200,000 books

[joshua 1 9]

The sinless person does not exist.

John Wesley may take issue with that. He would ask: Just what sin is God not able to deliver people from?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Funny, exactly the opposite for me. I was raised in a conservative baptist home, and eventually I found that my questions could not be answered by the Bible, and it makes far more sense as a piece of fiction from superstitious, primitive man.

I can understand that, the church leaves a lot to be desired sometimes. Someone explained to me one day that we need the Holy Spirit of God to help us understand the Bible. We can not trust in man for our understanding. God has the answers and the solutions. They are in the Bible but we will not be able to find them unless God helps us and give us wisdom, knowledge and understanding. I think he gives understanding to atheists also but they do not want to honor Him for that.

 

[lesliedellow]

John Wesley may take issue with that. He would ask: Just what sin is God not able to deliver people from?

If he did take issue with it, that would have made him a Pelagian. I doubt if that is a label he would have wanted to wear.

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1.8)

 

[JaneC]

You will find a whole host of opinions amongst historians about the causes of the First World War, but they would deny to a man that they hold the opinions they do based upon nothing but feelings.

That's because something physical happened and they didn't need feelings.

For your information, I was brought up in a family which was wholly disinterested in religion.

Of course you were, you found your God all by yourself, I have never heard a believer say anything different.

 

[JaneC]

I was raised to be a Secular Humanist.

Of course you were.

Christianity was something I found because I needed solutions and answers.

Then why did you turned to a book of myths that posed more questions than answers.

I found that the Bible and God has an answer for every question and a solution for every problem.

That's if you don't mind the answer to every question being 'Goddidit', All I can say is you are very easily pleased.

 

[lesliedellow]

That's because something physical happened and they didn't need feelings

They need a subjective evaluation of the available evidence.

Of course you were, you found your God all by yourself, I have never heard a believer say anything different.

So you think you know my life history better than I do? Well, I am sorry if the facts of the case upset your fixed ideas.

 

[JaneC]

So you think you know my life history better than I do? Well, I am sorry if the facts of the case upset your fixed ideas.

Not at all, it just seems strange how not one Christian here has ever grown up in a family where they were never given the option of being anything other than a Christian, every one came to god on their own.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Then why did you turned to a book of myths that posed more questions than answers.

How can you and I look at the same book and come to totally different conclusions?

 

[46AND2]

How can you and I look at the same book and come to totally different conclusions?

For the same reason you would both have different answers to this question.

 

[joshua 1 9]

That's if you don't mind the answer to every question being 'Goddidit', All I can say is you are very easily pleased.

I am talking about serious solutions for serious problems. Corrie Tan Boom comes to mind because she was a Holocaust survivor and lost all of her family to the Holocaust. One day she ran into one of the cruelest guards in the camp she was in. He walked up to her and said: I know that God forgives me, but do you forgive me. These are the sort of problems and these are the sort of solutions I am talking about. We all have issues in life and I know that whatever I have to deal with God is going to show me the way. He does not do things my way. I did not invent God, I did not create God and I do not have the solution and the answers for the issues that people encounter in life: But God does. One thing is for sure, man does not have solutions for the problems and serious issues that people have to deal with.

My dad was a medical doctor. One day he took us to see one of his polo patients. This was a very strange looking person. He was around 21 and he had a normal sized head, even a good looking guy. But he had the body of a 3 year old. I remember he liked to read and he had something he put in his mouth to change the pages. That was before computers and we did not even have much in the way of TV back then. I was amazed at how happy that family was. They were so happy that my dad brought his family to their home to visit with them. They had set up a hospital bed for their son in the dinning room so really the whole house revolved around him as they took care of him. The reason my dad wanted us to meet him is because he was so impressed with the way this family was dealing with a sickness that others were not able to deal with. They had the strength they needed because God was a part of their life. They knew they could get through whatever life threw their way.

Perhaps you do not know the strength we can get from God in our time of need and trouble. Because He is always there for us. I would not want to live a life that God was not a part of. We would not be here having this conversation if God were not a part of my life.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Pelagian

John Wesley believed that the Blood of Jesus could cleanse us from all our sin. He began a Holiness movement that is still going today.

 

[JaneC]

John Wesley believed that the Blood of Jesus could cleanse us from all our sin. He began a Holiness movement that is still going today.

It worked because it gave gullible and desperate people the hope of a better life to come, when death was everywhere and people had ten children and only two or three survived they would cling to anything that might make their lives a little easier to bear, today people believe it because they are too lazy to look for the truth, Goddidit is their answer to every question, not that they do much questioning.

 

[lesliedellow]

[QUOTE="JaneC, post: 69826189, member: 388721]today people believe it because they are too lazy to look for the truth, Goddidit is their answer to every question, not that they do much questioning.[/QUOTE]

https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB674GB674&hl=en-GB&ei=Dxl6V_T8NMyegAbw4JWQCg&q=charles+h+townes+pic&oq=charles+h+townes+pic&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.3...292810.310103.0.310895.40.39.1.10.10.0.291.5203.3j28j6.37.0....0...1c.1.64.mobile-gws-serp..15.22.1754.3..0j46j35i39j0i22i30j0i13j0i10j0i131j0i67j0i46.q7-QEMmugNU#imgrc=DfE1x3XoFYVZWM:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=john+d+barrow&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB674GB674&hl=en-GB&prmd=visn&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&fir=nxY3FjbsWb7GUM%3A%2CndHI1EDmUHpEmM%2C%2Fm%2F02_srf%3BCPlH2TbP6iGSzM%3A%2CBmi9DWjnBT_XvM%2C_%3BcG6GcymY2MQGQM%3A%2Ce7gIHt6BmnQ2UM%2C_%3BzbLKapKxtUIhKM%3A%2CfPMtHJXNgaZEhM%2C_%3Bes7uwiIk_bBKmM%3A%2C10fUni1-eMBXZM%2C_%3BwH7GUYOFOoO-KM%3A%2CW3PISDSHVMzycM%2C_%3BENJcl9Owwn1ciM%3A%2CAesp_qlSDLGM9M%2C_%3BOVimTlCy5_UpUM%3A%2Cj5JkHRa6Rse68M%2C_%3BKvdm39C5mMQFVM%3A%2CA0aqBJq1FpQkYM%2C_%3BY-AVZb4G4s4rTM%3A%2CD5o_bMIaAhTx-M%2C_%3BkqoRmR3MCF2XoM%3A%2Cwmd-45aFL0AEQM%2C_&usg=__Ue9KFut_-wiE2oYUp_MNULdUSeo=&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjbr4yHr9nNAhXmKsAKHZjLBiYQ420IUQ&biw=768&bih=909#imgrc=b88y8kUXC4cSrM:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB674GB674&hl=en-GB&biw=768&bih=596&ei=ihx6V7TLCOqUgAb6yZ_wAQ&q=francisco+ayala+pic&oq=francisco+ayala+pic&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.3...15214.17955.0.18738.5.5.0.0.0.0.147.433.2j2.4.0....0...1c..64.mobile-gws-serp..1.3.345...0j0i19j0i22i30.bugH3oyVXpo#imgrc=v2giuw9qK-u4UM:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB674GB674&hl=en-GB&biw=768&bih=596&ei=_h16V_yrA6uIgAb97ovADg&q=william+phillips+physicist+pic&oq=william+phillips+physicist+pic&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.3...18778.30137.0.30784.17.16.1.5.5.0.133.1567.7j8.15.0....0...1c..64.mobile-gws-serp..1.14.925...0j35i39j0i22i30.QgPbqF3p0WY#imgrc=aNtCgq9rFDOQAM:

Charles H Townes, John D Barrow, Francisco Ayala and William Phillips. Being too lazy to look for the truth got two of them Nobel Prizes.

 

[JaneC]

Charles H Townes, John D Barrow, Francisco Ayala and William Phillips. Being too lazy to look for the truth got two of them Nobel Prizes.

Religious indoctrination done properly never goes away no matter where life takes one.
Those people could achieve wonderful things but did not have either the power or the inclination to look at why they believed as they did, they just believed because it was either too hard or too painful to look deeper and find out the truth, if they were not indoctrinated then they had problems we are not privy to, only they would know why they needed to turn to religion.

 

[Jimmy D]

Religious indoctrination done properly never goes away no matter where life takes one.
Those people could achieve wonderful things but did not have either the power or the inclination to look at why they believed as they did, they just believed because it was either too hard or too painful to look deeper and find out the truth.

How do you know what they believed or how they examined their beliefs?

 

[lesliedellow]

Religious indoctrination done properly never goes away no matter where life takes one.
Those people could achieve wonderful things but did not have either the power or the inclination to look at why they believed as they did, they just believed because it was either too hard or too painful to look deeper and find out the truth, if they were not indoctrinated then they had problems we are not privy to, only they would know why they needed to turn to religion.

You really do have problems with the idea that some people think differently to you, don't you?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=f...=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=inulcekWqRpuBM:

The means by which he came to be a Christian is a story in the public domain, so there is no need to theorise about it.

 

[JaneC]

How do you know what they believed or how they examined their beliefs?

Anyone espousing to hold irrational beliefs obviously does not think rationally about their beliefs, like Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and his belief in fairies.
Belief in a God should not stop at "Is there a God", other questions should follow, like Why, How, Where and When?
if those are not answered you have settled on an answer because questioning further would give you answers you don't want to hear.

 

[JaneC]

You really do have problems with the idea that some people think differently to you, don't you?

Not at all, no two people think alike but thinking irrationally is surely not to be considered normal, it's why we treat people for Schizophrenia, self harm and suicidal tendencies, seeing a person talking to themself might give you cause for concern but when you find out they are praying you immediately give them a free pass, if you gave it some thought you wouldn't because talking to an imaginary friend is not the kind of thing everyday people {outside of America and Arab countries} do, it's OK for children to do it but not adults.

 

[lesliedellow]

Anyone espousing to hold irrational beliefs obviously does not think rationally about their beliefs

We do like our tautologies, don't we? I'm not sure what they are meant to prove, however.

 

[lesliedellow]

Not at all, no two people think alike but thinking irrationally is surely not to be considered normal, it's why we treat people for Schizophrenia, self harm and suicidal tendencies, seeing a person talking to themself might give you cause for concern but when you find out they are praying you immediately give them a free pass, if you gave it some thought you wouldn't because talking to an imaginary friend is not the kind of thing everyday people {outside of America and Arab countries} do, it's OK for children to do it but not adults.

"Not at all." And then follows a rant falsifying that initial assertion.