LDS Mormonism is an enemy of the Cross and therefore not Christian

[Jane_Doe]

It looks to me that maybe, the mormons who are posting on here have never seen the hidden facts about their denomination? To the mormons on here:

The facts i mentioned through that link, are you saying that they are 'not' part of Mormonism?

Are you saying that nothing on this list is true:

Mormon Beliefs documented
Please note that these teachings are documented from Mormon writers--not anti-Mormon writers:

1. Book of Mormon
   1. The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 461).
2. Devil, the
   1. The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).
   2. Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
3. God
   1. God used to be a man on another planet (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321, Joseph Smith,Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614, Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333).
   2. "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans . . . ," (D&C 130:22).
4. God, becoming a god
   1. After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354).
   2. "Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (DC 132:20).
5. God, many gods
   1. There are many gods (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
   2. "And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light," (Book of Abraham 4:3).
6. God, mother goddess
   1. There is a mother god (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).
   2. God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).
7. God, Trinity
   1. The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).
8. Heaven
   1. There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial (Mormon Doctrine, p. 348).
9. Holy Ghost, the
   1. The Holy Ghost is a male personage (A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, 1956, p. 118, Journal of Discources, vol. 5, p. 179).
10. Jesus
    1. "Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
    2. "The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood--was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115).
    3. "Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh . . . " (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, God the Father, compiled by Gordon Allred, p. 150).
11. Joseph Smith
    1. If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670).
12. Pre-existence
    1. We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth (Journal of Discourse, vol. 4, p. 218).
    2. The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129).
    3. The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).
13. Salvation
    1. "One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation," (Miracle of Forgiveness, by Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206).
    2. A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 193, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 8).
    3. Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, 1856, p. 247).
    4. Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, p. 92).
    5. There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188).
    6. "The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79).
    7. "As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements--'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,'" (Articles of Faith, p. 79).
    8. "This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts," (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).
    9. "We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do," (2 Nephi 25:23).
14. Trinity, the
    1. The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

Mormon beliefs are not in line with Biblical truth because they teach things that are opposed to the Word of God. It is clear that Mormonism is not Christian.

Piece of evengalizing advice:
1) don't treat the person you're trying to evengalize as a sub human idiot
2) don't try to "prove" your superior knowledge by posting a bunch of obvious spun misinformation
3) share what you believe is right.

 

[mmksparbud]

FYI carm is a poor site to learn about LDS beliefs ( their objective is to freighten you away) and this specific page you linked is full of spun false information.

Really?? They give the source from Mormon books where you can find the info. Looked up everything and everything checked and has been admitted to here. Claiming the "it's full of spun information" just doesn't cut it any more. Go to your website and you get real spun information---All sounding very Christian, but not the real and complete truth. Like I said, you have to dig through your books to find the real truth that you all won't admit to unless backed up into a corner with the actual writings.

 

[mmksparbud]

Piece of evengalizing advice:
1) don't treat the person you're trying to evengalize as a sub human idiot
2) don't try to "prove" your superior knowledge by posting a bunch of obvious spun misinformation
3) share what you believe is right.

You are under the impression someone is trying to evangelize you??? No. We are pointing out error and shining a light on the truth!!!! We got tired of being lied and manipulated with half truths and have had to dig out the truth!

 

[mmksparbud]

I have already answered both of these as no in the earlier part of the thread.

Now, since wearing a cross does not make one a Christian, what part of not wearing a cross makes one not a Christian (the OP)?

Most Protestants do not wear crosses. But having the wrong idea of what it represents is not Christian.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Really?? They give the source from Mormon books where you can find the info. Looked up everything and everything checked and has been admitted to here. Claiming the "it's full of spun information" just doesn't cut it any more. Go to your website and you get real spun information---All sounding very Christian, but not the real and complete truth. Like I said, you have to dig through your books to find the real truth that you all won't admit to unless backed up into a corner with the actual writings.

It IS spun information. 100%. Taken out of context, words twisted, knowingly spun, and and deliberately posted misinformation.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Most Protestants do not wear crosses.

So would you agree that this OP, which focuses on wearing a literal cross, is false?

 

[mmksparbud]

It IS spun information. 100%. Taken out of context, words twisted, knowingly spun, and and deliberately posted misinformation.

Like your pat answers to questions worded so that they sound like Christian doctrine, but when examined closely they are not??? You guys always say this----but not once have you given an example of misinformation. Hard to do when the quote is taken from your own books.

 

[mmksparbud]

So would you agree that this OP, which focuses on wearing a literal cross, is false?

I am not saying that wearing a cross is false. I am whoever, saying your interpretation of why you do not wear one is false. You load your persons and buildings with Masonic and other symbols, but avoid the cross. Most Protestants do not wear crosses or have other symbols all over the place that have nothing to do with the Christian faith.

 

[Jane_Doe]

You are under the impression someone is trying to evangelize you??? No. We are pointing out error and shining a light on the truth!!!!

Aka trying to evangalize.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I am not saying that wearing a cross is false. I am whoever, saying your interpretation of why you do not wear one is false. You load your persons and buildings with Masonic and other symbols, but avoid the cross. Most Protestants do not wear crosses or have other symbols all over the place that have nothing to do with the Christian faith.

This is a deflection and not an answer to my question.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Really?? They give the source from Mormon books where you can find the info. Looked up everything and everything checked and has been admitted to here. Claiming the "it's full of spun information" just doesn't cut it any more. Go to your website and you get real spun information---All sounding very Christian, but not the real and complete truth. Like I said, you have to dig through your books to find the real truth that you all won't admit to unless backed up into a corner with the actual writings.

Iron hold and wondering awe both already went over how the posted site gives misinformation. You have not responded to them

 

[mmksparbud]

Aka trying to evangalize.

Nope. I said what I mean.

This is a deflection and not an answer to my question.

It most definitely is the answer to your question. You just don't like it.

 

[mmksparbud]

Iron hold and wondering awe both already went over how the posted site gives misinformation. You have not responded to them

I most certainly did!!

Really?? They give the source from Mormon books where you can find the info. Looked up everything and everything checked and has been admitted to here. Claiming the "it's full of spun information" just doesn't cut it any more. Go to your website and you get real spun information---All sounding very Christian, but not the real and complete truth. Like I said, you have to dig through your books to find the real truth that you all won't admit to unless backed up into a corner with the actual writings.

 

[tickingclocker]

I didn't get the chance---her mother stepped in. I had sent her mother an e-mail asking her how she felt about this and what some of those believes were as her mom had changed (I thought) and was talking a lot about God and being Christian. Out of spite, her mother showed her the e-mail and got her very upset with me. Her mother made me out to be very intolerant and that what I was saying was all lies and her daughter has made no attempt to contact me. I am only her stepmother and her dad and I divorced years ago and then he died. We had bee close, and I always eased things between the mother and daughter as they were frequently getting into battles and I always reminded her that she's her mother and she needs to respect that. I would bot have shown the daughter the e-mail had the situation been reversed--she should have just yelled at me and we could have talked, but she wanted to cause a rift between us---mission accomplished. I just pray that God works things out.
One thing--0if you go to the official Mormon website, you won't get to find out all this stuff that easily. They don't discuss things very deeply, they sound like most Christian sites, it takes digging into their Book of Mormon, their Doctrines and Covenants and other books where you find out this stuff. Carm. has done the book work and they have listed their sources and you can read the articles yourself if you can find their books. But You can read the Book of Mormon on line ---it is about as long as the bible I think!!!! You can get the other books also. But I found I really do not like to read their literature, it makes me cringe. I did it to verify that what I was reading and being told by ex-Mormons was true---Sadly, it is.

Mormonism Research Ministry (MRM.org) is actually a much better site. Its the one that is actually banned on most Mormon forums for referencing. Most Mormons will instantly dismiss CARM, it being strictly Christian Apologetics. The site irr.org is very good, too. There are many sites hosted by ex-Mormons, too.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Mormonism Research Ministry (MRM.org) is actually a much better site. Its the one that is actually banned on most Mormon forums for referencing. Most Mormons will instantly dismiss CARM, it being strictly Christian Apologetics. The site irr.org is very good, too. There are many sites hosted by ex-Mormons, too.

Nice list of sites for misinformation on LDS beliefs.

 

[tickingclocker]

Yes. One god. One Jesus. One holy ghost. Separate beings, all. They are merely united in "mind" aka "unity". However, they can independently move and think for themselves. JS could not join them physically, because of the necessity of their being "married" in order to become gods (doesn't explain how their holy ghost became a god, because he doesn't have a body). The Mormon gods are not Siamese twins with a spirit hovering above them. They are entirely separate, independent beings who happen to agree with each other.

Polytheism.

Actually Mormons believe in more than three gods. They also have a goddess wife or wives, making their religion even more solidly polytheistic. Despite them not having to "worship" all the other Mormon gods in the universe, they still believe there are more gods out there. Polytheistic no matter which way you slice it.

 

[tickingclocker]

Yes, it upset me every time I found something new, which can be like pulling teeth because they dance around it with Cristian sounding words and do not answer questions and will ignore statements, they'll change the subject and so on. I get upset because my stepdaughter is one and I don't think she knows all this even though she's been in it around 8 years. She pulled away from all her family as she got into it. Her husband, his mother and their children are being raised in it. When I first cme on here I didnlt know anything and thought they were Chrisian---I've had to get away from the Mormon threads at times as I didn't want to know any more---I thought I finally got everything and tonight there was this new Gethsemane theory that left me slapping my forhead again!!

Keep praying for her and her family to know God as He is, and not as they have been indoctrinated into seeing him through JS's myopic, slanted perspective. God hears such prayers. How could He not? They are in HIS will! I've never been the type to pray for the "downfall" of anyone, praying negatively for them. It horrifies me when reading King David praying for the destruction of his enemies in Psalms. God loves compassion and mercy more than judgment! Praying for their salvation is much better for your own psyche than anything if God has willed they will never come to faith. If they do, you have won another brother or sister into the Kingdom and God is glorified, either way!

 

[tickingclocker]

It looks to me that maybe, the mormons who are posting on here have never seen the hidden facts about their denomination? To the mormons on here:

The facts i mentioned through that link, are you saying that they are 'not' part of Mormonism?

Are you saying that nothing on this list is true:

Mormon Beliefs documented
Please note that these teachings are documented from Mormon writers--not anti-Mormon writers:

1. Book of Mormon
   1. The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 461).
2. Devil, the
   1. The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).
   2. Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
3. God
   1. God used to be a man on another planet (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321, Joseph Smith,Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614, Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333).
   2. "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans . . . ," (D&C 130:22).
4. God, becoming a god
   1. After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354).
   2. "Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (DC 132:20).
5. God, many gods
   1. There are many gods (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
   2. "And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light," (Book of Abraham 4:3).
6. God, mother goddess
   1. There is a mother god (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).
   2. God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).
7. God, Trinity
   1. The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).
8. Heaven
   1. There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial (Mormon Doctrine, p. 348).
9. Holy Ghost, the
   1. The Holy Ghost is a male personage (A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, 1956, p. 118, Journal of Discources, vol. 5, p. 179).
10. Jesus
    1. "Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
    2. "The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood--was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115).
    3. "Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh . . . " (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, God the Father, compiled by Gordon Allred, p. 150).
11. Joseph Smith
    1. If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670).
12. Pre-existence
    1. We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth (Journal of Discourse, vol. 4, p. 218).
    2. The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129).
    3. The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).
13. Salvation
    1. "One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation," (Miracle of Forgiveness, by Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206).
    2. A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 193, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 8).
    3. Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, 1856, p. 247).
    4. Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, p. 92).
    5. There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188).
    6. "The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79).
    7. "As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements--'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,'" (Articles of Faith, p. 79).
    8. "This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts," (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).
    9. "We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do," (2 Nephi 25:23).
14. Trinity, the
    1. The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

Mormon beliefs are not in line with Biblical truth because they teach things that are opposed to the Word of God. It is clear that Mormonism is not Christian.

That's an impressive list. Where did you see this?

 

[tickingclocker]

oops it was ticking,


I think the fact that the knowledge we are accumulating is coming faster and faster shows the end is near.

And the year is 2016. We will never again be the people who willing and blindly accepted mormonism ever again. There is too much revealing information out there now about mormonism that can be obtained within seconds. It can no longer hide anything, dismiss, divert, or plain lie about what it teaches and believes any longer. Newspapers are becoming a thing of the past. We are an instant world society nowadays, not a bunch of people in some backwater where they heard news of the world every month or so. Instant knowledge is at our fingertips today. The light has been turned on and there is no turning it off, not even by force. No matter how many times the LDS tries to flood the internet with their false "facts", it will be found out for what it really is by people who value GOD'S TRUTH above all. So I for one am glad they keep lying to the public! When people find out they were lied to on so many fronts, they never return to mormonism. Mormonism only retains those who already know how to lie to themselves.

Satan has tried to tear down the salvation message of the Cross since God made Man. No matter what he has thrown at it, tried to subvert it, disguise it, tear it apart, cheapen it, or blatantly laugh and sneer at its offer of unconditional love, it remains standing firmly upright, immovable and unshaken. Mormonism will never have any more effect on it than he has. Our God reigns forever.

 

[tickingclocker]

Nope. I said what I mean.


It most definitely is the answer to your question. You just don't like it.

This website, Christian Forums, openly uses the word "outreach" for this forum. Outreach is purposeful evangelism. If Mormons don't like being evangelized here, there is little they can do about it. Did they expect anything less?