LDS Joseph Smith's Claim of an Apostasy is a Lie

[ArmenianJohn]

Yes, all this points to the priesthood being given to all believers, not it done away with as you claimed.

First she said, "the priesthood was done away with completely. Not open to all men---done away with." Immediately after, she said, "We are all priests according to scripture."

When you look at what she said in its context it seems clear (to me, anyway) that what she is saying is that the priesthood as it was for the Jews was done away with when the New Covenant opened it up so that all believers have a priesthood and can go directly to Christ. This is pretty universally accepted among Christians. Even churches like mine or Roman Catholic believe in a priesthood of all the faithful/believers despite also having clergy that are called priests.

Another thing that is universal among Christians is that there is no Aaronic or Melchizidek priesthood, and especially that masonic rituals have no place in any Christian church. Joseph Smith's "priesthoods" are false; he stole rituals from Masonry and applied esoteric Biblical terms to create new offices/roles for his religion. It is a lot of show with no substance (much like Freemasonry itself). It is also occultic just like Freemasonry.

 

[Jane_Doe]

The priesthood was done away with, Jesus alone is our High Priest--we are all called priests

Again you're contradicting yourself. If there was no priesthood, then the total count of priests nowadays should be 0. If all believers are priests, then priests number in 2,000,000,000+.

If you want to argue no Levitical priests nowadays, but another type of priest, then you should argue that-- not that there are no priests in totality.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Yes, all this points to the priesthood being given to all believers, not it done away with as you claimed.

There is no reason for the priesthood if all are of the priesthood. I'm sure that's what she meant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ToBeLoved]

Again you're contradicting yourself. If there was no priesthood, then the total count of priests nowadays should be 0. If all believers are priests, then priests number in 2,000,000,000+.

If you want to argue no Levitical priests nowadays, but another type of priest, then you should argue that-- not that there are no priests in totality.

She said their was no priesthood.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mmksparbud]

There is no priesthood!!! Period!! We are called priests---that is every believer is called a priest--every believer is also called a King!!!! Why are you not arguing about Kings??? Why do you not have kings??? I've asked and asked but you all just ignore that and keep on with the priests---no priesthood---this is not rocket science! The priesthood was done away with. It is in black and white and all over the book of Hebrews, We are all, as individuals referred to as priest, just as we are referred to as the temples of God----and we are referred to us Kings---so again-----where are your kings??? Why do you not have a KING???---but it doesn't say that there is A king, but that we are all KINGS, as we are all priests----

 

[Ironhold]

What's your point here? He is providing a brief bio of himself - how is that something wrong?

The point is that we, not in some far-off country but here in America, are dealing with the kinds of persecution you fantasize about experiencing.

Rather than owning up to the fact that some legitimately evil things are being said and taught in God's name and that people are getting paid for doing it, you're trying to dodge and deflect.

None of that shows the light of Christ.

 

[Jane_Doe]

What's your point here? He is providing a brief bio of himself - how is that something wrong?

Is this individual, whom is a pastor and claims to be a born-again Christian, yet makes his career by by publishing a lies (see post 533 for references) acting in a way becoming an disciple of Christ? Let alone a leader?

(Yes, I realize that we never truly know we can truly know, only Christ can know. But I'm just asking your best estimate).

 

[Jane_Doe]

There is no priesthood!!! Period!! We are called priests

I'm sorry, but I don't understand how a person can claim that there are no priests, and yet cite a Biblical verse which clearly shows that there are priests.

Why are you not arguing about Kings???

Because I'm staying on one topic.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand how a person can claim that there are no priests, and yet cite a Biblical verse which clearly shows that there are priests.

There are no priests like the way the descendants of Aaron were priests, with functions, rites, orders, etc who served a specific role within ancient Judaism.

The entire Church is God's Temple, and every Christian is a priest in that he or she, being a baptized member of the body of Christ has access to God in His Temple--His Church. A Temple made without hands, a Temple made not of stone. Our priestly function is in offer the sacrifice of praise, when we come together and celebrate and worship God we receive the gifts of God--His Word and Sacraments--and we in response offer thanksgiving, praise, and humble obedience through our offerings of song, prayer, and good works.

A Christian is a priest because she, by access to God through His Son, comes before God and into the figurative Holy of Holies every time she prays, every time she gathers with the Faithful to offer prayers, hymns, and thanksgiving in the context of gathered Christian worship (the liturgy), etc.

It is not a formal priesthood, but an informal one; all who belong to Christ are kings and priests because they are "seated with Christ Jesus in heavenly places" and offer the sacrifice of praise through worship and good works.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ToBeLoved]

The point is that we, not in some far-off country but here in America, are dealing with the kinds of persecution you fantasize about experiencing.

Rather than owning up to the fact that some legitimately evil things are being said and taught in God's name and that people are getting paid for doing it, you're trying to dodge and deflect.

None of that shows the light of Christ.

You have not shown or proven that you are persecuted any more than the average person of any faith. Most Mormons live in Utah or Idaho where they control things, so I do not think that you have it any worse than anyone else.

Whenever I hear you talk about persecution it is in reference to the frontier days, but history has shown that many massecure's and problems were started by the Mormon's themselves.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Is this individual, whom is a pastor and claims to be a born-again Christian, yet makes his career by by publishing a lies (see post 533 for references) acting in a way becoming an disciple of Christ? Let alone a leader?

(Yes, I realize that we never truly know we can truly know, only Christ can know. But I'm just asking your best estimate).

Faith and love cannot be estimated. Only Jesus knows one's heart. We shouldn't even try. We are told not to.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Is this individual, whom is a pastor and claims to be a born-again Christian, yet makes his career by by publishing a lies (see post 533 for references) acting in a way becoming an disciple of Christ? Let alone a leader?

(Yes, I realize that we never truly know we can truly know, only Christ can know. But I'm just asking your best estimate).

I think he is. He is exposing what he believes to be false teaching that lead people away from the Gospel; in doing so, he is presenting the true Gospel, which is what Christians should be doing.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

The point is that we, not in some far-off country but here in America, are dealing with the kinds of persecution you fantasize about experiencing.

1. What persecution are you experiencing from this person? (Because I don't see any)
2. Why are you saying that I "fantasize about experiencing" any persecution when I have said no such thing?

Rather than owning up to the fact that some legitimately evil things are being said and taught in God's name and that people are getting paid for doing it, you're trying to dodge and deflect.

None of that shows the light of Christ.

I'd be happy to own up to it but I don't see where providing a bio is "legitimately evil"; nor do I see being critical of mormonism and exposing the truth about it is "legitimately evil", in fact I think it's good to expose it.

Nothing shows the light of Christ more than to expose false teachings. Christ Himself did this against the Pharisees in His day.

And what have I dodged or deflected?

 

[mmksparbud]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand how a person can claim that there are no priests, and yet cite a Biblical verse which clearly shows that there are priests.


Because I'm staying on one topic.

It is the topic----You're comprehension of English seems to have disappeared. What part of we are called kings but we are not kings can you not comprehend??? It is the same thing. It is in the same verse---that is just a silly dodge and quite ridiculous. Is it you're hope that I will just throw my arms up in disgust and give up saying the obvious????

 

[Jane_Doe]

There are no priests like the way the descendants of Aaron were priests, with functions, rites, orders, etc who served a specific role within ancient Judaism.

The entire Church is God's Temple, and every Christian is a priest in that he or she, being a baptized member of the body of Christ has access to God in His Temple--His Church. A Temple made without hands, a Temple made not of stone. Our priestly function is in offer the sacrifice of praise, when we come together and celebrate and worship God we receive the gifts of God--His Word and Sacraments--and we in response offer thanksgiving, praise, and humble obedience through our offerings of song, prayer, and good works.

A Christian is a priest because she, by access to God through His Son, comes before God and into the figurative Holy of Holies every time she prays, every time she gathers with the Faithful to offer prayers, hymns, and thanksgiving in the context of gathered Christian worship (the liturgy), etc.

It is not a formal priesthood, but an informal one; all who belong to Christ are kings and priests because they are "seated with Christ Jesus in heavenly places" and offer the sacrifice of praise through worship and good works.

-CryptoLutheran

I can see the logic beyond your case here and respect it. But this is not the same case that Mmksparbud is arguing (that there are no priesthood at all). I asked her to clarify this is post #602, and she responded in 605.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Most Mormons live in Utah or Idaho

Most = ~20%???

 

[Jane_Doe]

I think he is. He is exposing what he believes to be false teaching that lead people away from the Gospel; in doing so, he is presenting the true Gospel, which is what Christians should be doing.

He is "exposing" is lying. Do you approve of this?

Is lying "presenting the true Gospel, which is what Christians should be doing"?

 

[Jane_Doe]

It is the topic----You're comprehension of English seems to have disappeared. What part of we are called kings but we are not kings can you not comprehend??? It is the same thing. It is in the same verse---that is just a silly dodge and quite ridiculous. Is it you're hope that I will just throw my arms up in disgust and give up saying the obvious????

Mmksparbud, can you please tell me how you are translating a verse which says "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father" (Rev_1:6) to mean that there are zero priests? Paul is CLEARLY contradicting the point you are trying to make.

 

[Ironhold]

I think he is. He is exposing what he believes to be false teaching that lead people away from the Gospel; in doing so, he is presenting the true Gospel, which is what Christians should be doing.

Thing is, he's telling lies to his audience.

Even non-Mormons have called him out for spreading lies and hate speech.

You keep missing that.

 

[Ironhold]

1. What persecution are you experiencing from this person? (Because I don't see any)

So telling lies about people and inspiring others to hate them is just kosher?

2. Why are you saying that I "fantasize about experiencing" any persecution when I have said no such thing?

Well, you were so quick to drop the bit about what happens elsewhere?

I'd be happy to own up to it but I don't see where providing a bio is "legitimately evil"; nor do I see being critical of mormonism and exposing the truth about it is "legitimately evil", in fact I think it's good to expose it.

The guy is lying.

Even the National Council of Christians & Jews has told him (Decker) to shut up and get over himself.

And what have I dodged or deflected?

You've dodged the fact that your own side is guilty of some pretty heinous things, and that you'll have no chance of success until you own up to it.