Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!

[Winken]

No. Ezekiel 18:24 is a truth that is also expressed in the New Covenant, as well.

26 "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much worse punishment, suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done insult unto the Spirit of grace?"
(Hebrews 10:26-29).

"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him."
(Hebrews 10:38).

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The Book of Hebrews was written to Hebrew folk, Jason. They were drawing near to Christianity, but then backing away. They were not Christians, nor were they non-Jews.

 

[Winken]

1 John 3:7 says, "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous"


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"He" that doeth righteousness is "he" who confesses Jesus as Savior. Righteousness is then imparted to him, and sustained by God Himself.

 

[ZacharyB]

The Book of Hebrews was written to Hebrew folk, Jason. They were drawing near to Christianity, but then backing away. They were not Christians, nor were they non-Jews.

Hebrews 3:1
"Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling ..."

I can't figure out who the writer of Hebrews was writing to!
Winken says they were not Christians.
Can someone help me?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Book of Hebrews was written to Hebrew folk, Jason. They were drawing near to Christianity, but then backing away. They were not Christians.

No. The author of Hebrews was writing to Christians. All Christians are one in Christ regardless of whether they are a Jew or a Greek.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus"
(Galatians 3:28).


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[Winken]

Hebrews 3:1
"Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling ..."

I can't figure out who the writer of Hebrews was writing to!
Winken says they were not Christians.
Can someone help me?

They were Jews who had not confessed Jesus as Savior, Romans 10:8-13, even though they knew about Him and had been leaning in His direction. They just had not taken the vital, most important step.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"He" that doeth righteousness is "he" who confesses Jesus as Savior. Righteousness is then imparted to him, and sustained by God Himself.

I don't see that being the context of 1 John 3 at all.

"If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him"
(1 John 2:29).

"And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure."
(1 John 3:3).

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother" (1 John 3:10).

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[Bible Highlighter]

They were Jews who had not confessed Jesus as Savior, Romans 10:8-13, even though they knew about Him and had been leaning in His direction. They just had not taken the vital, most important step.

Besides, even if the author was exclusively talking to Hebrews, why wouldn't he be trying to evangelize them the Christian way? Why would the author of Hebrews be talking about something that does not apply to us Christians? It doesn't add up.


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[Winken]

Besides, even if the author was exclusively talking to Hebrews, why wouldn't he be trying to evangelize them the Christian way? Why would the author of Hebrews be talking about something that does not apply to us Christians? It doesn't add up.


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Kenneth Wuest, perhaps the world's most blessed Greek Bible scholar, holds to Paul as the writer and the fact that the Book of Hebrews is aimed at the non-Christian Jews who had the full testimony about the Messiah and the coming Kingdom. However, they did not fully understand the deity of Christ. Paul warned them about staying with Judaism while rejecting Jesus.

 

[Winken]

I don't see that being the context of 1 John 3 at all.

"If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him"
(1 John 2:29).

"And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure."
(1 John 3:3).

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother" (1 John 3:10).

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On the contrary, those 3 passages underline my post 262.

 

[Winken]

Besides, even if the author was exclusively talking to Hebrews, why wouldn't he be trying to evangelize them the Christian way? Why would the author of Hebrews be talking about something that does not apply to us Christians? It doesn't add up.


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He was trying to evangelize them! He is saying, "Don't back away from Grace!" The message to the Hebrew folk contains tons of insights for everyone who reads it.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

The Book of Hebrews was written to Hebrew folk, Jason. They were drawing near to Christianity, but then backing away. They were not Christians, nor were they non-Jews.

Peace be with you.

The Book of Hebrews is for Christians. That's why it's part of the Holy Bible. Ignore at your peril.

God bless you.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

The one that abides in Jesus is an individual that is saved. The one that doesn't abide is one who is not saved and never was saved.

John 15:6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

They may be "in the church"...doing churchy things....but they were never know by Jesus.

Barnes notes on the bible from the collection of commentaries on bible hub puts it this way:
If a man is not truly united to him by faith, and does not live with a continual sense of his dependence on him. This doubtless refers to those who are professors of religion, but who have never known anything of true and real connection with him.

A similiar verse can be read where Jesus' says to those in the church but not of the church..."And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness." Matt 7:23

The concept that the verse is about a believer that is no longer a believer and then "thrown out like a branch to wither" doesn't seem to fit. So I ask once again, show me a verse that says you can forfeit your salvation.

Peace be with you.

You understand verse 3 and verse 6 right?

God bless you.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

Peace be with you.

I must also say that believing oneself saved because one has accepted Jesus Christ does not mean you are saved.

That's just fallacy. Mortal man by their sinful nature and free will will bend and interpret Holy Scriptures for their own purposes.

Nobody can prove they are saved. Saying you are saved is an imagination that you contrive up for yourself to make yourself feel good.

To prove when one says one is saved requires death to occur, then one will find out after death whether one is truly saved if one is in Heaven.

There is only the Hope of Salvation in this life. Anything more is just wishful thinking.

God bless you.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Kenneth Wuest, perhaps the world's most blessed Greek Bible scholar, holds to Paul as the writer and the fact that the Book of Hebrews is aimed at the non-Christian Jews who had the full testimony about the Messiah and the coming Kingdom.

I read Wuest's Word Studies decades ago,
and have my 3rd or 4th copy of His Expanded Greek New Testament right here.
No where does he say what you are saying.
Did you ever read the book of Hebrews ? In RSV is perfectly fine, as well as any other translation you like - use biblegateway to compare many of them .
Hebrews is written to brethren, much more 'saved' than westerners, whether Jew or greek.
(read Hebrews and see this several times. Then go and try to find any congregation that's even partly as saved (or rather who have as good an understanding as written in Hebrews) as the brethren written to in Hebrews ! )

The Book of Hebrews is for Christians. That's why it's part of the Holy Bible.

Yes. Gloriously, in the book of Hebrews (just read some of it a few minutes ago, in WUEST's Expanded Greek) That's obvious, and has always been true.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Peace be with you. I must also say that believing oneself saved because one has accepted Jesus Christ does not mean you are saved.That's just fallacy. Mortal man by their sinful nature and free will will bend and interpret Holy Scriptures for their own purposes. Nobody can prove they are saved. Saying you are saved is an imagination that you contrive up for yourself to make yourself feel good.
To prove when one says one is saved requires death to occur, then one will find out after death whether one is truly saved if one is in Heaven.There is only the Hope of Salvation in this life. Anything more is just wishful thinking.God bless you.

It is a sad commentary on 'christendom' that unbelievers most places cannot see any difference in the lives of believers , including no change in the lives of believers when they start going to church, and even when they have been going for decades.
Not even believers can note any differences ! (many times)

So, realizing this, read again Hebrews, and Matthew, and Ephesians, and 1st John, and Revelation
and ACTS
and SEE the differences in the lives of believers there , in the Bible,
vs their lives BEFORE they were saved. Notice in the Bible, when they got immersed in Jesus, everyone saw the difference - observers, roman soldiers, Jews , gentiles - whoever was watching them, they SAW THE DIFFERENCE RIGHT AWAY, .....
so,
there's something fishy today, if NO ONE can see the difference, eh?

i.e >> FIRST, before straining and struggling and trying to make up differences to justify some or an other group,
READ ACTS, and the rest of the NT, and SEE what JESUS says is the difference, and all disciples say, AND the unbelievers say ---- there is REMARKABLE and OBSERVABLE difference between
both the old lives and the new life(immediately and continuing on) of believers,
and the lives of unbelievers and the lives of believers.....

IF there is no difference observable,
then the same thing God says in Scripture
will happen (and it's very hot news).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Kenneth Wuest, perhaps the world's most blessed Greek Bible scholar, holds to Paul as the writer and the fact that the Book of Hebrews is aimed at the non-Christian Jews who had the full testimony about the Messiah and the coming Kingdom. However, they did not fully understand the deity of Christ. Paul warned them about staying with Judaism while rejecting Jesus.

In either case, the author of Hebrew's message about sin would not change for them. The author of Hebrew's message on sin would be the same for all audiences. Why would the author of Hebrews teach a different doctrine on sin that would be contrary to other teachers on this subject in the New Testament? It wouldn't make any sense.


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[FreeGrace2]

After thinking about it and looking up the word again. I actually have to agree with you on the point involving the word "legalism." Salvation is not all about legalism. This is the problem the Pharisees encountered. They made salvation into pure legalism. There was no grace. No Savior. However, Salvation involves both Justification (repentance of sin and an acceptance of Jesus as one's Savior) and Sanctification (i.e. the good works of the Lord flowing thru the believer when they surrender their life to Him).

The Bible NEVER includes sanctification as part of the salvation process. This is just another form of "works salvation".

 

[FreeGrace2]

Again, eternal life is a person (1 John 5:12) (John 14:6).
And gifts can be forfeited in this life if one is irresponsible with them.

When will you ever provide any Scripture that supports your claims?

Does the Bible say that God's gifts are irrevocable? Yes. Rom 11:29
Does the Bible say that eternal life is a gift of God? Yes. Rom 6:23

Did Jesus say that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH? Yes. John 10:28
Did Jesus say that those who believe HAVE eternal life? Yes. John 5:24

Any more questions?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Hebrews 3:1
"Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling ..."

I can't figure out who the writer of Hebrews was writing to!
Winken says they were not Christians.
Can someone help me?

By simply reading the epistle one will understand who the audience was.

Heb 3:1 - Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess.

Why would any believer address any unbeliever as a "holy brother"?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

He was trying to evangelize them! He is saying, "Don't back away from Grace!" The message to the Hebrew folk contains tons of insights for everyone who reads it.

But if you believe in Eternal Security, then you cannot be unsaved, right?
However, if you believe they were unsaved individuals the author of Hebrews was talking to, it would not make sense that he would teach a doctrine on sin that was different than other teachers on the subject within the New Testament.


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