The Early Church is the Catholic Church

[samir]

We call it canon today, they called it scripture then and they knew who wrote scripture.

A canon is a list of books. Scripture refers to the books themselves. If the apostles knew which books were scripture, why didn't they tell anyone? If they had told those they appointed to lead the churches, there wouldn't have been a dispute regarding which books were scripture. There wouldn't have been bishops accepting Hermas and the Apocalypse of Peter as scripture while rejecting the books of Hebrews, Jude, and Revelation.

 

[samir]

Are you suggesting that the New Testament is not the inspired word of God but a "gift" of the Roman Catholic Church? Please tell me that is not what you are trying to say. If not, then where the heck are you going with this?

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Of course not! I believe the New Testament is inspired scripture. I'm simply saying Timothy did not know it from infancy because it wasn't written yet so Paul was clearly referring to the Old Testament that made him wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus because of the prophesies pointing to Jesus. I wasn't really going anywhere because I don't know why you posted it.

"from infancy you have known the Old Testament, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work"

 

[StanJ]

A canon is a list of books. Scripture refers to the books themselves. If the apostles knew which books were scripture, why didn't they tell anyone? If they had told those they appointed to lead the churches, there wouldn't have been a dispute regarding which books were scripture. There wouldn't have been bishops accepting Hermas and the Apocalypse of Peter as scripture while rejecting the books of Hebrews, Jude, and Revelation.

You're assuming they didn't tell anybody. Paul is writing all the time and was telling people to use his letters as a way to run the local churches. He never once said that there was to be an overseer for more than one local. What we have today as our Canon of scripture is what we have and those much closer to the situation than you or I decided what it should be and I have no problem with that.

 

[samir]

This is not about "Sola scriptura " (if it is not in the bible the it dosent count). It is an issue of "anti scripture" (the tradition or teaching contradicts scripture). Do you understand the difference?

Not sure exactly what you're saying. I realize your post wasn't about sola scriptura but I'd think knowing which books are scripture is kinda important if you want to base your faith on scripture alone. For example, you couldn't claim purgatory wasn't in God's word if you didn't know whether you had all of God's word.

If not, I can provide numerous examples of Roman Catholic teachings and practices that goes completely against the bible

One example would be sufficient. I heard dozens of Protestants say the same thing and provide long lists of examples but every one of them was either a misrepresentation of catholic teaching or didn't go against the bible so I prefer quality over quantity.

 

[samir]

You're assuming they didn't tell anybody.

The fact that Christians didn't know which books were scripture 300 years later kind of confirms that. If they told those they appointed bishops in the churches then why didn't those bishops know which books were scripture?

Paul is writing all the time and was telling people to use his letters as a way to run the local churches. He never once said that there was to be an overseer for more than one local. What we have today as our Canon of scripture is what we have and those much closer to the situation than you or I decided what it should be and I have no problem with that.

Paul's epistles (with the exception of Hebrews which may not have been written by Paul) were accepted early on but there were 15 other books that were disputed and that's not including the deuterocanonicals.

They decided on a canon with 73 books. Does your bible contain the same books?

 

[keltoi]

Not sure exactly what you're saying. I realize your post wasn't about sola scriptura but I'd think knowing which books are scripture is kinda important if you want to base your faith on scripture alone. For example, you couldn't claim purgatory wasn't in God's word if you didn't know whether you had all of God's word.

Can you provide references to purgatory from the RCC Bible?

One example would be sufficient. I heard dozens of Protestants say the same thing and provide long lists of examples but every one of them was either a misrepresentation of catholic teaching or didn't go against the bible so I prefer quality over quantity.

That sentence is the wrong way about. It should read you have heard dozens of catholics say the same thing and provide long lists of examples but everyone of them was either a misrepresentation of the Bible or it didn't agree with the Bible so I prefer the Bible.

 

[keltoi]

The fact that Christians didn't know which books were scripture 300 years later kind of confirms that. If they told those they appointed bishops in the churches then why didn't those bishops know which books were scripturet?

Where does the Bible say that the apostles appointed bishops?

Paul's epistles (with the exception of Hebrews which may not have been written by Paul) were accepted early on but there were 15 other books that were disputed and that's not including the deuterocanonicals.

Who disputed them Man or God?

They decided on a canon with 73 books.

How do you know they were correct?

Does your bible contain the same books?

Nope, why should it?

 

[StanJ]

The fact that Christians didn't know which books were scripture 300 years later kind of confirms that. If they told those they appointed bishops in the churches then why didn't those bishops know which books were scripturet?

Did you not read the link I posted earlier?


https://bible.org/question/how-did-we-get-our-bible-who-wrote-it-and-who-decided-what-order-put-it

 

[StanJ]

One example would be sufficient. I heard dozens of Protestants say the same thing and provide long lists of examples but every one of them was either a misrepresentation of catholic teaching or didn't go against the bible so I prefer quality over quantity.

For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Tim 2:6
Priests have no power to mediate or forgive sins in confession.

 

[prodromos]

Did you not read the link I posted earlier?


https://bible.org/question/how-did-we-get-our-bible-who-wrote-it-and-who-decided-what-order-put-it

Did you read it? It seems to support what he has been saying. Until the ruling made by the 3rd century Church Council not all of the books were unanimously recognised as being canon

 

[prodromos]

For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Tim 2:6
Priests have no power to mediate or forgive sins in confession.

So what authority was Jesus 'actually' giving His Apostles in John 20:22-23?

And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld."​

 

[keltoi]

So what authority was Jesus 'actually' giving His Apostles in John 20:22-23?

And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld."​

When did Christ breath on the pope so he could do the same thing?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Not sure exactly what you're saying. I realize your post wasn't about sola scriptura but I'd think knowing which books are scripture is kinda important if you want to base your faith on scripture alone. For example, you couldn't claim purgatory wasn't in God's word if you didn't know whether you had all of God's word.



One example would be sufficient. I heard dozens of Protestants say the same thing and provide long lists of examples but every one of them was either a misrepresentation of catholic teaching or didn't go against the bible so I prefer quality over quantity.

Here is one of many.

1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,"

Yet Mary is the mediatrix.

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[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Not sure exactly what you're saying. I realize your post wasn't about sola scriptura but I'd think knowing which books are scripture is kinda important if you want to base your faith on scripture alone. For example, you couldn't claim purgatory wasn't in God's word if you didn't know whether you had all of God's word.

Before I answer this question I will ask you, which books in the bible do you believe are not the words of God and therefore should not have ever been included?

In regards to purgatory, it is not an issue of "it is no in the bible therefore it cannot exist". Rather, there are numerous scriptures that completely reject the idea of purgatory. Thus, if purgatory does exist, those scriptures are wrong? So which is it?

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[Thursday]

God, how many time do you have to be told?
Whatever! You are denying God's part in the Bible and giving to the RCC.

I am doing no such thing. I'm pointing out the historical fact that the Catholic Church compiled the books of the New Testament. If you believe that the Church is the body of Christ then of course it was through the Holy Spirit that the body of Christ was able to do this. However, the NT didn't just fall out of the sky, it was created by the Catholic Church.

 

[Thursday]

Here is one of many.

1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,"

Yet Mary is the mediatrix.

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The bible encourages us to pray for each other. Does that make us mediators?

 

[Thursday]

When did Christ breath on the pope so he could do the same thing?

Jesus gave the apostles the authority to bind and loose. They gave this authority, which was given to them, to their successors. Jesus promised to be with his Church until the end of the world. Do you believe that he is?

 

[Thursday]

For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Tim 2:6
Priests have no power to mediate or forgive sins in confession.

As the Father sent me, I am sending you...

 

[Thursday]

We call it canon today, they called it scripture then and they knew who wrote scripture.

That quote wasn't talking about scripture. In fact, when Paul wrote that letter much of the New Testament was yet to be written.

The traditions of the Church are part of the revelation of God to man through Jesus and the apostles.

 

[prodromos]

When did Christ breath on the pope so he could do the same thing?

I'm not Catholic. I am not arguing for the papacy. How do you interpret John 20:22-23?
Do you agree with StanJ's interpretation of 1 Timothy 2:5 in light of the above passage?