Why did Jesus Leave?

[Archaeopteryx]

Once again, this is first an foremost a Christian philosophy forum, and this particular thread is asking a very specific question about Jesus.

If you desire a place where you can suggest that Jesus is "nothing special" and continue to question the Diety of Jesus and the Christian faith, there are many secular forums on the Internet. This is not one of them.

I don't understand why you're so shocked by the suggestion the Jesus was "not special" in that he was not the only one to claim to be a messiah. Also, why would you be shocked that someone would question the supposed divinity of Jesus on a philosophy forum? Philosophers throughout the centuries have doubted such claims. So why is it so shocking that such doubts would be expressed here, on a philosophy forum?

 

[HitchSlap]

What is your point? Because I refuse to answer trivial questions being asked for no real purpose but to undermine the Christian faith in some way.

I was making a statement that I prefer honest answers, to which you replied that Christians give honest answers. So I've noticed, when Christians are faced with challenging questions, they ignore or give disingenuous responses. Just like you are now.

It's an easy question. Why won't you answer it?

 

[amariselle]

I don't think it was well thought through, for reasons I've already mentioned. But you haven't engaged with those points because you've abandoned the thread.

I "abandoned the thread" because you were asking the same questions over and over, and you have admitted that the reason for this is because you simply weren't satisfied with the answers I DID give. Oh well, then you're not satisfied. I haven't been "satisfied" with many of your answers either, but at least I haven't repeatedly accused you of not answering at all. Why? Because I am not interested in playing pointless games. You've given answers, I don't agree with them, I may tell you I don't and why, but then I wish to move on.

It could be. But given its location, this is not the appropriate place for outreach activities.

Addressing your claim that "Jesus is nothing special" is not an "outreach activity. I don't for one moment think I'm going to convince you to believe in Jesus again. However, if you are going to make such claims on a Christian forum in a thread specifically about Jesus, expect your claim to be questioned.

Huh? You still haven't answered the question: why would it be terrible that my faith eroded?

I don't believe you are honestly asking. You are an intelligent person and by your own admission you were once a Christian. Am I wrong to think you know the answer already?

Where did I state that? Could you please point to the post?

You implied as much by suggesting that specifically Christian viewpoints didn't belong on a Christian philosophy forum.

Um, yes? Obviously. Again, this is a philosophy forum. Why on earth would you be shocked by such a statement on a philosophy forum?

Who said I was "shocked"? I didn't.

As I recall, you presented your usual rebuttal: "that's just your opinion, man!" What am I supposed to do with that? It doesn't address what I've said in any substantial way.

Move on. You seem to have a problem with doing that sometimes.

I don't however, so I will, because this is once again (no surprise) going absolutely nowhere.

The OP asked very specific questions about why Jesus left, and like it or not, the statement "Jesus is nothing special" has nothing to do with the questions asked here. (Since you are so insistent on the rules of conduct on a philosophy board)

In any case I did address the OP directly regarding their specific questions.

 

[amariselle]

I don't understand why you're so shocked by the suggestion the Jesus was "not special" in that he was not the only one to claim to be a messiah. Also, why would you be shocked that someone would question the supposed divinity of Jesus on a philosophy forum? Philosophers throughout the centuries have doubted such claims. So why is it so shocking that such doubts would be expressed here, on a philosophy forum?

There's that word again. I never once said I was "shocked" and I also acknowledged that Jesus' claim wasn't in itself unique. He also admitted others would say such things. Apparently you missed that post, as you still seem to think that I believe Jesus was the only One to say He is the Messiah.

 

[amariselle]

I was making a statement that I prefer honest answers, to which you replied that Christians give honest answers. So I've noticed, when Christians are faced with challenging questions, they ignore or give disingenuous responses. Just like you are now.

It's an easy question. Why won't you answer it?

I have every right to ask you motives behind such a question. I will not waste my time or yours playing games. If you don't want to tell me your reasons for asking, don't expect an answer.

 

[Albion]

Why is it that some Atheists are always suggesting that Christians leave a Christian forum?

As I said, they treat this "Philosophy" subforum of CF as their own forum. The discussions are seldom actually about "Philosophy," we all know.

 

[amariselle]

Confirmation bias?

Honest observation actually.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I "abandoned the thread" because you were asking the same questions over and over, and you have admitted that the reason for this is because you simply weren't satisfied with the answers I DID give.

Because they were poorly reasoned, as I already explained in the very thread that you abandoned. All you seem to care about is giving an answer. It doesn't matter to you whether your answer was able to satisfy the question. It wasn't. I suspect you abandoned the thread because you realised that you couldn't satisfy the question.

You've given answers, I don't agree with them, I may tell you I don't and why, but then I wish to move on.

If you don't agree with them, then tell me why. Don't give me a response along the lines of "That's just your opinion, man." What a useless response; a waste of words.

Addressing your claim that "Jesus is nothing special" is not an "outreach activity. I don't for one moment think I'm going to convince you to believe in Jesus again. However, if you are going to make such claims on a Christian forum in a thread specifically about Jesus, expect your claim to be questioned.

That's the problem: you didn't question it. All you said was, in essence, "that's just your opinion, man." That's not an example of questioning.

I don't believe you are honestly asking. You are an intelligent person and by your own admission you were once a Christian. Am I wrong to think you know the answer already?

I don't know what you think the answer is because you've repeatedly declined to offer it. So are you going to answer the question or not? Why is it so terrible?

You implied as much by suggesting that specifically Christian viewpoints didn't belong on a Christian philosophy forum.

Errr... I never said that, so that would be inaccurate. By the way, this is not a "Christian philosophy" forum. It's a philosophy forum on a Christian website. This is the Christian philosophy forum.

Who said I was "shocked"? I didn't.

Your over-reaction suggests shock.

The OP asked very specific questions about why Jesus left, and like it or not, the statement "Jesus is nothing special" has nothing to do with the questions asked here. (Since you are so insistent on the rules of conduct on a philosophy board)

So you're not actually going to address what I said, beyond your usual "that's just your opinion, man" comment? Why am I not surprised?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

As I said, they treat this "Philosophy" subforum of CF as their own forum. The discussions are seldom actually about "Philosophy," we all know.

I don't see you raising this complaint when Christians respond by posting Bible verses that have little or nothing to do with the material they are responding to. I don't see you complain when Christians preach and proselytise here, even though it isn't the place for it. I don't see you complaining about the rules that actually govern this forum, which degrade the quality of the philosophical discourse. But somehow we are to blame for the poor state that the Philosophy forum is in.

 

[HitchSlap]

You prove my point. My faith is not a game to me.

As I said, I prefer honest answers to "Christian" ones.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

There's that word again. I never once said I was "shocked" and I also acknowledged that Jesus' claim wasn't in itself unique. He also admitted others would say such things. Apparently you missed that post, as you still seem to think that I believe Jesus was the only One to say He is the Messiah.

No, I didn't miss that post. I responded to it. Perhaps you missed mine?

 

[amariselle]

Because they were poorly reasoned, as I already explained in the very thread that you abandoned. All you seem to care about is giving an answer. It doesn't matter to you whether your answer was able to satisfy the question. It wasn't. I suspect you abandoned the thread because you realised that you couldn't satisfy the question.

If you don't agree with them, then tell me why. Don't give me a response along the lines of "That's just your opinion, man." What a useless response; a waste of words.

That's the problem: you didn't question it. All you said was, in essence, "that's just your opinion, man." That's not an example of questioning.

I don't know what you think the answer is because you've repeatedly declined to offer it. So are you going to answer the question or not? Why is it so terrible?

Errr... I never said that, so that would be inaccurate. By the way, this is not a "Christian philosophy" forum. It's a philosophy forum on a Christian website. This is the Christian philosophy forum.

Your over-reaction suggests shock.

So you're not actually going to address what I said, beyond your usual "that's just your opinion, man" comment? Why am I not surprised?

You won't be surprised that I'm done wasting my time either then. In any case, some very important things have been made absolutely clear to me, so, thank you.

 

[amariselle]

As I said, I prefer honest answers to "Christian" ones.

Yes, I know, suggesting that the two can't ever be the same.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

You won't be surprised that I'm done wasting my time either then. In any case, some very important things have been made absolutely clear to me, so, thank you.

What things have been made clear to you?

 

[HitchSlap]

I have every right to ask you motives behind such a question. I will not waste my time or yours playing games. If you don't want to tell me your reasons for asking, don't expect an answer.

This is my point exactly. You assume ulterior motives, and I'm asking a genuine question.
Have you asked yourself why this is so hard for you to answer?

 

[amariselle]

Here is the original topic/questions of this thread if anyone else is interested in addressing it.

I think it's a valid question from a position of any given skeptic.

I really don't buy the oversimplified answers like "If he didn't leave then Holy Spirit wouldn't come", Or "He left because the mission to spread the Gospel had to be fulfilled", or to "Prepare a place", again neither make a lot of sense in a scope what Christianity is and what it expects.

The question is whether this world is better if Jesus is there for all to be able to experience apart from some "feeling" or a book narrative? It wouldn't make Christianity to be so doubtable. Every Thomas out there could visit a 2000 year old dude with holes in his hands and believe.

Why leave without a trace, and except leave the world with a story and a promise of hope.

It seems like a good excuse to mask the reason as to why Jesus is not here. "Well, he was here, but you've missed him by about 2000 years, BUT he's coming back soon... so just wait and read this book about him".

Perhaps there are other reasonable explanations, but what would these be? What do you think?

 

[HitchSlap]

Yes, I know, suggesting that the two can't ever be the same.

You've already made my point.

 

[Albion]

I don't see you raising this complaint when Christians respond by posting Bible verses that have little or nothing to do with the material they are responding to.

We're talking about the nature or purpose behind this particular forum. It's not set aside for Atheists, like OBOB is for Catholics or STR is for Anglicans, etc.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

We're talking about the nature or purpose behind this particular forum. It's not set aside for Atheists, like OBOB is for Catholics or STR is for Anglicans, etc.

And no one claimed that it was set aside for atheists. Well, no one except those who snidely (and wrongly) remarked that we think it is set aside for us.

 

[Albion]

And no one claimed that it was set aside for atheists.

LOL Of course the Atheists aren't going to admit to that. What I said is that they treat it as their own.