LDS Joseph Smith's Claim of an Apostasy is a Lie

[ToBeLoved]

Still very twisted in the ways she presents things.

If I were her, I'd start reporting you for flaming. Otherwise this will continue.

I'm sick of reading it all.

 

[Jane_Doe]

But Jane, she always lists your scripture or words from your prophets and apostles. So, it's not incorrect.

Taken out of context, and meaning twisted. She is very incorrect.

I've yet to see one adequate correction, unless you want to point three or four out with links to the text.

If you want to point out a specific example, feel free.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Taken out of context, and meaning twisted. She is very incorrect.

If you want to point out a specific example, feel free.

I don't see that she's wrong. They really don't write at a high level, it's very easy reading so I'm not sure what there is to twist.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I don't see that she's wrong. They really don't write at a high level, it's very easy reading so I'm not sure what there is to twist.

Context and authority for starters.

 

[Ironhold]

I think Mormons really do need to see the light statistically. If they were God's true church, God would have been in this and there would be way more than 4.5 million active believers. The fact that there has been a mass exodus in the last 35 years should be telling them something.

1. It took how long for mainline Christianity to become the dominant religion it became?

2. How big an exodus did it face even during the time of the Apostles?

The arguments you're using here can just as easily be turned against mainline Christianity.

The fact that they are not converting established Christians in droves, shows me that the Holy Spirit is not guiding Christians towards this religion.

No, what's happening is that mainline Christianity has a cottage industry of telling lies about people it doesn't like to folks who often can't be bothered to do their own homework.

Our lack of "success" as you call it is thus down to "Christian" lies and "Christian" apathy.

Christians are easily holding their ground because Mormonism looks nothing like Christianity so we easily see that it is not for us.

If you're so easily holding your ground, then mind explaining why so many people soil their trousers when a Mormon is up for elected office?

 

[Rescued One]

You don't seem like you've left: it seems like you spend a lot of time going through LDS beliefs.

Well, you Mormons just can't agree. One thinks I never was Mormon, the other thinks I still am! I pray for Mormons to see the truth, so you can be set free as so many of us have been.

 

[Ironhold]

What civilizations did Christianity conquer? You make it sound like a civilization. WHAT?

It's Christian History 101, TBL.

Not only did Christianity spread through the sword, it maintained through the sword.

Once Constantine declared that Christianity was the official state religion, it became illegal to believe otherwise. From then on through the Dark Ages, if you were not a professing "Christian" (with "Christian" being defined by the ruling monarch) you were executed on the spot. Entire villages were wiped out because of this mentality, which is where we got the phrase "Kill them all, and let God sort them out" from; a government official couldn't tell who were the "Good Christians" in a village and who were the "heretics", so he ordered the entire population executed in the belief that God would take care of the sorting.

Nor was this limited to Europe and the Mediterranean. As the European powers moved elsewhere in the world, they brought Christianity with them... and executed all who refused to join. Some Spanish conquistadors were so thorough in trying to eradicate any competing religion that they went so far as to destroy records and monuments that they thought "heretical", thus robbing the world of centuries of learning.

It was actually a huge freaking deal that the United States put in place a Constitutional right to freedom of religion, as quite simply such freedom was virtually unheard of at the time. Even as late as the 1800s, many nations still defined "good citizenship" as "membership in the 'correct' 'Christian' faith". In fact, this is part of what spurred the Texas Revolution: Mexico tried to force Catholicism on all of the settlers who came to Texas back when it was still a Mexican territory.

How is it that you did not know this? Just about every American history and European history textbook I've had was honest about this, and I live in Texas, a place where one would think this kind of information would be suppressed as heavily as the government's mistreatment of the LDS faith.

 

[Rescued One]

Christianity doesn't save --- Jesus does and the Holy Spirit, which the world can't receive, teaches truth to those who are being sanctified.

 

[Ironhold]

No other church counts children of 8 years old.

You can back that statement up, correct?

 

[Rescued One]

With all due respect to Phoebe, her representations are usually very twisted from actual LDS beliefs, hence the many posts following hers, correcting things.

You seem to be dreaming.

 

[Rescued One]

Taken out of context, and meaning twisted. She is very incorrect.

If you want to point out a specific example, feel free.

I've been waiting for correction. Can you find it and post it, or just criticize without supporting your criticism?

 

[Jane_Doe]

Well, you Mormons just can't agree. One thinks I never was Mormon, the other thinks I still am! I pray for Mormons to see the truth, so you can be set free as so many of us have been.

Correction: I don't think you're still a practicing Mormon, I just think you can't leave it behind you. Like someone who break's up with an ex and then can't quit obsessing about them. It's not moving on.

 

[mmksparbud]

Still very twisted in the ways she presents things.

You can't twist a direct quote!! This is the Mormon pat answer---always saying things are misleading but never stating directly what is misleading. Because all I have seen here is how you guys takes biblical verses and twist them to try to make them fit what JS teaches. Or you will say "not official church doctrine"--even though it is something that everybody believes in. And even when something is quoted from your LDS website, you will then say, it's official but not scripture---your scripture, that is. Sometimes it seems that nobody knows exactly what is your truth.

 

[mmksparbud]

Correction: I don't think you're still a practicing Mormon, I just think you can't leave it behind you. Like someone who break's up with an ex and then can't quit obsessing about them. It's not moving on.

What you do not understand is that she is moving on---- she is trying to help other Mormons who are looking to get out, to see the real truth and help them move on also.

 

[Rescued One]

Correction: I don't think you're still a practicing Mormon, I just think you can't leave it behind you. Like someone who break's up with an ex and then can't quit obsessing about them. It's not moving on.

Serving Jesus is the calling of a lifetime.

 

[ToBeLoved]

..

 

[ToBeLoved]

Serving Jesus is the calling of a lifetime.

Exactly. Why shouldn't you be here. This is getting personal. That's what I think.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You can't twist a direct quote!! This is the Mormon pat answer---always saying things are misleading but never stating directly what is misleading. Because all I have seen here is how you guys takes biblical verses and twist them to try to make them fit what JS teaches. Or you will say "not official church doctrine"--even though it is something that everybody believes in. And even when something is quoted from your LDS website, you will then say, it's official but not scripture---your scripture, that is. Sometimes it seems that nobody knows exactly what is your truth.

Amen sister!

I think she's mad because we support ALL of our scripture and she can't support hers.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Maybe this is a squirrel we've fallen into chasing. We just got back on topic about JS calling Christians apostate. Let her think what she wants but she shouldn't write it or just report it.

 

[ToBeLoved]

1. It took how long for mainline Christianity to become the dominant religion it became?

2. How big an exodus did it face even during the time of the Apostles?

The arguments you're using here can just as easily be turned against mainline Christianity.

I don't think so. The Christian church was growing from the beginning. Some left but more became new Christians.

What citations do you have for this? I'll wait.