Paul's limited understanding!

[anonymouswho]

I view the disciples and apostles (Paul esp.) to be in harmony after their meet.

You don't think so, then why?

I view Paul's REBUKE to Peter as an awakening to Peter. He did remember his dream and the fact that God's intent rendered unto men in TORAH is now rendered differently. Not only regarding circumcision, but also regarding the itty bitty laws, sublaws, bylaws, extended laws according to circumstances, ceremonial law and traditional laws.

But SHEMA remains the Highest Law and was NEVER abrogated, done away with, retired or disposed of. It in fact is ENHANCED by the Circumcision of the Heart, the rebirth in Spirit Jesus told Nicodemus he must have. Paul calls this AGAPE, the Evidence Most of the Baptized Ones. The one TRUMPING all other Gifts of Spirit.

Hey nothead, thank you for joining us.

There are several reasons I do not find Paul's theology to be in sync with the Apostles. I provided an example when I quoted Galatians, but we can look at it in more detail. In Acts 15, Jacob says..

"But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day." Acts 15:20

All the Apostles and disciples agreed to this. However, in Galatians Paul says...

"And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do." Galatians 2:9

Paul says that the only thing the Apostles and Jacob had determined they should do is "remember the poor". This is not true. The Apostles had actually determined that new Gentile converts should abstain from the four things on the list, because Moses is read in the synagogues every sabbath. This means- food sacrificed to idols, fornication, things strangled, and blood- are the bare minimum of what we are required to follow. As we learn the Law, we are supposed to practice it. The Jews expected us to start following all the Law right away, and the Jerusalem Council determined that we shouldn't be subjected to all the Law until we learn it.

If you read 1 Corthinians chapter 8, Paul discussed food sacrificed to idols. Paul says it's okay to eat anything, and if we do not eat whatever, we are a "weak brother"....

"For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols" 1 Corinthians 8:10

Why would we even think it's okay to go into an idols temple to begin with?

In chapter 10, he seems to either realize what he said, or whoever was with him may have been like "Yo Paul, you can't say that!"...so Paul makes it out like its still okay to eat food sacrificed to idols, as long as the Jews don't see us.

"Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved." 1 Corinthians 10:32

Yeshua says...

"I receive not honour from men.
But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?" John 5:41

Yeshua says to the church in Pergamos...

"But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication." Revelation 2:14

And he says to the church of Ephesus (the only church in Revelation that we have a direct letter from Paul to)...

"I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars" Revelation 2:2

The churches that John writes to in Revelation are all in Asia. Paul says something very interesting about the churches of Asia...

"This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes." 2 Timothy 1:15

That's enough for now...thank you.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Paul never endorsed nor proclaim the virgin birth of Jesus!

He never wrote of Hell, either.

 

[anonymouswho]

Jesus was NOT Joseph's son in any biological way. Mary was also of the line of David, that is where Jesus got that line.

Hello ToBeLoved. I believe you're saying this based on...

"And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was [the son] of Heli" Luke 3:23

...and because Matthew says...

"And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ." Matthew 1:16

There is clearly a contradiction here. So rather than take Luke for what he says, the theologians say that Mary was actually the daughter of Heli, but Joseph was used to follow some tradition of "using the husbands name instead of the wife". I have zero reason to believe this.

If, however, the first two chapters of Matthew and Luke are not original, then Luke's genealogy stands true, there is no issue with the curse of Jehoiakim, and we can reconcile many more things...which I will explain to der alter below. Thank you.

You can't see the huge contradiction here? You blow off Paul's experience as something in his head but you base your understanding of Luke chapter 3 on some esoteric private "revelation?"

Hello Der Alter. No, I don't see a contradiction. I simply asked God to help me understand what is true vs untrue. I'm not claiming to have some divine knowledge of God's will that only I possess.

When I saw that chapter 3 seems to be the beginning of Luke's story, it did not confirm that the virgin birth was added. It simply gave me a reason to investigate the matter further. So I looked to the beginning of Matthew chapter 3...

"In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 3:1

...which starts out just like Mark, John, and Luke without the first two chapters.

So we dig a little deeper. I'll start with a few things that seem strange...

"His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.
For there is no man that doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, shew thyself to the world.
For neither did his brethren believe in him." John 7:3

I find it very hard to believe that Yeshua's brothers... who would have known better than anyone that their brother was born from a virgin and that angels had told Mary and Joseph that their son would be the Messiah... still did not believe it. Not saying it's impossible, just highly unlikely.

So those in Yeshua's own household did not believe, and there is another man that had trouble believing...

"Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?
Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me." Matthew 11:2

Now, this is understandable if John baptised Yeshua but still wasn't completely convinced. But if Elizabeth was his mother, and she was the cousin of Mary- making John and Yeshua cousins- then he would have surely heard about how his cousin was born from a virgin and angels came to testify that he would be the Messiah. But John acts as though he doesn't even know Yeshua...

"And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God." John 1:31

Another reason is the fact that Marcion's copy of Luke did not have the first two chapters, and Papyrus 75, the oldest manuscript we have of Luke, is considered "corrupted" because it doesn't have the first two chapter...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_75

So I do not deny the virgin birth because of some esoteric interpretation. I deny it because it doesn't make any sense. That's probably enough for now. Thank you.

 

[ToBeLoved]

There are several reasons I do not find Paul's theology to be in sync with the Apostles. I provided an example when I quoted Galatians, but we can look at it in more detail. In Acts 15, Jacob says..

"But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day." Acts 15:20

There is no Jacob in Acts 15.

Also, reading the full chapter of Acts 15, you will see that Paul was at that council with the Apostles and what was decided was that they should not place on the Gentiles the heavy burden of the Law (over 613 laws) but because the Pharisees were preaching that the Gentiles had to follow them all, it was decided that they would only mention a few.

So you are totally off. Later, God showed Peter that even the laws that were decided in Acts 15 were not to be put on the Gentiles. So what you say is invalid as it was recorded earlier than the Galatians.

The Pharisee's were teaching that no one can eat unclean (non-kosher) meats. However, it is not non-kosher, but STRANGLED animal meats

 

[ToBeLoved]

Hello ToBeLoved. I believe you're saying this based on...
"And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was [the son] of Heli" Luke 3:23
...and because Matthew says...
"And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ." Matthew 1:16
There is clearly a contradiction here. So rather than take Luke for what he says, the theologians say that Mary was actually the daughter of Heli, but Joseph was used to follow some tradition of "using the husbands name instead of the wife". I have zero reason to believe this.

If, however, the first two chapters of Matthew and Luke are not original, then Luke's genealogy stands true, there is no issue with the curse of Jehoiakim, and we can reconcile many more things...which I will explain to der alter below. Thank you.

Luke is recording Mary’s genealogy and Matthew is recording Joseph’s. Matthew is following the line of Joseph (Jesus’ legal father), through David’s son Solomon, while Luke is following the line of Mary (Jesus’ blood relative), through David’s son Nathan. Since there was no Greek word for “son-in-law,” Joseph was called the “son of Heli” by marriage to Mary, Heli’s daughter. Through either Mary’s or Joseph’s line, Jesus is a descendant of David and therefore eligible to be the Messiah. Tracing a genealogy through the mother’s side is unusual, but so was the virgin birth. Luke’s explanation is that Jesus was the son of Joseph, “so it was thought” (Luke 3:23).

So Jesus had the Davidic bloodline through Mary also.

 

[anonymouswho]

There is no Jacob in Acts 15.

"Μετὰ δὲ τὸ σιγῆσαι αὐτοὺς ἀπεκρίθη Ἰάκωβος λέγων Ἄνδρες ἀδελφοί, ἀκούσατέ μου" Acts 15:13

If you click on the name it will bring you to an interlinear. It's pretty easy to see that this is Jacob just from the Greek, but if you look under the "Word Origin", you can see that it is the same word, which is Yaqobb in Hebrew. I think the reason for James comes from the Vulgate, but his name is Jacob. Just as the Christian god is Jesus Christ, and the Jewish Messiah is Yeshua (Joshua), which means YHVH saves.

Luke is recording Mary’s genealogy and Matthew is recording Joseph’s. Matthew is following the line of Joseph (Jesus’ legal father), through David’s son Solomon, while Luke is following the line of Mary (Jesus’ blood relative), through David’s son Nathan. Since there was no Greek word for “son-in-law,” Joseph was called the “son of Heli” by marriage to Mary, Heli’s daughter. Through either Mary’s or Joseph’s line, Jesus is a descendant of David and therefore eligible to be the Messiah. Tracing a genealogy through the mother’s side is unusual, but so was the virgin birth. Luke’s explanation is that Jesus was the son of Joseph, “so it was thought” (Luke 3:23).

So Jesus had the Davidic bloodline through Mary also.

"And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being as (ὡς) was supposed (ἐνομίζετο) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli" Luke 3:23

(If you click on "Luke 3:23" I have it linked to an interlinear of the entire chapter on biblehub.com. From there, you can go to any book and chapter in the bible and see the original language matched with several concordances and a parsing key.)

The KJV translates this verse correctly, but they add parentheses around "as was supposed" to make it appear as an afterthought. Instead, Luke is literally saying Yeshua was the son of Joseph, just as everyone supposed.

If I say "The ball, as was supposed, is round", you would know that everyone thought the ball was round, and that I am confirming this fact. This is why I said "the theologians say that Mary was actually the daughter of Heli" and "I have zero reason to believe this".

I have to spend some time with the family. I'll respond about the Law when I get a chance, because it's going to take a bit of time. For now, you could read Deauteronomy 13, which I'll copy here real quick...

"If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for YHVH your God proveth you, to know whether ye love YHVH your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Ye shall walk after YHVH your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from YHVH your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which YHVH thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.
If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from YHVH thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.
If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which YHVH thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,
Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;
Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;
Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for YHVH thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.
And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that YHVH may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers;
When thou shalt hearken to the voice of YHVH thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of YHVH thy God."

Thank you.

 

[Righttruth]

He never wrote of Hell, either.

Naturally, because he was interested in offering sugar coated candies.

 

[St_Worm2]

"Μετὰ δὲ τὸ σιγῆσαι αὐτοὺς ἀπεκρίθη Ἰάκωβος λέγων Ἄνδρες ἀδελφοί, ἀκούσατέ μου" Acts 15:13

If you click on the name it will bring you to an interlinear. It's pretty easy to see that this is Jacob just from the Greek, but if you look under the "Word Origin", you can see that it is the same word, which is Yaqobb in Hebrew. I think the reason for James comes from the Vulgate, but his name is Jacob. Just as the Christian god is Jesus Christ, and the Jewish Messiah is Yeshua (Joshua), which means YHVH saves.

I don't have time to join in right now, but quickly, from Matthew 1 to Hebrews 11, Ἰακώβ [Iakob] is translated "Jacob".

And from Matthew 4 to Jude 1, Ἰάκωβος [Iakobos] is always translated "James". (as in the brother of Jesus, who I believe was the one speaking in Acts 15:13).

I see what you are saying, but if what you say is true, and James' true name is "Jacob", why not use Ἰακώβ instead

 

[nothead]

Hey nothead, thank you for joining us.

There are several reasons I do not find Paul's theology to be in sync with the Apostles. I provided an example when I quoted Galatians, but we can look at it in more detail. In Acts 15, Jacob says..

"But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day." Acts 15:20

All the Apostles and disciples agreed to this. However, in Galatians Paul says...

"And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do." Galatians 2:9

so...Paul was given a slightly different set of em one rule, how does this state a limitation? Gentiles don't know the reason why the other exhortations in JERUSALEM would be given, they do not know the reasons for and MIGHT just could be red flagging the whole by means of ignorance. I don't see how this is Paul LIMITED, just that I see the Jerusalem JEWS being given a slightly different set of exhortations.

For me there is no problem since Salvation hinges not upon ANY of these rules and in fact hinges upon only ONE rule ever given by God, Shema. This is the agape love Paul PLEADS for them to prioritize as the saints were contending in the faith.
Shema STATES to love God with all, and this naturally EXTENDS to love of one another. The LOVE PRINCIPLE is EMPHASIZED by Paul, and he did not USE the term known only to Jews, SHEMA...since just like today, MOST scholars, pastors, leaders and elders don't know the WORD.

Paul says that the only thing the Apostles and Jacob had determined they should do is "remember the poor". This is not true. The Apostles had actually determined that new Gentile converts should abstain from the four things on the list, because Moses is read in the synagogues every sabbath. This means- food sacrificed to idols, fornication, things strangled, and blood- are the bare minimum of what we are required to follow. As we learn the Law, we are supposed to practice it. The Jews expected us to start following all the Law right away, and the Jerusalem Council determined that we shouldn't be subjected to all the Law until we learn it.

Okaydokay but this don't abrogate my view either.

If you read 1 Corthinians chapter 8, Paul discussed food sacrificed to idols. Paul says it's okay to eat anything, and if we do not eat whatever, we are a "weak brother"....

"For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols" 1 Corinthians 8:10

Why would we even think it's okay to go into an idols temple to begin with?

In chapter 10, he seems to either realize what he said, or whoever was with him may have been like "Yo Paul, you can't say that!"...so Paul makes it out like its still okay to eat food sacrificed to idols, as long as the Jews don't see us.

"Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved." 1 Corinthians 10:32

Yup, Paul is treating this issue as a backburner issue ESPECIALLY for the Gentile contingent.

Yeshua says...

"I receive not honour from men.
But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?" John 5:41

Yeshua says to the church in Pergamos...

"But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication." Revelation 2:14

What is the love of God in you, but the Spirit speaking and empowering you to love God first and others next?
And what IS eating unholy food but EATING things which true theology says are lies?

And he says to the church of Ephesus (the only church in Revelation that we have a direct letter from Paul to)...

"I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars" Revelation 2:2

The churches that John writes to in Revelation are all in Asia. Paul says something very interesting about the churches of Asia...

"This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes." 2 Timothy 1:15

Are you saying Revelations is CONDEMNING Paul? Whatta theory, sir. Why he strike him down with GRACE just in order to strike him down LATERS sir? God any idears, sir?

 

[nothead]

Naturally, because he was interested in offering sugar coated candies.

Watta bloke statement. Bloke you BLOKE sir. Take THAT to the bank and see how they treat you.

 

[ToBeLoved]

"Μετὰ δὲ τὸ σιγῆσαι αὐτοὺς ἀπεκρίθη Ἰάκωβος λέγων Ἄνδρες ἀδελφοί, ἀκούσατέ μου" Acts 15:13

If you click on the name it will bring you to an interlinear. It's pretty easy to see that this is Jacob just from the Greek, but if you look under the "Word Origin", you can see that it is the same word, which is Yaqobb in Hebrew. I think the reason for James comes from the Vulgate, but his name is Jacob. Just as the Christian god is Jesus Christ, and the Jewish Messiah is Yeshua (Joshua), which means YHVH saves.

If you are interested in speaking in Interlinear Greek, I'll pass. I think you can speak in English. I think enough at work, I don't need to hold a Bible Study to interpret what your saying.

Kapish?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I don't have time to join in right now, but quickly, from Matthew 1 to Hebrews 11, Ἰακώβ [Iakob] is translated "Jacob".

And from Matthew 4 to Jude 1, Ἰάκωβος [Iakobos] is always translated "James". (as in the brother of James, who I believe was the one speaking in Acts 15:13).

I see what you are saying, but if what you say is true, and James' true name is "Jacob", why not use Ἰακώβ instead

I agree. They are not the same word, I see that.

 

[ToBeLoved]

"Μετὰ δὲ τὸ σιγῆσαι αὐτοὺς ἀπεκρίθη Ἰάκωβος λέγων Ἄνδρες ἀδελφοί, ἀκούσατέ μου" Acts 15:13

If you click on the name it will bring you to an interlinear. It's pretty easy to see that this is Jacob just from the Greek, but if you look under the "Word Origin", you can see that it is the same word, which is Yaqobb in Hebrew. I think the reason for James comes from the Vulgate, but his name is Jacob. Just as the Christian god is Jesus Christ, and the Jewish Messiah is Yeshua (Joshua), which means YHVH saves.



"And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being as (ὡς) was supposed (ἐνομίζετο) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli" Luke 3:23

(If you click on "Luke 3:23" I have it linked to an interlinear of the entire chapter on biblehub.com. From there, you can go to any book and chapter in the bible and see the original language matched with several concordances and a parsing key.)

The KJV translates this verse correctly, but they add parentheses around "as was supposed" to make it appear as an afterthought. Instead, Luke is literally saying Yeshua was the son of Joseph, just as everyone supposed.

If I say "The ball, as was supposed, is round", you would know that everyone thought the ball was round, and that I am confirming this fact. This is why I said "the theologians say that Mary was actually the daughter of Heli" and "I have zero reason to believe this".

I have to spend some time with the family. I'll respond about the Law when I get a chance, because it's going to take a bit of time. For now, you could read Deauteronomy 13, which I'll copy here real quick...

"If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for YHVH your God proveth you, to know whether ye love YHVH your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Ye shall walk after YHVH your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from YHVH your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which YHVH thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.
If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from YHVH thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.
If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which YHVH thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,
Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;
Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;
Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for YHVH thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.
And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that YHVH may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers;
When thou shalt hearken to the voice of YHVH thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of YHVH thy God."

Thank you.

Can you please address both lineages, not just Luke. I was clear in my thoughts, but I do not see you addressing both. I don't see what half of this post is about in reply to my post.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Naturally, because he was interested in offering sugar coated candies.

If your not right, I'm sure Jesus will not be pleased with you.

Talking about one of the apostles with such disrespect is shameful.

 

[Righttruth]

Watta bloke statement. Bloke you BLOKE sir. Take THAT to the bank and see how they treat you.

I am calling the king naked!

 

[Righttruth]

If your not right, I'm sure Jesus will not be pleased with you.

Talking about one of the apostles with such disrespect is shameful.

Self and boastful and unauthorized claims will not please Jesus

 

[ToBeLoved]

Self and boastful and unauthorized claims will not please Jesus

You really cannot support your argument. You believe that Luke correctly wrote the gospel of Luke, but not the Book of Acts.

You are very boastful in your beliefs and understanding. Paul is much more humble than what you say he is.

 

[The Hammer of Witches]

Paul knew about Christ being born of the virgin, he was writing to people who had already heard and accepted that truth into their hearts. The letters were to help them grow in the faith, to edify them.

 

[Righttruth]

You really cannot support your argument. You believe that Luke correctly wrote the gospel of Luke, but not the Book of Acts.

I hold John's Gospel at the top since he was close to Jesus, next Matthew's since he was an apostle, followed by Mark's who got the information directly from Peter and followed by Luke (the only Gentile writer in the entire Bible) who heard from others.

You are very boastful in your beliefs and understanding. Paul is much more humble than what you say he is.

Truth need to be proclaimed. Only a dead fish flow with the current. Paul exhibits both boastfulness as well as humbleness. You need to pick the right one.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hi AW, I wrote:

"Root and offspring" = BOTH Father and Son of David = All of us, including King David, find our "root" in Jesus Christ (i.e. John 1:3; Colossians 1:16) as He is our Creator (and our Sustainer .. Colossians 1:17)

At His Incarnation however, He was born in the line of King David, the Messianic line.

Here is a similar passage to consider from Matthew 22:

41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question:
42 “What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?” They said to Him, “The son of David.”
43 He said to them, “Then how does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying,
44 ‘THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I PUT YOUR ENEMIES BENEATH YOUR FEET” ’?
45 “If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his son?”
46 No one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day on to ask Him another question.​

The Lord, Christ Jesus, is the root AND the descendant of King David. He is "Emmanuel" ("God with us" .. see Isaiah 7:14; Isaiah 9:6-7; Matthew 1:23).

Yours and His,
David

"Father, glorify Me together with Yourself,
with the glory which I had with You
before the world began"
John 17:5

​

You replied:

I get what you're saying, but I have trouble reconciling your interpretation with the terms associated with the analogy.

I used Father and Son for "Root and Offspring" because I hoped it would be a helpful analogy. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to get back to this yet, but I'll try to tomorrow.

BTW, the post you were replying to (which I just posted again here) was sort of a continuous thought, but I don't believe you commented on the rest of it, particularly about what verses such as John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17, Matthew 22:45 and John 17:5 are saying ... which all speak of Jesus as someone FAR greater than a mere man.

--David