• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

LDS Joseph Smith's Claim of an Apostasy is a Lie

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The HS can fall on anyone, any time. He has a body of pure spirit and it is his calling to enter into people and witness to their spirits that Jesus is the Christ and the Savior of the world.

The Mormons believe that there is a permanent gift of the HS that is given when people go through the process of believing in Christ because the HS told your spirit the he is the Christ, having faith in Christ, repenting of their sins, being baptized for the remission of sins, and then receiving the permanent gift of the HS by the laying on of hands by one that has the authority to give this gift. (Acts 2:37-38) (Acts 8:17 & Acts 19:2-6)
You contridict yourself. First you say the Holy Spirit can fall on anyone at anytime, but then you say that the Holy Spirit is given by the laying on of hands by one who has the authority to give this gift?

It can't be both brother. Make up your mind, please.

The Holy Spirit is given by Christ only.

In the early church, the apostles laid hands on people, yes. But it is not done that way anymore. People have God's Word now. The early church did not have that so their ability to perform miracles, like Christ did was part of the power that Christ bestowed upon them.
 
Upvote 0

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,452
1,989
Washington
✟254,689.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So you trust your feelings?
No feelings. I trust the Truth that is found in Jesus Christ, confirmed by the Scriptures we know as the Bible. Again, this is not about me.
 
Upvote 0

fatboys

Senior Veteran
Nov 18, 2003
9,231
280
72
✟68,575.00
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
No feelings. I trust the Truth that is found in Jesus Christ, confirmed by the Scriptures we know as the Bible. Again, this is not about me.
Then how did you sense darkness? In your mind? If you have read the Book of Mormon why did you read it?
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
72
✟132,365.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Marital Status
Married
You contridict yourself. First you say the Holy Spirit can fall on anyone at anytime, but then you say that the Holy Spirit is given by the laying on of hands by one who has the authority to give this gift?

It can't be both brother. Make up your mind, please.

The Holy Spirit is given by Christ only.

In the early church, the apostles laid hands on people, yes. But it is not done that way anymore. People have God's Word now. The early church did not have that so their ability to perform miracles, like Christ did was part of the power that Christ bestowed upon them.
I did not contradict myself. What happens is the HS can fall on anyone at any time. But this falling is only temparary until the person goes through the process that is explained in the bible. (Acts 2:37-38) Then, when that process is completed, someone with the authority to give the permanent gift of the HS lays his hands on their head and pronounces the gift of the HS. ( Acts 8:17 & Acts 19:2-6)

Let me see if I can understand this. You say that from the bible we learn that in the early church, the apostles laid their hands on people and gave them the gift of the HS. But it is not done today, because 250 years after the apostles we got the bible/The Word of God.

It is because the early church did not have the bible/Word of God, so the apostles were able to perform many miracles like Christ was part of the power that Christ bestowed upon them.

So according to you, today, we have the bible/Word of God (which amounts to about 1/1000 of the words that the apostles said) so we don't need living apostles and prophets and other leadership offices recorded in the bible, we do not need any revelations from Jesus, and we don't need miracles performed, and we don't need to be similar to the early church because all that has been completely done away, all because we have the bible. The bible tells us what the early church was like, but we ignore it because we have the bible.

Well, I hope you are satisfied with your church. Because in the Mormon church, we have the bible and we also have the BOM that tells us more of the Words of God. We also have other Words of God too. We have 12 apostles and all the other offices that are found in the Word of God, that perform miracles in our day and also recieve revelations from Jesus Christ to lead our church in this day and age. So the Mormons have all of the same things the bible says the early church had, as recorded in the bible, + we have the bible too.

You seem to be satisfied that you have the 1/1000 of the Words of God of the early church, and you are ignoring 1/2 of it anyway. The very thing that vaulted JS to the leadership of the religious world in the 1830's was because he was telling people that the Lord was bringing back the power and authority and the miracles and beauty of the early church. Thousands of people left their homes in the U.S and Canada and Great Britain to come and listen to a latter-day prophet of God that was receiving information from Jesus Christ, and performing miracles and pronouncing biblical doctrine just like the apostles of old. People wanted more than ever to be a part of the church as described in the bible. JS gave them that dream and more.

Don't be satisfied with a church that has little resemblence of the early apostolic church.
 
Upvote 0

tickingclocker

Well-Known Member
Mar 11, 2016
2,355
978
US
✟29,521.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I watched both movies and can tell you that there is some truth in what he was saying. Very little. I sat in amazement as he stretched and twisted our beliefs into something I would be repulsed at had I knew nothing about the church. There were out right lies that would have disqualified any of the rest that may have been true. It was really poorly done. What is sad is that you hang on every word and thought that any anti Mormon teaches about the church. Why? I have spent time reading what atheist have to say about religion in general and some of which they say is true. Very little but there is some truth in what they say. Why would in beleive what they say without finding out for myself if what they are saying about Christianity to be true? As for ex Mormons who say this reason or that reason is why they left usually is totally different than reality. Usually they did not all of a sudden read something and have a epiphany. Especially those who come to these websites. They beleive that their story must have validation I order to justify the real reason they left. Over the last forty years I have spoken with ex members it only takes a few probing questions to find out the reason for leaving. For many it is that they just don't want to live the gospel. Christianity is much easier to live with much less pressure to live their life. I mean a Mormon should go to church every week to renew his/her covenants they made with God just at baptism. Which is to take upon ourselves the name of Christ. To remember him always and to obey his commandments. Mainstream Christianity sounds a whole lot easier.

No, I do not "hang on every word" any "anti-Mormon" says. The fact that you know nothing about me beyond what I've said publicly proves you to be quite automatically mistaken.

Does mormonism teach that having "12 apostles", with 2 counselors and one "prophet" (technically making a total of 15 as they are also considered "apostles"), is one of the marks of a true church? Yes.
Does mormonism believe the bible to be the Word of God, but only if its "translated correctly"? Yes.
Does mormonism believe there was an "apostasy" within early Christianity, despite the Lord promising to keep His Bride, the Church, safe from the very gates of hell? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism preach polygamy (and the FLDS, etc.) is "God's will", and that its practiced in a third heaven among those exalted to godhood only? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism believe that black people were once known as marked with a curse because they were "unvaliant" by "remaining neutral" in some mythical, biblically unsupported war between Jesus and Lucifer over which would plan would rule the earth? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism practice baptism for the dead? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism teach that Jesus is the Jehovah of the OT? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism teach eternal progression, that humans can become gods and so are not eternal, unlike the Christian's God, who was never human but eternal Spirit with no end or beginning? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism teach that God the Father still has a physical body of flesh and bones? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism believe that there are three hierarchical heavens, with each having a multitude of levels within them? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism teach that only "sons of perdition", i.e., those who reject belief that JS is "God's prophet" and therefore have "given themselves over to Satan" along with the few truly wicked go? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism preach that one must be married on earth and produce children as one of the requirements of becoming a god? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism say that Michael the Archangel is the same person called Adam in the Garden of Eden? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism preach that all will be saved in some "unconditional" salvation, and those who fail to perform a laundry list of "ordinances" not listed in the bible anywhere are able to be "exalted", which essentially nullifies Jesus Christ's sacrifice? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism teach that Jesus paid for sin in the Garden of Gethsemane? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism teach that women are dependent upon their husbands "in good standing" to call them from the grave, or they will lie there until he does? Yes.

I could go on. So where are the twisted truths, the half-truths? Where are the "outright lies" I believe simply because "anti-Mormons" tells me facts about LDS/mormonism beliefs? I see no lies, and neither do you. I never heard one single thing against mormonism before making up my own mind to leave. Obviously, because in those days there was no "anti-Mormon" literature, ex-mo conventions, no internet to research the truth to be found! There was no "visiting" Christian churches to find out for yourself if they really "practiced the devil's arts" as I was "warned". You don't realize how much more freedom today within mormonism there is than previous generations have had to explore the truth. If you do, you haven't utilized much of it thus far, and that is your choice. But don't fault those who have and found out the truth about the lie of mormonism.

You can claim to have talked with a million ex-mo's, having made your own personal judgments about each and every one..... (all highly slanted in favor of your Mormon beliefs?) No doubt. Why I left is because mormonism is an empty, hollow LIE and nothing but. I didn't know the true "Gospel" before I left mormonism then accepted it after I found out what it really is--and always has been. So how could I have "lived it"---if I was never taught it in the first place?

But you are right. Christianity is much less burdensome and wearying. Why? Because of who Jesus Christ IS:
Come unto Me, all [ye] that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For My yoke [is] easy, and My burden is light. (Matt 11:28-30)

Jesus Christ certainly didn't lie! JS did, from scheming start to terrified finish.
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I did not contradict myself. What happens is the HS can fall on anyone at any time. But this falling is only temparary until the person goes through the process that is explained in the bible. (Acts 2:37-38) Then, when that process is completed, someone with the authority to give the permanent gift of the HS lays his hands on their head and pronounces the gift of the HS. ( Acts 8:17 & Acts 19:2-6)

Let me see if I can understand this. You say that from the bible we learn that in the early church, the apostles laid their hands on people and gave them the gift of the HS. But it is not done today, because 250 years after the apostles we got the bible/The Word of God.

It is because the early church did not have the bible/Word of God, so the apostles were able to perform many miracles like Christ was part of the power that Christ bestowed upon them.

So according to you, today, we have the bible/Word of God (which amounts to about 1/1000 of the words that the apostles said) so we don't need living apostles and prophets and other leadership offices recorded in the bible, we do not need any revelations from Jesus, and we don't need miracles performed, and we don't need to be similar to the early church because all that has been completely done away, all because we have the bible. The bible tells us what the early church was like, but we ignore it because we have the bible.

Well, I hope you are satisfied with your church. Because in the Mormon church, we have the bible and we also have the BOM that tells us more of the Words of God. We also have other Words of God too. We have 12 apostles and all the other offices that are found in the Word of God, that perform miracles in our day and also recieve revelations from Jesus Christ to lead our church in this day and age. So the Mormons have all of the same things the bible says the early church had, as recorded in the bible, + we have the bible too.

You seem to be satisfied that you have the 1/1000 of the Words of God of the early church, and you are ignoring 1/2 of it anyway. The very thing that vaulted JS to the leadership of the religious world in the 1830's was because he was telling people that the Lord was bringing back the power and authority and the miracles and beauty of the early church. Thousands of people left their homes in the U.S and Canada and Great Britain to come and listen to a latter-day prophet of God that was receiving information from Jesus Christ, and performing miracles and pronouncing biblical doctrine just like the apostles of old. People wanted more than ever to be a part of the church as described in the bible. JS gave them that dream and more.

Don't be satisfied with a church that has little resemblence of the early apostolic church.
Whatever. That's how relevant doctrine is that changes constantly.

...
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
72
✟132,365.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Marital Status
Married
No, I do not "hang on every word" any "anti-Mormon" says. The fact that you know nothing about me beyond what I've said publicly proves you to be quite automatically mistaken.

Does mormonism teach that having "12 apostles", with 2 counselors and one "prophet" (technically making a total of 15 as they are also considered "apostles"), is one of the marks of a true church? Yes.
Does mormonism believe the bible to be the Word of God, but only if its "translated correctly"? Yes.
Does mormonism believe there was an "apostasy" within early Christianity, despite the Lord promising to keep His Bride, the Church, safe from the very gates of hell? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism preach polygamy (and the FLDS, etc.) is "God's will", and that its practiced in a third heaven among those exalted to godhood only? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism believe that black people were once known as marked with a curse because they were "unvaliant" by "remaining neutral" in some mythical, biblically unsupported war between Jesus and Lucifer over which would plan would rule the earth? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism practice baptism for the dead? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism teach that Jesus is the Jehovah of the OT? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism teach eternal progression, that humans can become gods and so are not eternal, unlike the Christian's God, who was never human but eternal Spirit with no end or beginning? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism teach that God the Father still has a physical body of flesh and bones? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism believe that there are three hierarchical heavens, with each having a multitude of levels within them? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism teach that only "sons of perdition", i.e., those who reject belief that JS is "God's prophet" and therefore have "given themselves over to Satan" along with the few truly wicked go? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism preach that one must be married on earth and produce children as one of the requirements of becoming a god? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism say that Michael the Archangel is the same person called Adam in the Garden of Eden? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism preach that all will be saved in some "unconditional" salvation, and those who fail to perform a laundry list of "ordinances" not listed in the bible anywhere are able to be "exalted", which essentially nullifies Jesus Christ's sacrifice? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism teach that Jesus paid for sin in the Garden of Gethsemane? Yes.
Does LDS mormonism teach that women are dependent upon their husbands "in good standing" to call them from the grave, or they will lie there until he does? Yes.

I could go on. So where are the twisted truths, the half-truths? Where are the "outright lies" I believe simply because "anti-Mormons" tells me facts about LDS/mormonism beliefs? I see no lies, and neither do you. I never heard one single thing against mormonism before making up my own mind to leave. Obviously, because in those days there was no "anti-Mormon" literature, ex-mo conventions, no internet to research the truth to be found! There was no "visiting" Christian churches to find out for yourself if they really "practiced the devil's arts" as I was "warned". You don't realize how much more freedom today within mormonism there is than previous generations have had to explore the truth. If you do, you haven't utilized much of it thus far, and that is your choice. But don't fault those who have and found out the truth about the lie of mormonism.

You can claim to have talked with a million ex-mo's, having made your own personal judgments about each and every one..... (all highly slanted in favor of your Mormon beliefs?) No doubt. Why I left is because mormonism is an empty, hollow LIE and nothing but. I didn't know the true "Gospel" before I left mormonism then accepted it after I found out what it really is--and always has been. So how could I have "lived it"---if I was never taught it in the first place?

But you are right. Christianity is much less burdensome and wearying. Why? Because of who Jesus Christ IS:
Come unto Me, all [ye] that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For My yoke [is] easy, and My burden is light. (Matt 11:28-30)

Jesus Christ certainly didn't lie! JS did, from scheming start to terrified finish.
First of all, to say "LDS mormonism" is redundant, say LDS or Mormonism and people will understand.

Second, I'm sure you believe we give twisted truths, and half truths, and out right lies, I would not think you would be caught dead twisting the truth or giving half truths, or out right lying, but you have in your silly list of Mormon beliefs. You need to update your list and tell the truth about what we believe.

Third, here is a scripture:
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

How do you reconcile this scripture with your salvation theology?
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
72
✟132,365.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Whatever. That's how relevant doctrine is that changes constantly.

...
Are you sure you want to stick with that story you told us? You would give up the living apostles and prophets and the other officers of the church, along with miracles that they performed, and the revelation that they received from Jesus and their strong personal testimonies delivered in person so that you can have the bible, which has 1/1000 of the Words of God through his apostles?

Does that sound like a logical or spiritual or biblical position to take?
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Are you sure you want to stick with that story you told us? You would give up the living apostles and prophets and the other officers of the church, along with miracles that they performed, and the revelation that they received from Jesus and their strong personal testimonies delivered in person so that you can have the bible, which has 1/1000 of the Words of God through his apostles?

Does that sound like a logical or spiritual or biblical position to take?
Read post #827 again and see what I responded to.
 
Upvote 0

withwonderingawe

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2015
3,592
510
72
Salem Ut
✟184,049.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I'm going to pull a few of these out;

Does LDS mormonism teach that Jesus is the Jehovah of the OT? Yes.

Don't all Christians believe Yahweh is Jesus?

Does LDS mormonism teach eternal progression, that humans can become gods and so are not eternal, unlike the Christian's God, who was never human but eternal Spirit with no end or beginning? Yes.

That's shoving a number of beliefs all together and then twisting them around into something we don't believe. You are taking your belief in 'something from nothing' and placing it over the top of our understanding and coming up with the wrong answer. You have to add in there D&C 93

29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.....
33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

We believe yes the spirit is eternal and the spirit of man is eternal like the Father's spirit is. Our eternal spirit has taken on flesh as our Father's eternal spirit did before us. There is nothing wrong with this doctrine after all Yahweh took on flesh.

Does LDS mormonism teach that only "sons of perdition", i.e., those who reject belief that JS is "God's prophet" and therefore have "given themselves over to Satan" along with the few truly wicked go? Yes.

What? Start over on that one.

Does LDS mormonism preach that all will be saved in some "unconditional" salvation, and those who fail to perform a laundry list of "ordinances" not listed in the bible anywhere are able to be "exalted", which essentially nullifies Jesus Christ's sacrifice? Yes.

Mormons believe we could do all the ordinances over and over again but if we don't learn Christ like love we will never be exalted. On the other hand I can learn Christ like love and never preform one ordinance and be exalted.

Does LDS mormonism teach that women are dependent upon their husbands "in good standing" to call them from the grave, or they will lie there until he does? Yes.

What? That's an odd twist.
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
What? That's an odd twist.
Really? Your church teaches that all the time. That's why the Temple Ceremony a woman dedicates herself to her husband. Don't see any women in the Melchezedek priesthood? A woman spends eternity sharing her husband and being pregnant for all eternity.

I'll take Christianity anyday. It'd be hell to watch my man with 1,000
's of others in polygamy. Jesus wouldn't do that to His Children, but maybe He will let you do that to yourselves.
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Mormons believe we could do all the ordinances over and over again but if we don't learn Christ like love we will never be exalted. On the other hand I can learn Christ like love and never preform one ordinance and be exalted.
Jesus never asked any of His Children to do ordinances. He wants you to love Him. You want to love 'like Christ', you don't 'love Christ'. It shows in every post. You missed it all. You walked right past it.

Paul talked about 'milk and meat' find out what that is all about. Google is your friend.
 
Upvote 0

Jane_Doe

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2015
6,658
1,042
116
✟107,821.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Really? Your church teaches that all the time.
That's why the Temple Ceremony a woman dedicates herself to her husband. Don't see any women in the Melchezedek priesthood? A woman spends eternity sharing her husband and being pregnant for all eternity.

False statements all around.
 
Upvote 0

withwonderingawe

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2015
3,592
510
72
Salem Ut
✟184,049.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Really? Your church teaches that all the time. That's why the Temple Ceremony a woman dedicates herself to her husband. Don't see any women in the Melchezedek priesthood? A woman spends eternity sharing her husband and being pregnant for all eternity.

I'll take Christianity anyday. It'd be hell to watch my man with 1,000
's of others in polygamy. Jesus wouldn't do that to His Children, but maybe He will let you do that to yourselves.


Well you don't have to worry about it because you are choosing not to go to the Celestial kingdom anyway.
 
Upvote 0

Ironhold

Member
Feb 14, 2014
7,625
1,467
✟209,507.00
Faith
Marital Status
Single
No, I do not "hang on every word" any "anti-Mormon" says. The fact that you know nothing about me beyond what I've said publicly proves you to be quite automatically mistaken.

Your remarks are in red.

Does mormonism believe there was an "apostasy" within early Christianity, despite the Lord promising to keep His Bride, the Church, safe from the very gates of hell? Yes.

Even Dante recognized that the "gates of Hell" represented not "Satan's dominion over the truth" but "Satan's dominion over the wicked and dead".

In that sense, the gates have not prevailed.

And yes, I've plowed through "The Divine Comedy". Have you?

Does LDS mormonism preach polygamy (and the FLDS, etc.) is "God's will", and that its practiced in a third heaven among those exalted to godhood only? Yes.

Citation?

Does LDS mormonism believe that black people were once known as marked with a curse because they were "unvaliant" by "remaining neutral" in some mythical, biblically unsupported war between Jesus and Lucifer over which would plan would rule the earth? Yes.

Not only was this not 100% official, it was repudiated almost 40 years ago.

Does LDS mormonism teach that only "sons of perdition", i.e., those who reject belief that JS is "God's prophet" and therefore have "given themselves over to Satan" along with the few truly wicked go? Yes.

No, a "son of perdition" is someone who is such an absolute jerk about things that they basically had to put some serious effort into getting their slot in Hell.

We're talking "They literally dropped their pants in the Vatican and relieved themselves on the rug" kind of effort.

Does LDS mormonism preach that one must be married on earth and produce children as one of the requirements of becoming a god? Yes.

...But if a person does not accomplish this through no fault of their own then it won't be held against them.

Does LDS mormonism preach that all will be saved in some "unconditional" salvation, and those who fail to perform a laundry list of "ordinances" not listed in the bible anywhere are able to be "exalted", which essentially nullifies Jesus Christ's sacrifice? Yes.

It would only be nullified if there was no mechanism for everyone to have a shot at finishing things.

Does LDS mormonism teach that women are dependent upon their husbands "in good standing" to call them from the grave, or they will lie there until he does? Yes.

While men can call forth their wives, this is more of a formality than anything else. You see, if one spouse was a jerk in life, the other spouse can tell them to stuff it. Once the jerk spouse is refused, the not-jerk spouse is given the option to find someone who actually merits them.

I see no lies, and neither do you.

Gee, I did...
 
Upvote 0

withwonderingawe

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2015
3,592
510
72
Salem Ut
✟184,049.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Jesus never asked any of His Children to do ordinances. He wants you to love Him. You want to love 'like Christ', you don't 'love Christ'. It shows in every post. You missed it all. You walked right past it.

Paul talked about 'milk and meat' find out what that is all about. Google is your friend.

Matt 28
19 ¶Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I havecommanded you

Mark 14
22 ¶And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

John 13
4 He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
5 After that he poureth water into a basin, and began towash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded
7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.
12 So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?

Be nice if you would read the Bible instead of just guess about what's in there.
 
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
36,180
6,767
Midwest
✟127,301.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
tickingclocker, they've declared all out war because they're trying to intimidate us. No problem. The truth will triumph! I was answering your post point by point but it disappeared into cyberspace. That's no problem either because I can do it over tomorrow. I've been innoculated so they can't intimidate me.

For tonight, I'll help you out on one point:

Does LDS mormonism teach eternal progression, that humans can become gods and so are not eternal, unlike the Christian's God, who was never human but eternal Spirit with no end or beginning? Yes.

All intelligences are eternal. They were never created, only organized.

“Man is a god in embryo and has in him the seeds of godhood, and he can, if he will, rise to great heights.”
Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Spencer W. Kimball, (2006)

DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS 132
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS 88
107 And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him.
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Well you don't have to worry about it because you are choosing not to go to the Celestial kingdom anyway.

And I'm going to be praising my Lord that I won't. That's not my idea of heaven.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Upvote 0