Is God a liar?

[BobRyan]

You are amazed by things I didn't say. Amazing. I've watched natural selection
"choose" the slowest ducklings in a pond and leave only the "correct"
size family....going from 12 to 2 ducklings in one afternoon.

Far be it from me to claim that such micro trivia proves that a bacteria will one day evolve into a eukaryote over time - given a talented enough bacteria and a long and talented enough period of time - filled with just-so stories that are "easy enough to tell - but they are not science".

Such overblown claim would be the sort of religion I do not choose as a Christian.

 

[SkyWriting]

That would be micro-evolution.

All evolution occurs under stress conditions.

 

[BobRyan]

Darwin admits to the blantantly obvious fact that faith in evolutionism demands the downward march to evolutionism.

And it begins with adopting "Bible is wrong -- evolutionism is right" doctrines.

1. The overwhelming majority of God-believing evolutionists prove Darwin wrong .

You yourself prove Darwin's claim.

. Let's face it. Genesis 1 is simply not compatible with what we know from science.

Let's compare that "Bible is wrong" doctrine - to the way Darwin said it.

Darwin -
Whilst on board the Beagle I was quite orthodox, and remember being heartily laughed at by several of the officers (though themselves orthodox) for quoting the Bible as an unanswerable authority on some point of morality. I suppose it was the novelty of the argument that amused thee.

But I had gradually come by this time, i.e. 1836 to 1839, to see that the Old Testament was no more to be trusted than the sacred books of the Hindus….

By further reflecting… that the more we know of the fixed laws of nature the more incredible do miracle become, - that the men of the time were ignorant and credulous to a degree almost incomprehensible to us,- that the Gospels cannot be proved to have been written simultaneously with the events,- that they differ in many important details…

I gradually came to disbelieve in Christianity as a divine revelation…. But I was very unwilling to give up my belief; I feel sure of this, for I can well remember often and often inventing day-dreams of old letters between distinguished Romans… which confirmed in the most striking manner all that was written in the Gospels. But I found it more and more difficult, with free scope given to my imagination, to invent evidence which would suffice to convince me. Thus disbelief crept over me at a very slow rate but was at last complete. The rate was so slow that I felt no distress, and have never doubted even for a single second that my conclusion was correct.

Bible believing Christians are not in a conflict-of-interest on this point because they freely reject blind-faith-evolutionism - so no need to corrupt the text of the Bible.

Atheists art not in a conflict-of-interest on this point for they freely reject that Bible as being in error - so then for them as well no need to corrupt the Bible to "make it fit" evolutionism.

So because "Bible bending" was not an option for Darwin - when his blind faith in evolutionism lead him to declare the Bible 'wrong' and evolutionism 'right' - he logically switched from the Bible to evolutionism as his "source of truth".

 

[SkyWriting]

Far be it from me to claim that such micro trivia proves that a bacteria will one day evolve into a eukaryote over time - given a talented enough bacteria and a long and talented enough period of time - filled with just-so stories that are "easy enough to tell - but they are not science". Such overblown claim would be the sort of religion I do not choose as a Christian.

Science provides no "proof" of anything.
If an event cannot be repeated, then it
cannot be examined by the scientific
method. Even then, it would "prove"
nothing, even if it could be repeated.

 

[Hieronymus]

All evolution occurs under stress conditions.

Only micro-evolution occurs, ever.
It's a matter of data implementation and the absence of a mechanism to write new data.

 

[Aman777]

No, sorry...

Then refute my view Scripturally. No one else can.

 

[Aman777]

In Genesis 1 "Let there be light." can hardly refer to God, for God didn't speak Himself into existence.

Jesus/YHWH is the incarnation of the invisible Spirit of God. Without Him was not anything made which was made. Amen?

 

[Aman777]

Many times God is referred to as Light.
I thought you were referring to the light in Genesis 1:3.
God spoke the light in Genesis 1:3 into existence, this is creation.
God didn't create Himself in Genesis 1:3 would be my point.

Is Jesus God? Of course He is. WHEN did He come into the physical world?

 

[Hieronymus]

Then refute my view Scripturally. No one else can.

Scripture doesn't say what you said.

 

[Aman777]

"also made" does not include the stars in the "TWO" Lights made on day 4.,

The point remains. Only Two lights made on day 4.

Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: He made the stars also.

God made the Sun to rule the day and the Moon to rule the night. He also made the Stars. This was some 560 Million - 1 Billion years AFTER the Big Bang according to WMAP Satellite which discovered this last year. God told us this 3k years ago. Amen?

 

[Hieronymus]

Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: He made the stars also.

God made the Sun to rule the day and the Moon to rule the night. He also made the Stars. This was some 560 Million - 1 Billion years AFTER the Big Bang according to WMAP Satellite which discovered this last year. God told us this 3k years ago. Amen?

The Big Bang is a naturalsitic model with many many problems of its own.
No reason for a Bible believer to subscribe to it.

 

[Aman777]

The Big Bang is a naturalsitic model with many many problems of its own.
No reason for a Bible believer to subscribe to it.

Please explain WHY God made the first firmament, which He called Heaven, on the 2nd Day Gen 1:8 and other HeavenS (plural) on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4

Could it be because He totally destroyed Adam's world? ll Peter 3:6 This leaves our 2nd firmament/Cosmos and the 3rd Heaven of ll Cor 12:2. Amen?

 

[Aman777]

Scripture doesn't say what you said.

Sure it does. Can you refute the Scripture I posted? I use the KJV.

Day 1- God creates air, dust and water comes from the air/heaven Gen 1:1
Jesus/YHWH comes into the physical world Gen 1:3
Day 2- Adam's firmament/Heaven is made Gen 1:8
Day 3- Jesus (Lord God) makes other Heavens Gen 2:4 and Adam Gen 2:7
Day 4- The first Stars of our Cosmos light up Gen 1:16
Day 5- God creates "every living creature" from water Gen 1:21
Day 6- Jesus makes Eve Gen 3:22 Adam and Eve are "created in God's Image" or born again Spiritually in Christ Gen 1:27 and Gen 5:1-2

 

[Hieronymus]

Please explain WHY God made the first firmament, which He called Heaven,

I think nobody knows for sure, but Genesis 1:1 and on i.m.o. implies that time, space (possibly the quantum matrix) and matter were created, and later fotons (light).
The matter was formless to start with.
I'm really not sure about the waters.
But water is a very important matter for life.

All of Creation was done in 6 days, every day had an evening and a morning, and they still do.
The 6 days are confirmed many times in Scripture, Christ also confirmed it.

So there's no gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

Genesis 2:8-25 focusses on the 6th day, in particular on the Garden and on the formation of Eve.

It's a fascinating piece of history that nobody seems to fully understand.

 

[Hieronymus]

Is Jesus God? Of course He is. WHEN did He come into the physical world?

He MADE the physical world.
John 1:1-3

 

[Aman777]

good idea to present the case "scripturally"

. And we see that "SIX DAYS you shall labor...for IN SIX days the LORD created the heavens and the earth - and rested the 7th day"

This is irrefutable - and the failed attempts to marry the Bible to evolutionism do not survive this "Bible detail"

Sure it does, since the 6th Day, the Day of Salvation, continues today. God is STILL creating Adam (Heb-mankind) in His Image, which is in Christ Spiritually. Jesus is the Image of the invisible Spirit of God.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

*** Gen 2 -
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Notice the "all" that I bolded. Christians are inhabitants or hosts of Heaven and this verse shows that ALL of them, including future ones, are present in Heaven WHEN God rests (Heb-Sabbath-Ceases) from ALL of His work of Creating. Since it takes the AGREEMENT of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit to CREATE a New creature in Christ Gen 1:26 and John 14:16, God is STILL working today. God's Rest from ALL of His work is future.

*** Ex 20 - legal code (not poetry - not symbolism)
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Amen. God's Days continue until the prophecy of Gen 1:28-31 is fulfilled.

*** this is a bible detail that cannot be ignored when admitting that the Bible describes a real - literal "six days you shall labor...for in six days the Lord made" 7 day week for creation that maps exactly to the week of Exodus 20.

Irrefutable.

I look forward to keeping the 7th Day Holy. Do you think that every 7th Day on Planet Earth is Holy? Holy is perfect and will NOT be realized until we are in Heaven and death is destroyed. 1Co 15:26 Today, some 20k children will die before the age of 5. Is this Holy? Of course not. Amen?

 

[Aman777]

1. The overwhelming majority of God-believing evolutionists prove Darwin wrong on that account.

2. The "Bible is wrong" is only true if you take Genesis LITERALLY, which I don't. I know that Genesis 1 is of the genre of myth, which means it is not historical, but teaches eternal truths. So I don't look to Genesis 1 for scientific facts, but for those eternal truths.

Sorry, but ONLY the people of the last days can understand Genesis.

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Genesis One AGREES in every way with every discovery of Science and History.

 

[Aman777]

I think nobody knows for sure, but Genesis 1:1 and on i.m.o. implies that time, space (possibly the quantum matrix) and matter were created, and later fotons (light).
The matter was formless to start with.
I'm really not sure about the waters.
But water is a very important matter for life.

Jesus tells us that the Holy Spirit will lead us into ALL Truth. Jhn 16:13 This is happening today IF you have the proper view of Genesis 1.

*** All of Creation was done in 6 days, every day had an evening and a morning, and they still do.

Amen. What I love is that Christians have been telling the story of the 6 Day Creation for thousands of years by FAITH. What mankind is discovering TODAY confirms this Truth. At the end of the present 6th Day, ALL creatures will become Vegetarians. Gen 1:30 This happens AFTER Jesus returns to rule and reign on Planet Earth. Isa 11:7

*** The 6 days are confirmed many times in Scripture, Christ also confirmed it.

Amen. God is STILL creating mankind (Adam)Spiritually today, at the end of the Day of Salvation, the 6th Day. Gen 1:27

**** So there's no gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

Amen. There is NO gap between Gen 1:1 and 1:2.

*** Genesis 2:8-25 focusses on the 6th day, in particular on the Garden and on the formation of Eve.

It's a fascinating piece of history that nobody seems to fully understand.

I agree that ancient men had another understanding. It's God's way to insure that ONLY by Faith could they come to know God. In these last days, God will pour out His Spirit of Truth to ALL people. Joe 2:28 Amen?

 

[Aman777]

He MADE the physical world.
John 1:1-3

Amen. YHWH/Jesus took the heaven (air) earth (ground) and the water which came from the air and made EVERYTHING which exists in physical form. Jesus is the ONLY God ever formed physically and the only God who will ever be formed physically, Isa 43:10 and don't confuse me with JWs. Amen?

 

[Hieronymus]

Amen. YHWH/Jesus took the heaven (air) earth (ground) and the water which came from the air and made EVERYTHING which exists in physical form. Jesus is the ONLY God ever formed physically and the only God who will ever be formed physically, Isa 43:10 and don't confuse me with JWs. Amen?

God in the OT is physical on many occasions also.
In Isaiah 43:10 i think it's about the Son of man, Jesus of Nazareth.
I don't understand the identity of God.
But that's okay with me.