hand. These type of sheep are the ones who FOLLOW Jesus. There is no mention of any sheep that DO NOT FOLLOW Jesus and cannot be snatched out of his hand. That is what you want the Bible to say, but it really doesn't say that.


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[-57]

Again, verse 27 is the context of the type of sheep that cannot be snatched out of Jesus's hand. These type of sheep are the ones who FOLLOW Jesus. There is no mention of any sheep that DO NOT FOLLOW Jesus and cannot be snatched out of his hand. That is what you want the Bible to say, but it really doesn't say that.


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John 6:37 tells us this truth....All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

The father gives people to Christ. That's how people come to Christ. Those that the Father gives will never be cast out. It's what the bible says Jason. I didn't write it.

Here's another....."This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. John 6:39

The key word I want to point out here is...GIVES. What the Father gives to Christ will remain with Christ.

Now, speaking of the people given to Christ by the Father....
29 My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand.…

This blows your "follow" argument out of the water. It doesn't say if you stop following Christ you get the boot. Christ loses NOTHING. He will never cast you out.

 

[sdowney717]

Again, verse 27 is the context of the type of sheep that cannot be snatched out of Jesus's hand. These type of sheep are the ones who FOLLOW Jesus. There is no mention of any sheep that DO NOT FOLLOW Jesus and cannot be snatched out of his hand. That is what you want the Bible to say, but it really doesn't say that.


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Jesus says His sheep have some characteristics, as opposed to those who are not His people.
They hear Him speak, Those who are of God hear God. for those who do not hear Christ says they are not of God.

John 8:47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”


So we read He talks to them and they listen to Christ.
They follow Christ. So they are obedient to Christ, and where He leads they follow. They are not rebels or disobedient to the message.

1 Peter 1New King James Version (NKJV)
Greeting to the Elect Pilgrims
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

Christ gives them eternal life, Once you have eternal life that is not taken away from you, since Christ then says they will never perish.
All 'the sheep' follow Christ and have eternal life never to perish. Those who are not 'of MY sheep' do not follow Christ and they do perish as they die in their sins. Christ says God has given the sheep to Christ and He is of one mind with the Father that none of them will be lost ever.

John 10
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

 

[Gabriel Anton]

Really? I guess the apostle Paul must have been somewhat confused then. A jailer asked him what he MUST DO to be saved, and Paul said: believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you WILL BE saved. Acts 16:31.

And John the apostle must have also been rather confused then.

"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1 Jn 5:13

Having eternal life is being saved.


Prove to whom? God doesn't need proof.


Pure nonsense. It appears one needs a lot more study before they post such stuff.

Peace be with you.

Are you in Heaven? If you are, you must be delusional since you are still typing here. Saved? Pure Nonsense.

Pulling verses of Scripture and claiming those verses prove you are saved. You must be living in DreamWorld.

God bless you.

 

[Winken]

I just did. 1 Timothy 6:16 tells us that Jesus alone has immortality. Immortality is eternal life.
1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life.
You have to have the Son in order to have life (i.e. eternal life).



You have to realize that gifts in the real world need to be taken care of or otherwise you can lose those gifts. For example: If you receive a car as a gift, that does not mean you can run red lights, and drive drunk. As for Romans 11:29: As I said to you before, this is spoken to unsaved Israel. It is saying how God's gifts and CALLING of God (that come with conditions) are unchangeable. You are merely reading into that verse that there are no conditions to the receiving of God's gift and His calling. This is talking about receiving Christ and the gifts that come with that. So this passage is talking about the receiving of the gift who is Jesus Christ and the receiving of the calling. Do you believe in Universal Salvation? I do not think that you do, my friend. You believe that a person had to do something in order to receive the gift so as to be saved. This is a condition of the receiving of the gift and the calling of God. The key question is: Why do you think that there are no more conditions after receiving of this gift? Does this verse talk about the after effects of his gift or gifts? No. It is talking to Israel and how they need to accept his gift. Israel does not have this gift and they need it. Are you unaware that Romans 11:29 is talkng to Israel?



And this has to be read in context to verse 27 that says that the type of sheep that will never perish are the sheep that FOLLOW Jesus. Nothing is ever said about sheep here that do not follow Jesus.



Belief is the same thing as faith. A true faith produces works showing that it is true.
For faith without works is dead (James 2:17).



How do you relate God's morality or goodness with Eternal Security?
I just cannot reconcile the two.
I see the vast majority of Eternal Security as justifying evil (of which God cannot agree with).


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Just apply all of this post to the Hebrew folk in the Book of Hebrews. Paul (or the author) is saying, in effect, "leave the old behind, receive the new." The old is the Hebrew Bible, the new is Grace through Faith in the free Gift of God, Jesus at the Cross and eternal security. By understanding and confessing Christianity, the Jews would receive the Gift.

 

[Winken]

I read Wuest's Word Studies decades ago, and have my 3rd or 4th copy of His Expanded Greek New Testament right here. No where does he say what you are saying.

"These Jews,while making a profession, had no faith, and under the pressure of persecution, were in danger of renouncing the intellectual assent which they gave to the NT and then be returning to the first Testament, the law. The writer exhorts the first century Jew to enter, not the Holy of Holies of the temple on earth, but the Holy of Holies of heaven. These unsaved Jews were under the stress of persecution, and in danger of renouncing their 'profession' and returning to the abrogated sacrifices of the Levitical system." ----- Kenneth Wuest

Did you ever read the book of Hebrews ? In RSV is perfectly fine, as well as any other translation you like - use biblegateway to compare many of them .

Many, many times, many versions, for the past 50 or so years.

Hebrews is written to brethren, much more 'saved' than westerners, whether Jew or greek.

To Jewish Brethren. The author is Jewish.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes, but the truth on the topic of sin presented from the author of Hebrews would be no different to unsaved Jews as it would be to Gentiles who are saved Christians.

The good news is that "Christ died for our sins". It is of first importance, according to Paul in 1 Cor 15:3. So yes, this is good news for both believer and unbeliever.

Besides, in Romans 11:21-22, we see Paul talk to the Gentiles and he tells them to continue in his goodness otherwise they will be cut off like the Jews. Cut off means to be cut off spiritually like the Jews.....

Nope. It means to be cut off from service to God. The Jews were very arrogant in their thinking that since they were God's chosen, they were serving Him. Not even close.