Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!

[Circle Christ]

And the snatching from Jesus' hands sends the "losers of salvation" into their own uproar. They try but can't get by the contradiction that kills their false theology.

Are you reading me? I hope so brother. May I have a moment of your time?

You're reading a man who you've just responded to after they told you they enjoy going to Christian forums and ministering the blasphemy that says eternal salvation is a lie. And here they are at their newest project forum doing the exact same thing. And they're telling us this why? Because they enjoy the uproar they cause.
It's blasphemy brother. Trolling. Ignore it. Their mission is to watch Christians become upset. They say this in their own words after they call Jesus false and his mission at the cross a lie. Doing so by denying eternal salvation is exactly that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It's damning not because of that. But because they are dedicated to teaching the opposite of Jesus ministry. The culmination of which caused him to be the propitiation of our sins. It is Satanic doctrine. Not Godly teachings that reiterate the truth of Jesus Christ and him crucified.
Saul was a false teacher and agent of those whom Jesus called a den of vipers. Was he the only one? Of course not. They're still active today hoping to lead people away from Christ. To disbelieve. To stay in their sins. What did Paul learn? When he was blind but then could see? And was reborn from Saul unto the messenger of Christ?

Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

Teachers of blasphemy are an abomination. Do we think we shall reach those who are of the world? And know not Jesus? But who instead minister the doctrine that is literally anti-Christ?

Several problems with your one sided shut down all communications type attitude here.

First, 2 Corinthians 11:4 says we are to bear with them that preach another gospel. Granted, I believe I preach the true gospel, but your quick tempered attitude and unwillingness to discuss things with God's Word defeats the very purpose in being a Christian. We are to be patient and loving and kind. We are to search the Scriptures whether those things be so are not like a good Berean.

Second, if you come to a Christian forum and you talk amongst other Conditional Security Proponents in a thread that deals with Eternal Security and yet refuse to hear their side of things with Scripture, it is kind of like a guy who runs into a room of mechanics who are discussing the latest model of cars and he decides to talk about about how old cars are better. Yet, when others try to speak, he refuses to listen to anyone. In other words, the purpose of coming onto a forum is to be able to talk with others. You will not get far in reaching people if you call them names and shut them down when they speak.


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[FreeGrace2]

Kinda like a baked potato I say. Be careful what you put in it.

Now, back to the question, "do you obey Biblical laws (legalism), or do you not obey Biblical laws (lawlessness)?"

If you can't or care not to answer, just say so.

Obeying Biblical laws isn't legalism, in spite of how it's being defined. And not obeying Biblical laws is lawlessness.

So the loaded question is also bogus because it includes false definitions.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Salvation in Christ is not temporary, it is eternal.
John 3:15 - 18

Be forewarned Church. A doctrine that teaches against Salvation is what?

Eternal Life is a person and not a super power or magical wish from a genie. 1 Timothy 6:16 essentially says that Jesus alone possesses immortality (eternal life). Also, 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life (eternal life) and he that does not have the Son does not have life (eternal life). Jesus Himself said I am the way the truth and the life (eternal life) (John 14:6). Jesus said, I am the bread of life (John 6:35).

In other words, you cannot be out of fellowship with Jesus and still be saved (i.e. have eternal life). In fact, here are several passages that tell us that you cannot be out of fellowship with God and be saved.

#1. 1 John 5:12 says He that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life. Life is associated with eternal life or salvation.

#2. John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation).

#3. Romans 8:9 says if he a man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him.

#4. Psalms 73:27 says God will destroy all those who abandon Him (or go a whoring from Him).

#5. John 15:6 says if a man does not abide in Him, he is cast forth and burned.

#6. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

#7. Romans 11:21-22 says if you do not continue in his goodness you will be cut off. For if God spared not the natural branches (i.e. the Jews), take heed that he can do the same to you (i.e. Gentile believers). The analogy here is that you are branch and Christ is the tree. We need to continue in Christ's righteousness or goodness, not our own righteousness or goodness, or we will be cut off because of unbelief.


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[FreeGrace2]

So reaping and sowing is about rewards. Let's look at Galatians 6 again, and see how you spin this reward.

Your opinion does not change the truth. OK, let's take a look:

7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.
8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

So, the bolded part above is a reward. Since eternal life is a reward, and it is what a person reaps, we see it what a person DOES, therefore, it ceases to be a gift.

Nope. Eternal life is NOT a reward. It's a gift, according to the Bible in Rom 6:23.
It's these kinds of mistakes that lead one down the road to false doctrines.

We see a person sows to reap or receive the reward of eternal life in Galatians 6.

Still missing the whole point. The whole idea of "sowing" is related to works, or effort. Which will be rewarded. 2 Jn 8 - Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.

So, reaping what is sown is related to works, or deeds. Which will be rewarded.

What have you sown to reap the reward of eternal life?

No, again, eternal life is a gift, not a reward. And Gal 6 is about REAPING eternal life, not receiving eternal life. It's about what is earned for eternity based on what is sown.

Getting into heaven is based on receiving the free gift of eternal life. Period.
Reaping eternal life is based on what is sown during this life, or works. Period.

Jesus taught the same principle in John 10:10 - “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.

There is a difference between "having (eternal) life and having eternal life abundantly. It doesn't take a lot of discernment to see the difference.

Peter also taught the difference in 2 Pet 11 - and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

The verses preceding v.11 specify HOW one will receive a RICH welcome into the kingdom.

iow, there is a difference between entering the kingdom and receiving a rich welcome into the kingdom.

Judas Iscariot says hello.

Sorry to hear that you've been able to talk to him. Not good news.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Obeying Biblical laws isn't legalism, in spite of how it's being defined. And not obeying Biblical laws is lawlessness.

So the loaded question is also bogus because it includes false definitions.

After thinking about it and looking up the word again. I actually have to agree with you on the point involving the word "legalism." Salvation is not all about legalism. This is the problem the Pharisees encountered. They made salvation into pure legalism. There was no grace. No Savior. However, Salvation involves both Justification (repentance of sin and an acceptance of Jesus as one's Savior) and Sanctification (i.e. the good works of the Lord flowing thru the believer when they surrender their life to Him).

However, Legalism is just as wrong as Antinomianism, though.
It's about Relationship-sim (i.e. abiding in Christ and His good ways).

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[Bible Highlighter]

Your opinion does not change the truth. OK, let's take a look:


Nope. Eternal life is NOT a reward. It's a gift, according to the Bible in Rom 6:23.
It's these kinds of mistakes that lead one down the road to false doctrines.


Still missing the whole point. The whole idea of "sowing" is related to works, or effort. Which will be rewarded. 2 Jn 8 - Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.

So, reaping what is sown is related to works, or deeds. Which will be rewarded.


No, again, eternal life is a gift, not a reward. And Gal 6 is about REAPING eternal life, not receiving eternal life. It's about what is earned for eternity based on what is sown.

Getting into heaven is based on receiving the free gift of eternal life. Period.
Reaping eternal life is based on what is sown during this life, or works. Period.

Jesus taught the same principle in John 10:10 - “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.

There is a difference between "having (eternal) life and having eternal life abundantly. It doesn't take a lot of discernment to see the difference.

Peter also taught the difference in 2 Pet 11 - and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

The verses preceding v.11 specify HOW one will receive a RICH welcome into the kingdom.

iow, there is a difference between entering the kingdom and receiving a rich welcome into the kingdom.


Sorry to hear that you've been able to talk to him. Not good news.

Again, eternal life is a person (1 John 5:12) (John 14:6).
And gifts can be forfeited in this life if one is irresponsible with them.
Jesus Christ is the pearl of great price.
Jesus is the gift.

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[Bible Highlighter]

What does God teach about those who profess their self-righteousness as saving them?

While condemning the teachings of Jesus Christ our Lord as the only true Redeemer?

You will not find too many Conditional Security Proponents who will deny Jesus Christ as their Savior. They believe Jesus saves them, too. They believe it is by His grace that they are initially saved and how they are ultimately saved in the long run. Works are just the proof in the pudding that Christ (God) lives within a person. For God is their Savior. Not some kind of super power.

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[yeshuaslavejeff]

And gifts can be forfeited in this life if one is irresponsible with them.

Hmmmm.....
Not quite ... oh, it is true, sort of....
but some (all?) (most?) (conditional?) gifts are given without repentance ... (Yhwh doesn't take them back)... of course, someone WITH GIFTS all their life, could on JUDGMENT DAY be told directly : "bye bye , I never knew you" .... who knows until then ?

also, spurring this post- "irresponsible".... some /all/ many people IN HIS KINGDOM FOREVER, were irresponsible with their talents/ gifts/ lives...
and spared anyway, Yhwh's Word,
although saved as though by fire (don't get tarnished saving them, beware)...

i.e. the wording "irresponsible" doesn't seem accurate or apropos with losing eternal life
in Scripture.

For example: "disobedient" does seem more accurate - as in sons of disobedience,
and
as in "those who did not do the will of My Father in heaven" ....
VS
"those who do the will of MY Father in heaven" ....

Children of the Father in heaven, JOYFULLY REJOICINGLY HILARIOUSLY DO HIS WILL GENEROUSLY _ EXTRAVAGANTLY GENEROUS !
that's all.
amein!.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You have never read Ezekiel 18. I suggest you do.

I am really glad you brought up Ezekiel 18.
It clearly refutes Eternal Security big time.
For verse 24 says,

"But when the righteous turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All his righteousness that he has done shall not be remembered: in his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die." (Ezekiel 18:24).

If self-righteous theology is compelled therefore to argue that those words teach that God takes those whom He has given a new heart and a new spirit and casts them into Hell, as you're attempting to do when you blaspheme the scriptures of God's new covenant of Eternal Salvation, I suggest you take a very sober read of Mark 12:24.

First, it is against forum rules to attack another Christian poster. Second, as for Mark 12:24, I am not rejecting Jesus as the Jews had done. I believe that one has to repent of their sins and accept Jesus Christ as their Savior. I believe God's grace saves me. But I also believe that Christ lives in me and that His good work flows within my heart and life.

Beware those who call Jesus Christ a liar.
And his sacrifice for naught.

Well, I have encountered a Conditional Salvationist once who denied that the blood of Jesus saves us. But most Conditional Salvationists do not believe that. It is only an odd few.

Eternal life, is in the blood of the Lamb. Eternal Salvation the Grace of God who sent his son to fulfill the covenant that is described in John 3:15-16. Those who call Jesus a liar are damned. Be not persuaded to follow if you are a seeker of Christ. Instead keep to the truth of the Savior and let the damned keep their own company in the shade.

I am glad you brought up the blood of Jesus. How do you apply the blood of Jesus to your life?

The Bible says,

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin" (1 John 1:7).


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[Bible Highlighter]

Hmmmm.....
Not quite ... oh, it is true, sort of....
but some (all?) (most?) (conditional?) gifts are given without repentance ... (Yhwh doesn't take them back)... of course, someone WITH GIFTS all their life, could on JUDGMENT DAY be told directly : "bye bye , I never knew you" .... who knows until then ?

also, spurring this post- "irresponsible".... some /all/ many people IN HIS KINGDOM FOREVER, were irresponsible with their talents/ gifts/ lives...
and spared anyway, Yhwh's Word,
although saved as though by fire (don't get tarnished saving them, beware)...

i.e. the wording "irresponsible" doesn't seem accurate or apropos with losing eternal life
in Scripture.

For example: "disobedient" does seem more accurate - as in sons of disobedience,
and
as in "those who did not do the will of My Father in heaven" ....
VS
"those who do the will of MY Father in heaven" ....

Children of the Father in heaven, JOYFULLY REJOICINGLY HILARIOUSLY DO HIS WILL GENEROUSLY _ EXTRAVAGANTLY GENEROUS !
that's all.
amein!.

Ezekiel 18:24 sheds light on this one. God no longer remembers a person's righteousness when they do evil or sin. Seeing God identifies with the righteous and not the wicked, it makes sense he would forget them as per Ezekiel 18:24.


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[yeshuaslavejeff]

Ezekiel 18:24 sheds light on this one. God no longer remembers a person's righteousness when they do evil or sin. Seeing God identifies with the righteous and not the wicked, it makes sense he would forget them as per Ezekiel 18:24....

Again, sort of ....
Oh, God's Word is totally true, absolutely true.

But I'm remembering, and trying to bring to remembrance if it's God's Purpose here,

little children who trust the Father in heaven..... who may, like the APOSTLES OF JESUS,
be irresponsible at times....
vs
and the difference in this, and being willfully disobedient, adamantly disobedient, sons of disobedience even (in the churches).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I feel sorry for your belief....it's damning....damning because you don't obey all of Gods laws.

And you know my life how?

Also, I believe the Old Covenant is no more. This means we do not look to the Old Covenant to obey God's Laws but we look to the New Covenant. Furthermore, not all sins lead unto spiritual death (See 1 John 5:16-18, 1 Peter 3:21, 1 Corinthians 3:1-3).

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[yeshuaslavejeff]

Also, I believe the Old Covenant is no more. This means we do not look to the Old Covenant to obey God's Laws but we look to the New Covenant.

This might be mis-interpreted here (no surprise, right!) ?
People did not look to the old covenant to obey God's Laws.
They simply obeyed Yhwh and did as He said, or faced punishment for it.
LIkewise in the so-called "new covenant" -
Jesus disciples ALWAYS obeyed Jesus, or they were corrected, called out, chastised, disciplined, or punished for it.
His disciples NEVER willfully disobey without being the disobedience being properly taken care of ... ever.
Just like children today, everywhere.
If they are without discipline, they are (expletive deleted).
If they are sons or daughters, they receive discipline as appropriate.
If they are sons of disobedience, they are not sons of the Father in heaven.

 

[Circle Christ]

 

[ZacharyB]

Dearest CC, you have no idea WHO these people are ...
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

This is a continual thing ... not a one-time thing!
Only these are God's elect from before the foundation of the world.

I'm repeating ...
Spiritual Truth is NOT about biases, opinions, feelings,
or the false doctrines of men which deceive many people.
One has to reconcile:
-- the many verses that state OSAS
with
-- the many verses that warn against OSAS.
I have done this.

 

[Winken]

Ezekiel 18:24 sheds light on this one. God no longer remembers a person's righteousness when they do evil or sin. Seeing God identifies with the righteous and not the wicked, it makes sense he would forget them as per Ezekiel 18:24.


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That's old Jewish covenant, Jason.

 

[Winken]

I am really glad you brought up Ezekiel 18.
It clearly refutes Eternal Security big time.
For verse 24 says,

"But when the righteous turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All his righteousness that he has done shall not be remembered: in his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die." (Ezekiel 18:24).



First, it is against forum rules to attack another Christian poster. Second, as for Mark 12:24, I am not rejecting Jesus as the Jews had done. I believe that one has to repent of their sins and accept Jesus Christ as their Savior. I believe God's grace saves me. But I also believe that Christ lives in me and that His good work flows within my heart and life.



Well, I have encountered a Conditional Salvationist once who denied that the blood of Jesus saves us. But most Conditional Salvationists do not believe that. It is only an odd few.



I am glad you brought up the blood of Jesus. How do you apply the blood of Jesus to your life?

The Bible says,

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin" (1 John 1:7).


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A Christian walks in the Light.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's old Jewish covenant, Jason.

No. Ezekiel 18:24 is a truth that is also expressed in the New Covenant, as well.

26 "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much worse punishment, suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done insult unto the Spirit of grace?"
(Hebrews 10:26-29).

"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him."
(Hebrews 10:38).

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[Bible Highlighter]

A Christian walks in the Light.

1 John 3:7 says, "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous"


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