LDS Joseph Smith's Claim of an Apostasy is a Lie

[tickingclocker]

First of all, to say "LDS mormonism" is redundant, say LDS or Mormonism and people will understand.

Second, I'm sure you believe we give twisted truths, and half truths, and out right lies, I would not think you would be caught dead twisting the truth or giving half truths, or out right lying, but you have in your silly list of Mormon beliefs. You need to update your list and tell the truth about what we believe.

Third, here is a scripture:
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

How do you reconcile this scripture with your salvation theology?

First of all, do not assume you will ever have the right to tell me what to say or what to think. Because I meant precisely what I wrote if you took the time to read it.

LDS isn't all there is to mormonism. No other BoM-believing based church accepts the overwhelming majority of false LDS doctrinal beliefs. None of them believe in human godhood, polygamy (except for the FLDS, and similar off-shoot branches), Jesus is Jehovah, priesthood, Adam as Michael, and on down the line. Some do have the same false "apostles" as the LDS. They all follow along with the "translated correctly" line (because they must in order to promote the BoM as truth), as well as the "apostasy" fairy tale (in order to promote mormonism). That is where mormonism's similarity ends.

Prove where the lies are. You and many, many others have tried and tried and tried over the years, but it remains there in official LDS black and white. I gleaned that list from the Mormon.org website and your own "articles of faith". It's just the basics. Why bother with the lesser silly stuff (like Eden in MO, hats and seerstones, etc.) when mormonism makes God out to be less than who He has eternally been? That essentially screeches the truth to a halt before the starting gate was ever opened. If you don't like the list of your own beliefs staring you in the face with its stark unbiblical realities, or publicly revealing the sheer fantasy of mormonism to the world? You can always walk away from mormonism, right? It's not like doing so has ever been uncommon.

On this particular forum every one of you "lifers" have consistently been unable to persuade anyone that Christianity and mormonism have one single thing held in common, no matter how much effort you have gone to. At all. Face it. There is no commonality. Never has been. Never will be.

Ever notice Christians never bother with taking the road of, "what does Christianity have in common with mormonism"? Unlike Mormons who attempt it all the time with, "we have so much in common with Christians". Christianity has no need to blend God's truth with JS' lies.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Matt 28
19 ¶Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I havecommanded you

Mark 14
22 ¶And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

John 13
4 He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
5 After that he poureth water into a basin, and began towash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded
7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.
12 So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?

Be nice if you would read the Bible instead of just guess about what's in there.

Not really. Jesus washing feet is not an ordinance and baptism for us is not needed for salvation but is commanded of us to do.


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[Jane_Doe]

Not really. Jesus washing feet is not an ordinance and baptism for us is not needed for salvation but is commanded of us to do.


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So you believe God commands us to do not important stuff?

 

[fatboys]

First of all, do not assume you will ever have the right to tell me what to say or what to think. Because I meant precisely what I wrote if you took the time to read it.

LDS isn't all there is to mormonism. No other BoM-believing based church accepts the overwhelming majority of false LDS doctrinal beliefs. None of them believe in human godhood, polygamy (except for the FLDS, and similar off-shoot branches), Jesus is Jehovah, priesthood, Adam as Michael, and on down the line. Some do have the same false "apostles" as the LDS. They all follow along with the "translated correctly" line (because they must in order to promote the BoM as truth), as well as the "apostasy" fairy tale (in order to promote mormonism). That is where mormonism's similarity ends.

Prove where the lies are. You and many, many others have tried and tried and tried over the years, but it remains there in official LDS black and white. I gleaned that list from the Mormon.org website and your own "articles of faith". It's just the basics. Why bother with the lesser silly stuff (like Eden in MO, hats and seerstones, etc.) when mormonism makes God out to be less than who He has eternally been? That essentially screeches the truth to a halt before the starting gate was ever opened. If you don't like the list of your own beliefs staring you in the face with its stark unbiblical realities, or publicly revealing the sheer fantasy of mormonism to the world? You can always walk away from mormonism, right? It's not like doing so has ever been uncommon.

On this particular forum every one of you "lifers" have consistently been unable to persuade anyone that Christianity and mormonism have one single thing held in common, no matter how much effort you have gone to. At all. Face it. There is no commonality. Never has been. Never will be.

How do you know that it is not your faith that draws near with your lips but your hearts are far from God?

 

[tickingclocker]

How do you know that it is not your faith that draws near with your lips but your hearts are far from God?

If my heart was far from God, why would I wake up each and every morning with His peace and joy in my heart, knowing the Lord loves me. That's not a question. That's a statement of truth. My lips praise Him each and every day for who He is--Awesome, what He has done--Faithful, what He is doing--Powerful, and what He will continue to do---bear heavenly Fruit--in my life. That answer your question? If it doesn't, there's nothing I can do for you but pray one day you, too, come to see the Lord in the same light every morning as I do. Hopefully soon. Time is always short.

 

[ToBeLoved]

So you believe God commands us to do not important stuff?

Are you talking about feet washing or baptism?

 

[Jane_Doe]

Are you talking about feet washing or baptism?

In general. Does God command us to do not important stuff?

 

[Jane_Doe]

If my heart was far from God, why would I wake up each and every morning with His peace and joy in my heart, knowing the Lord loves me. That's not a question. That's a statement of truth. My lips praise Him each and every day for who He is--Awesome, what He has done--Faithful, what He is doing--Powerful, and what He will continue to do---bear heavenly Fruit--in my life.

I also wake up every morning with His peace and joy in my heart, knowing the Lord loves me, not a single question in my mind about it. My lips, actions, and thoughts praise Him every second. He is amazing, awe-inspiring, ever faith fun, without end to His righteousness nor power. I am His servant and through His power my life does bear heavenly fruit.

 

[ToBeLoved]

In general. Does God command us to do not important stuff?

I'm not going to talk in general. Then that is more opinion.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I also wake up every morning with His peace and joy in my heart, knowing the Lord loves me, not a single question in my mind about it. My lips, actions, and thoughts praise Him every second. He is amazing, awe-inspiring, ever faith fun, without end to His righteousness nor power. I am His servant and through His power my life does bear heavenly fruit.

So why then are those in this thread so confused about spiritual things and unable to discuss them and how they influence their lives? And why would you guys be so confused about spiritual verses in the Bible if the Spirit was teaching you?

I mean, if the Holy Spirit was so important Mormonism wouldn't teach that it can only be imparted temporarily by someone in the priesthood.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I'm not going to talk in general. Then that is more opinion.

You believe it's an OPINION about whether or not God's commandments are important?

 

[Jane_Doe]

So why then are those in this thread so confused about spiritual things

And why would you guys be so confused about spiritual verses in the Bible if the Spirit was teaching you?

I am not confused about the above things. I do find many of the responses on this thread to be using poor explaining techniques, which makes trying to understand their point of view confusing.

and unable to discuss them and how they influence their lives?

I am happy to discuss this.

 

[withwonderingawe]

I mean, if the Holy Spirit was so important Mormonism wouldn't teach that it can only be imparted temporarily by someone in the priesthood.

No it's the other way around. One can receive the prompting of the Holy Spirit, that prick in the heart that testifies Jesus is the Christ and which moves them to ask what more do we need, (see acts 2) but if we do not act on that prompting then the Holy Spirit will leave.

The Gift of the Holy Ghost given through a priesthood holder by the laying on of hands is a permanent gift. The Holy Spirit resides with us as a guide throughout our lives.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You believe it's an OPINION about whether or not God's commandments are important?

I said that speaking about God in generalities can easily wander into opinion. Note the word 'generalities'. That is why I said I will not discuss important concepts using generalities.

Please read what I write please.

 

[ToBeLoved]

No it's the other way around. One can receive the prompting of the Holy Spirit, that prick in the heart that testifies Jesus is the Christ and which moves them to ask what more do we need, (see acts 2) but if we do not act on that prompting then the Holy Spirit will leave.
.

That is not the Christian's understanding of the Holy Spirit. That must be specific to Mormonism

 

[withwonderingawe]

First of all, do not assume you will ever have the right to tell me what to say or what to think. Because I meant precisely what I wrote if you took the time to read it.

LDS isn't all there is to mormonism. No other BoM-believing based church accepts the overwhelming majority of false LDS doctrinal beliefs. None of them believe in human godhood, polygamy (except for the FLDS, and similar off-shoot branches), Jesus is Jehovah, priesthood, Adam as Michael, and on down the line. Some do have the same false "apostles" as the LDS. They all follow along with the "translated correctly" line (because they must in order to promote the BoM as truth), as well as the "apostasy" fairy tale (in order to promote mormonism). That is where mormonism's similarity ends.

Prove where the lies are. You and many, many others have tried and tried and tried over the years, but it remains there in official LDS black and white. I gleaned that list from the Mormon.org website and your own "articles of faith". It's just the basics. Why bother with the lesser silly stuff (like Eden in MO, hats and seerstones, etc.) when mormonism makes God out to be less than who He has eternally been? That essentially screeches the truth to a halt before the starting gate was ever opened. If you don't like the list of your own beliefs staring you in the face with its stark unbiblical realities, or publicly revealing the sheer fantasy of mormonism to the world? You can always walk away from mormonism, right? It's not like doing so has ever been uncommon.

On this particular forum every one of you "lifers" have consistently been unable to persuade anyone that Christianity and mormonism have one single thing held in common, no matter how much effort you have gone to. At all. Face it. There is no commonality. Never has been. Never will be.

Ever notice Christians never bother with taking the road of, "what does Christianity have in common with mormonism"? Unlike Mormons who attempt it all the time with, "we have so much in common with Christians". Christianity has no need to blend God's truth with JS' lies.

The one thing we do hold in common is that Jesus is the Christ, the lamb chosen before the foundation of the world to pay for our sins. Only by bowing our knee to him can anyone attain salvation from sin.

Another thing is that we should love God with our whole hearts and minds and love our neighbors.

 

[withwonderingawe]

That is not the Christian's understanding of the Holy Spirit. That must be specific to Mormonism

Say a person goes to a revival and the Holy Spirit is there, if this person refuses to come to the alter has he not rejected the Holy Spirit?

 

[ToBeLoved]

The Gift of the Holy Ghost given through a priesthood holder by the laying on of hands is a permanent gift. The Holy Spirit resides with us as a guide throughout our lives.

Again, Christians know through the Bible that the Holy Spirit is given to us by Christ, through the Father. We know the Holy Spirit cannot be given by man, only God.

John 14:16-18
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will beg in you. 18 “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

John 14:26
26 “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Say a person goes to a revival and the Holy Spirit is there, if this person refuses to come to the alter has he not rejected the Holy Spirit?

A person is given the Holy Spirit by Christ when one is saved.

The revival and altar is not what determines the Holy Spirit or when He is given to an individual.

The Holy Spirit is given by Christ during salvation. The Holy Spirit never leaves a person. The Holy Spirit is the seal of the New Covenant between that person and Christ. The Holy Spirit is also part of being an heir in Christ. The Holy Spirit is a part of our inheritance, which we are given now. The rest will be after death. It is an individual gift between each separate individual and God.

See post #858 for the Bible verses.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I said that speaking about God in generalities can easily wander into opinion. Note the word 'generalities'. That is why I said I will not discuss important concepts using generalities.

OK, let's talk specifics then. Which of God's commandments do you consider un-important, specifically?