A few questions for atheists...

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Question 4: After evolving for hundreds of millions of years, why does a life form start to degenerate just after birth only to destroy itself in a short period of time?

You'll have to be more specific - which particular life form did you have in mind?

 

[klutedavid]

What forms the basis of organic chemistry?
What are organic compounds made of?

Organic chemistry is irrelevant in a sterile environment. Once the sterilization event has occurred
the environment is sterile regardless of the chemical composition of the environment.

 

[Gene2memE]

Organic chemistry is irrelevant in a sterile environment. Once the sterilization event has occurred
the environment is sterile regardless of the chemical composition of the environment.

You didn't answer the questions.

What forms the basis of organic chemistry?
What are organic compounds made of?

Once you answer the questions, then we can start talking about life and sterile environments.

 

[Cearbhall]

Question 1: Do you believe that there was a chance merging of organic materials necessary at just the right time, circumstance, and environment to produce a living entity?

Yes. And I'll admit that this is a strange question to me. It's a bit like saying "Look at this rock. Do you believe it formed?" Well, yes. I'm looking at it right now. Clearly the rock formed at some point. Likewise, there was a time when organisms did not exist, and now they do, so obviously they were formed through a process. We don't fully understand that process yet, but that doesn't change the fact that this process must have happened.

So far we've got two yes's and a lot of people ignoring the thread. I was hoping for more participation.

It's a bit odd to say something like this 90 minutes after you start a thread. What makes you think anyone was ignoring it?

 

[[serious]]

Here's the last question. It's a "why" question so I won't be surprised to see a variety of answers. It's also obviously an essay question, so knock yourselves out. Thanks.

Question 4: After evolving for hundreds of millions of years, why does a life form start to degenerate just after birth only to destroy itself in a short period of time?

That answer is easy, it doesn't. Plenty of organisms don't undergo senescence like we do (aging)

No species tends to die of old age before it's normal reproductive cycle (barring, of course, species with high birth mortality which skews the average down)

 

[Abraxos]

Miller and Urey set out to prove that complex organic molecules could emerge from simple chemicals in an environment like that of the early Earth. The experiment was a stunning success.

Amino acids that are ingredients of a protein were what was produced out of that experiment. And you need a ribosome to create a protein. The 20 amino acids that are found within proteins convey a vast array of chemical versatility. Tertiary Structure of a protein. The precise amino acid content, and the sequence of those amino acids, of a specific protein, is determined by the sequence of the bases in the gene that encodes that protein.
http://www.biology.arizona.edu/biochemistry/problem_sets/aa/aa.html

In laymans, it's like through a natural process, this muck creates a brink. And the cultists will claim that this will explain how we got the white house. In real life, you would require a number of things to create the white house; like workers, a blueprint, a sequence on where those brinks are supposed to go, in what order and at which time.

40 years after the experiment: The problem of the origin of life has turned out to be much more difficult than I, and most other people, envisioned. - Stanley Miller.

Unfortunately, Miller-type experiments have not progressed much further than their original proto-type, leaving us with a sour aftertaste from the primordial soup. - Massimo Pigliucci

It was certainly a stunning success at being a failure.

The problem is that none of the cells you are pointing to are said to be the product of abiogenesis.

The simplest cell are unicellular organisms, which are an information, processing and replicating system of astonishing complexity. Even Dawkins admits that the single cell is the simplest form of life in the God Delusion. I guess the next simpleton cell in your imagination would be a rock.

Quick question: All living things consist of proteins. The code for each protein is contained in the DNA/RNA system. However, proteins are required in order to manufacture DNA. So which came first? Proteins or DNA?

 

[klutedavid]

You didn't answer the questions.

What forms the basis of organic chemistry?
What are organic compounds made of?

Once you answer the questions, then we can start talking about life and sterile environments.

Hello Gene2memE.

Methinks the answer is carbon.

Organic compounds therefore are composed of carbon based compounds.

Was that answer acceptable?

 

[Gene2memE]

Hello Gene2memE.

Methinks the answer is carbon.

Organic compounds therefore are composed of carbon based compounds.

Was that answer acceptable?

Acceptable.

Next question: Is carbon sterile?

 

[dysert]

You'll have to be more specific - which particular life form did you have in mind?

Anything living will do.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Anything living will do.

Organisms can degenerate and die for a multitude of reasons. Ironically, life's too short to waste time trying to list them all here. If you have some particular example in mind tell me, and I'll see if I can explain it.

 

[Nithavela]

Question 3: Do you believe that following the initial spark of life, that homeostasis took over from there?

It most likely wasn't running as smoothly as it does now, but I believe so, yes. Otherwise the life would have stopped before it got anywhere.

I also believe it likely that for every successfull start of life, there were thousands where something that could be described as living existed, but died because of systemic failures.

 

[Nithavela]

Here's the last question. It's a "why" question so I won't be surprised to see a variety of answers. It's also obviously an essay question, so knock yourselves out. Thanks.

Question 4: After evolving for hundreds of millions of years, why does a life form start to degenerate just after birth only to destroy itself in a short period of time?

Because mistakes happen during DNA transcription and other causes for mutation exist, as well as other detrimental environmental factors.

 

[Nithavela]

Acceptable.

Next question: Is carbon sterile?

Carbon is a tramp.

 

[Loudmouth]

The boundaries and definition of life are debatable and uncertain, for example, the hoary old question - are viruses alive?

And to add even more grey between the black and white . . .

Were viruses possibly alive in the past?

Are mitochondria alive and an organism until themselves?

Are obligate intracellular parasites (e.g. chlamydia species) alive?

Parasitism would appear to blur the lines as well.

 

[Loudmouth]

Organic chemistry is irrelevant in a sterile environment. Once the sterilization event has occurred
the environment is sterile regardless of the chemical composition of the environment.

Life would be a lot easier for scientists if science could be done by making proclamations. Alas, science actually requires more work than simply making assertions.

 

[klutedavid]

Acceptable.

Next question: Is carbon sterile?

Hello Gene2memE.

Obviously carbon is not regarded as having life.

We may need to define what constitutes life, before we enter into any discussion.

This is your area Gene2memE, so what is an acceptable definition of a living organism?

 

[Gene2memE]

Ok, so carbon is sterile. And carbon forms the basis for organic chemistry. Organic chemistry in turn forms the basis for life.

So, can life originate from a sterile environment?

 

[Abraxos]

It is notable that a lot of these nasty bacteria seem to be degenerated forms of good bacteria. And because they are degenerated that can't get the nutrients they need, and therefore they have to become parasites from more complex organisms to get the nutrients. So you find things like the Mycoplasma, the simplest germ quite clearly has a degenerated genome. The leprosy germ tends to be five times smaller to benevolent germs yet have the same genome. So quite a lot of these germs are degenerated forms from once beneficial organisms.

Kinda everything the theory of evolution claims is opposite to what real life tells us.

 

[klutedavid]

Ok, so carbon is sterile. And carbon forms the basis for organic chemistry. Organic chemistry in turn forms the basis for life.

So, can life originate from a sterile environment?

Hello Gene2.

Organic chemistry in turn forms the basis for life.

Life as we know it Gene2, appears to have organic chemistry as a basis for any given
life form here on earth. Whether organic chemistry is a basic platform of all life we do
not know. Our knowledge is extremely limited, whether life can exist in other formats,
is at this stage beyond our understanding.

Life cannot be generated within a sterile environment, otherwise our definition of 'sterile'
would need to be amended.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

footnote to look into regarding germs:

It is notable that a lot of these nasty bacteria seem to be degenerated forms of good bacteria. And because they are degenerated that can't get the nutrients they need, and therefore they have to become parasites from more complex organisms to get the nutrients. So you find things like the Mycoplasma, the simplest germ quite clearly has a degenerated genome. The leprosy germ tends to be five times smaller to benevolent germs yet have the same genome. So quite a lot of these germs are degenerated forms from once beneficial organisms.

This all may be true or not - testable or not. (doesn't matter if it is not verifiable/ testable, does it? )
One honest man before pastuer was antoine bechamp. Bechamp discovered some remarkable things
that were later buried due to greed and profit-motive by lawyers and others in power.
Pasteur was willing to "go with the money" instead of being honest or truthful,
and thus a whole .... well..... thus some very valuable truth was buried / covered up/ hidden from the public for quite some time.
Have fun, if possible, finding out !