I used Father and Son for "
Root and Offspring" because I hoped it would be a helpful analogy. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to get back to this yet, but I'll try to tomorrow.
BTW, the post you were replying to (which I just posted again here) was sort of a continuous thought, but I don't believe you commented on the rest of it, particularly about what verses such as
John 1:3,
Colossians 1:16-17,
Matthew 22:45 and
John 17:5 are saying ... which all speak of Jesus as someone FAR greater than a mere man.
--David
Hello David. I'm sorry I didn't address these verses. I've wrote a lot and I have several people talking to me, so I'm trying to get back to everyone in a timely matter.
I interpret John 1:1 as...
In the first was the
λόγος (
reason) and the reason was moving towards the God and divine was the reason
It was in the first with the God
All
δι’ (because of) it emerges and without it emerges not one that has emerge
So in John, I see that God had a reason, and that reason was that God would accomplish making mankind in his image...and all emerges because of the reason. Yeshua is the man that came on behalf of the reason...
"This is he
of (ὑπέρ:in behalf of) whom I said, After me cometh
a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me." KJV
""This is He
on behalf of whom I said, 'After me comes
a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me (Greek: foremost of me he was).'" NASV
Although I do not agree with Paul, I do not disagree with him about Colossians 1:15-17...
"Who is
the image of the invisible God, the
firstborn of every creature (
not born first, but as Issac was called Abraham's firstborn):
For by (
δι’ because of) him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether
they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by (
δι’ because of) him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by (
ἐν:in) him all things consist.
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the
firstborn from the dead; that in all
things he might have the preeminence."
I already addressed Matthew 22:45. Yeshua was speaking figuratively as "the bread of life which comes down from heaven". That is why he said we must "eat his flesh", because his flesh is the word of God. And man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word of the living God.
"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." John 17:5
This passage and another verse...
"I and
my Father are one." John 10:30
...are bother fully explained here....
"And the glory which
thou gavest me I have given them; that
they may be one, even as we are one" John 17:22
We share the same glory that Yeshua had with the Father before the wold began. This was the glory of the reason that God set into motion before He ever prepared the ages. This glory was that we should be in His Image, after His Likeness, and to have dominion over all things...just like He says from the very beginning...
"And God said, Let us make (
נַֽעֲשֶׂ֥ה:
accomplish)
man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." Genesis 1:26
This was all accomplished in Yeshua the Messiah, and it is accomplished when we "die" and we are "born again". Yeshua is the firstborn of those "born again", and
now we are the sons of God!
rhíza.
Secular Greek. This word means literally “root” of a plant, figuratively “foot” of a mountain, historically “founding” of a city,
genealogically “origin” or “stem” of a family, cosmologically “origin” of things (i.e., the earth), and psychologically the soul as our “origin.”
Kittel, G., Friedrich, G., & Bromiley, G. W. (1985). Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (p. 985). Grand Rapids, MI: W.B. Eerdmans.
rhiza (
ῥίζα, 4491) is used (a) in the natural sense, Matt. 3:10; 13:6, 21;
Mark 4:6, 17, 11:20;
Luke 3:9; 8:13; (b) metaphorically (1)
of “cause, origin, source,” said of persons, ancestors, Rom. 11:16, 17, 18 (twice); of things, evils, 1 Tim. 6:10, RV, of the love of money as a “root” of all “kinds of evil” (marg., “evils”, KJV, “evil”); bitterness, Heb. 12:15; (2) of that which springs from a “root,” a shoot, said of offspring, Rom. 15:12; Rev. 5:5; 22:16.
Vine, W. E., Unger, M. F., & White, W., Jr. (1996). Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (Vol. 2, p. 539). Nashville, TN: T. Nelson.
4491
ῥίζα [
rhiza /hrid·zah/] n f. Apparently a primary word; TDNT 6:985; TDNTA 985; GK 4844; 17 occurrences; AV translates as “root” 17 times. 1 a root. 2 that which like a root springs from a root, a sprout, shoot. 3 metaph.
offspring, progeny.
Strong, J. (1995). Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon. Woodside Bible Fellowship.
My concordance says something different, but it doesn't matter. My concordance only shows 1 Timothy 6:10 as meaning "cause, origin, source", because Paul says money is the root of all evil. But I'm going to quote your concordance and bolden what I see (you also bolden "offspring" for some reason, which is what I'm saying "root" means- because it offsprings from a seed)...
rhíza.
Secular Greek. This word means literally “root” of a plant, figuratively “foot” of a mountain, historically “founding” of a city,genealogically “origin” or “stem” of a family, cosmologically “origin” of things (i.e., the earth), and psychologically the soul as our “origin.” Kittel, G., Friedrich, G., & Bromiley, G. W. (1985). Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (p. 985). Grand Rapids, MI: W.B. Eerdmans. (
This offers no verses or explanation why it would mean origin)
rhiza (ῥίζα, 4491) is used (a) in the natural sense, Matt. 3:10; 13:6, 21;
Mark 4:6, 17, 11:20;
Luke 3:9; 8:13; (b) metaphorically (1)of “cause, origin, source,” said of persons, ancestors, Rom. 11:16, 17, 18 (twice) (
none of these verses have to do with genealogy- Paul is metaphorically talking about actual roots, and roots come before branches. But the seed comes before all); of things, evils, 1 Tim. 6:10, RV, of the love of money as a “root” of all “kinds of evil” (marg., “evils”, KJV, “evil”); bitterness, Heb. 12:15; (2)
of that which springs from a “root,” a shoot, said of offspring, Rom. 15:12;
Rev. 5:5;
22:16 (This is the verse in question, and the concordance says it means offspring- descendant). Vine, W. E., Unger, M. F., & White, W., Jr. (1996). Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (Vol. 2, p. 539). Nashville, TN: T. Nelson.
4491 ῥίζα [
rhiza /hrid·zah/] n f. Apparently a primary word; TDNT 6:985; TDNTA 985; GK 4844; 17 occurrences; AV translates as “root” 17 times. 1 a root. 2 that which like a root springs from a root, a sprout, shoot. 3 metaph.
offspring, progeny. Strong, J. (1995).Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon. Woodside Bible Fellowship."
The last instance is what you bolded. It says "offspring, progeny". Both offspring and progeny mean a descendant. Being called "the root of David" does not mean Yeshua is his ancestor in any way whatsoever.
Thank you.
Would you mind elaborating a bit? Thanks!
