The Pinnacle of Evolution

[PsychoSarah]

I do not call them lukewarm God does and I do not say they are "hellbound" I say that they do not represent God. They do not speak for God they have rejected their Priesthood. They can still be saved because salvation is not based on works. Many are called few are chosen means that they reject God, God does not reject them He calls them but they do not accept their calling.

You have no idea, how much ego is coming off of you, that you assume that you are one of these chosen rather than considering the possibility that you are just as lost as those people, or even potentially worse off.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Because that is what the people wanted, that is what they asked for because they were afraid of God. "18 All the people perceived the thunder and the lightning flashes and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood at a distance. 19 Then they said to Moses, "Speak to us yourself and we will listen; but let not God speak to us, or we will die." 20 Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid;..." Exo 19

-_- oh yes, because those people speak for all of humanity. Also, they did not ask for a written account, they had the benefit of the deity "showing itself" before they decided they would rather have Moses convey what YHWH said rather than have to deal with the deity directly. However, Moses was able to communicate with YHWH without literally dying or having his health fail over time. Clearly, some portion of the human population can handle the direct communication, and if those people would actually die from it, don't you think YHWH wouldn't have spoken to them directly to begin with? Also, even if prolonged contact was dangerous for most people, clearly a single sentence isn't going to put anyone in their graves.

Furthermore, that wasn't god speaking, those are just noises that spooked ancient peoples that didn't understand what natural processes cause them. You do realize that at the time the OT was written, people thought all lightning was directly made by a deity, right? That it was supernatural to them? I don't think a modern audience would be so easily impressed.

 

[Hoghead1]

You have no idea, how much ego is coming off of you, that you assume that you are one of these chosen rather than considering the possibility that you are just as lost as those people, or even potentially worse off.

Amen to that.

 

[joshua 1 9]

So you really don't care and aren't serious about rejecting evolution. That's kind of hypocritical, I think.

Not at all, that is the way they teach debate at the university. IF you can argue EITHER side of an issue then you are better prepared to defend your arguments from the criticisms. I have no problem with Theistic Evolution. The problem is with Anti Theistic Evolution. Although no one here seems to want to argue against Theistic Evolution. There is plenty of debate among evolutionists and they far from agree on a lot of issues. Even at Harvard University Maynard Smith argued against Stephen Jay Gould. So there can be a lot of differences of opinions. Right now everyone seems to be going along with Francis Collins. So he seems to have found a middle ground that everyone can be happy with and maintain some degree of harmony & agreement.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You have no idea, how much ego is coming off of you, that you assume that you are one of these chosen rather than considering the possibility that you are just as lost as those people, or even potentially worse off.

You need to learn the difference between ego and superego. I assume that I am "chosen" because I am still alive. Otherwise there is really no reason for me to be here because where we are going is a lot better then where we are at. So I am here to help you, I am not here for me or for my sake. As I use to say I want to take as many people with me to heaven as I can. Because God is not wanting any to perish in their sin but for all to come to a saving knowledge of the truth.

The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 2Pet3:9

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not at all, that is the way they teach debate at the university. IF you can argue EITHER side of an issue then you are better prepared to defend your arguments from the criticisms. I have no problem with Theistic Evolution. The problem is with Anti Theistic Evolution. Although no one here seems to want to argue against Theistic Evolution. There is plenty of debate among evolutionists and they far from agree on a lot of issues. Even at Harvard University Maynard Smith argued against Stephen Jay Gould. So there can be a lot of differences of opinions. Right now everyone seems to be going along with Francis Collins. So he seems to have found a middle ground that everyone can be happy with and maintain some degree of harmony & agreement.

Joshua, how often are you going to make this error? There is no such thing as "Anti Theistic Evolution". Now there is the theory of evolution that if you push it can be said to be "atheistic" but then so is every other belief in science. To be consistent if you are going to call evolution "atheistic evolution" then you have to call gravity "atheistic gravity" you have to call thermodynamics "atheistic thermodynamics" etc. Now as an atheist I would thank you for all of the credit since there is no real "theistic" anything in science. And there is no argument about whether we are the product of evolution or not, what there is is debate about how evolution happened. We know that we are apes, we know that there was no Adam and Eve. And long before evolution came along we knew that there was no worldwide flood.

The fact that there never was a worldwide flood and a local flood would have made the Ark superfluous is easier to understand. Perhaps you should start there.

 

[joshua 1 9]

There is no such thing as "Anti Theistic Evolution". Now there is the theory of evolution that if you push it can be said to be "atheistic"

Same difference. I just use Anti Theistic rather then atheistic.

if you push it can be said to be "atheistic" but then so is every other belief in science.

NOTHING in science is atheistic because there is not a shred of evidence to prove that there is no God and there is Scientific Evidence to prove there is a God. So NONE of science is atheistic. We have a covenant relationship with God. So if we do our part of the covenant then you can be 100 assured that God will do His part. So the Bible is very testable, you just have to know what the promises are and how to see them forfilled in your life. Even there are many many promise books. You can run a google search for promises of God that are 100% verifiable. Or here is a web site that has a promise of God for every day of the year: http://www.365promises.com/

 

[joshua 1 9]

The fact that there never was a worldwide flood and a local flood would have made the Ark superfluous is easier to understand. Perhaps you should start there.

This is as good of a place as any to start: AT the beginning and this is a subject I have studied for over 50 years now. Even now my ancient history teacher has gone onto his reward. He lived to be 100 years old and God used him in a mighty and a powerful way.

First of all you have to understand the Neolithic Revolution. Lots and Lots and Lots of study has gone into how the WORLD transformed from Hunter Gathers to Food Producers. Noah played a vital part in all of this. We know that Farming spread to Europe from the Middle East. Just as the Bible says Adam was the first man to till the land. If you know anything about evolution then you know that there is a difference between natural selection and artificial selection or selective breeding in plants and animals. MAN, not the wind or the natural elements carried farming to the world. Just as the Story of Noah in the Bible informs us in a way that seems to be beyond you to understand or comprehend. All the evidence indicates to me that you do not want to know.

I have shared this with you before. I can not go on to teach you more if you have not grasped what I have already told you. We need to know the story of the Ark because in Noah's day the world was cleansed by water. People mocked Noah and yet he continued to preach righteousness for 120 years. Today just as much as in the day of Noah people need to be on the Ark, only now we need to prepare for when God will cleanse this world with Fire. (earth, water, air, and fire) "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare." (2Pet3:10)

Matt 24:37 As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. 39 And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will be the coming of the Son of Man.…

There is a Pinnacle and God does have a place He is going with all of this. You may not know where you came from or where you are going. But we know because the story from the beginning to the end is in the Bible.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Same difference. I just use Anti Theistic rather then atheistic.

But it isn't. You need to learn the difference. Also "same difference" is almost always used incorrectly. You should have said "same thing".

NOTHING in science is atheistic because there is not a shred of evidence to prove that there is no God and there is Scientific Evidence to prove there is a God. So NONE of science is atheistic. We have a covenant relationship with God. So if we do our part of the covenant then you can be 100 assured that God will do His part. So the Bible is very testable, you just have to know what the promises are and how to see them forfilled in your life. Even there are many many promise books. You can run a google search for promises of God that are 100% verifiable. Or here is a web site that has a promise of God for every day of the year: http://www.365promises.com/

Wrong again. Everything in science is atheistic. You need to learn the meaning of words that you use. No one invokes God when they explain gravity. It works without him. It is atheistic.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This is as good of a place as any to start: AT the beginning and this is a subject I have studied for over 50 years now. Even now my ancient history teacher has gone onto his reward. He lived to be 100 years old and God used him in a mighty and a powerful way.

Time of study does not matter if you base your beliefs upon a false premise. If your beliefs were correct you should be able to support them with valid evidence, so far you have failed to do that.

First of all you have to understand the Neolithic Revolution. Lots and Lots and Lots of study has gone into how the WORLD transformed from Hunter Gathers to Food Producers. Noah played a vital part in all of this. We know that Farming spread to Europe from the Middle East. Just as the Bible says Adam was the first man to till the land. If you know anything about evolution then you know that there is a difference between natural selection and artificial selection or selective breeding in plants and animals. MAN, not the wind or the natural elements carried farming to the world. Just as the Story of Noah in the Bible informs us in a way that seems to be beyond you to understand or comprehend. All the evidence indicates to me that you do not want to know.

Please, you can't understand it yourself. You immediately shot yourself in the foot by pretending that Noah was a real character. He is just a member in a myth. Once again you seem to run away from the science of this because you have nothing.

I have shared this with you before. I can not go on to teach you more if you have not grasped what I have already told you. We need to know the story of the Ark because in Noah's day the world was cleansed by water. People mocked Noah and yet he continued to preach righteousness for 120 years. Today just as much as in the day of Noah people need to be on the Ark, only now we need to prepare for when God will cleanse this world with Fire. (earth, water, air, and fire) "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare." (2Pet3:10)

You can't teach anyone anything when you start out with nonsense like that. Would you like to learn or are you afraid of knowledge?

Matt 24:37 As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. 39 And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will be the coming of the Son of Man.…

There is a Pinnacle and God does have a place He is going with all of this. You may not know where you came from or where you are going. But we know because the story from the beginning to the end is in the Bible.

Still on the Noah nonsense. And no, there is no "pinnacle" to evolution. You only show your ignorance of science by trying to make this claim. Again, forget the myths. Let's discuss the science.[/quote][/quote]

 

[joshua 1 9]

Time of study does not matter if you base your beliefs upon a false premise. If your beliefs were correct you should be able to support them with valid evidence, so far you have failed to do that.

Nothing could be further from the truth. I constantly provide evidence. You just ignore any evidence that does not support what you have already decided you want to believe. You are not willing to go where the evidence takes you and that makes you an enemy of science. It is very sad, but like a duck we just let the water run off our back and keep going.

Matt10:14
"if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words,
shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town."

nonsense like that

I have two years of credits as at the State College and Two years at the Bible college. What I say is NOT nonsense. What is nonsense is grown adults that can not demonstrate that they know enough Bible to test out and qualify for the third grade.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You immediately shot yourself in the foot by pretending that Noah was a real character.

You shoot yourself in the foot when you do not accept the literal interpretation of the Bible. Because then you will not properly know now to apply the teaching to your life today in this day and age. Do a google search and do a study on HOW to interpret the Bible. If you do not know HOW to interpret the Bible don't fool yourself into thinking you know what the Bible says. The story of Noah is designed for Children and for Adults. I can assure you that the people we read about in the Bible are real historical people. Oh sure they take the status of a Legend but that does not make them any less real. Daniel Boone had the status of a Legend but that does not make him any less real as a person. Just because people are Folk Heros does not make them any less real as people.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nothing could be further from the truth. I constantly provide evidence. You just ignore any evidence that does not support what you have already decided you want to believe. You are not willing to go where the evidence takes you and that makes you an enemy of science. It is very sad, but like a duck we just let the water run off our back and keep going.

Matt10:14
"if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words,
shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town."

I have two years of credits as at the State College and Two years at the Bible college. What I say is NOT nonsense. What is nonsense is grown adults that can not demonstrate that they know enough Bible to test out and qualify for the third grade.

Wrong again. You have yet to give one lick of evidence. Your money you spent appears to have been wasted since you do not seem to understand the simple concept of reliable evidence. All that you can do is to give circular reasoning and your poor interpretations of the Bible. I can help you with the concept of evidence.

No knowledge of the Bible is needed to "test out and qualify for the third grade" so by your rather poor logic everyone is well educated. By the way I have listened to your words. You have only demonstrated your lack of knowledge and nothing else. The Bible tells you not to make false accusations against others. I suggest that you heed your book in this regard.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You shoot yourself in the foot when you do not accept the literal interpretation of the Bible. Because then you will not properly know now to apply the teaching to your life today in this day and age. Do a google search and do a study on HOW to interpret the Bible. If you do not know HOW to interpret the Bible don't fool yourself into thinking you know what the Bible says. The story of Noah is designed for Children and for Adults. I can assure you that the people we read about in the Bible are real historical people. Oh sure they take the status of a Legend but that does not make them any less real. Daniel Boone had the status of a Legend but that does not make him any less real as a person. Just because people are Folk Heros does not make them any less real as people.

And wrong again. A literal interpretation of the Bible was shown to be wrong hundreds of years ago. By attempting to interpret the Bible literally you only show that you cannot properly interpret the Bible. It does not matter how many years you went to college in this matter. Interpretations that attempt to make myths real have to fail.

And yes, Daniel Boone is both myth and real, but that is a poor example. There is ample evidence that he really existed. You would have done better to compare Noah to Ichabod Crane.

 

[joshua 1 9]

No knowledge of the Bible is needed to "test out and qualify for the third grade"

I am talking about Bible school where you go to learn about the Bible. By your own standard you know nothing about the Bible because you would test out at a very low grade level of understanding. If you want to a doctor and he only had a third grade education would that be a good doctor for you to trust with your life? Just apply the exact same standard to theology that you apply to Science and Doctors.

If there is a question then we can arrange a contest between you and our third grade Bible students to see who has more knowledge of the Bible. You or them. Do you know as much as a third grader knows about the Bible?

 

[joshua 1 9]

There is ample evidence that he really existed.

There is ample scientific evidence that Noah and Adam existed also. Science tells us that there is always a first. We know that there was a first man that plowed the land. The Bible tells us his name is Adam. The only difference is that Science can not tell you the name of the person that first plowed the land. They only know that this happened 6,000 years ago in the Futile Crescent in the Tigris Euphrates River Valley. The Bible is the one that gives this man a name.

 

[Astrophile]

I can assure you that the people we read about in the Bible are real historical people. Oh sure they take the status of a Legend but that does not make them any less real. Daniel Boone had the status of a Legend but that does not make him any less real as a person. Just because people are Folk Heros does not make them any less real as people.

I know that this is off the topic of the pinnacle of evolution, but have you got any evidence that Adam, Noah, Moses, Joshua and David and Solomon were any more real than Hercules, Achilles, Helen of Troy, Aeneas, Romulus and Remus, or King Arthur?

 

[Astrophile]

the Futile Crescent

This really did make me laugh out loud!

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am talking about Bible school where you go to learn about the Bible. By your own standard you know nothing about the Bible because you would test out at a very low grade level of understanding. If you want to a doctor and he only had a third grade education would that be a good doctor for you to trust with your life? Just apply the exact same standard to theology that you apply to Science and Doctors.

Not quite. The problem is that the Bible clearly makes errant claims. Once again we know that Noah was a myth,Bible or no Bible, know that Adam and Eve were myths Bible or no Bible. Your times was largely wasted because you forces yourself into a false education. When that happens it does not matter how much expertise a person has on what the Bible says.

If there is a question then we can arrange a contest between you and our third grade Bible students to see who has more knowledge of the Bible. You or them. Do you know as much as a third grader knows about the Bible?

Probably. I may no more. Do your third graders know of any failed prophecies? I do. Do your third graders no of errors in the Bible? I do. Odds are that you will not use a valid scale for scoring.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is ample scientific evidence that Noah and Adam existed also. Science tells us that there is always a first. We know that there was a first man that plowed the land. The Bible tells us his name is Adam. The only difference is that Science can not tell you the name of the person that first plowed the land. They only know that this happened 6,000 years ago in the Futile Crescent in the Tigris Euphrates River Valley. The Bible is the one that gives this man a name.

Wrong. You have no idea what scientific evidence is if you make that claim. There never were only two people in at any time during man's time on Earth. The population never got down to eight as one reads in the Noah myth.

You do not even seem to know what scientific evidence is. Here is one question, could that evidence have shown that you were wrong about Adam? If not you don't have scientific evidence.