POLL: Did the ancient Hebrews believe that the earth was flat?

[yeshuasavedme]

I have to take care of my chickens, but I will try to catch up...this is going too fast.

 

[rakovsky]

They could say "globe", for world, translated from tebel. Strong does give globe as one meaning of tebel.
Would have saved some confusion if they had.
Yes, in the final battle in the DSS, the war spans the globe.

What translation of the DSS says "globe"?
Because if you just reply that DSS says "Tebel" in Hebrew, then you are only begging the question of what Tebel means in the first place.

Strong's says:
From yabal; the earth (as moist and therefore inhabited); by extension, the globe; by implication

In other words, Strong's translators read it as earth due to its flow of water, and thus since the translators see the earth as a globe, they say that "by extension" or "implication" it means what the translators call the globe.

But the word does not, strictly speaking, mean a "round globe", but simply earth, which can mean either ground or the planet earth.

Here is what the Jewish Encyclopedia says:

According to a rabbinical interpretation, the earth has four names, "ereẒ," "tebel," "adamah," and "arḳa,"
In Hebrew, "heaven and earth" together constitute the universe. The earth has foundations and pillars (I Sam. ii. 8; Ps. lxxv. 4, civ. 5; Job ix. 6, xxxviii. 6); it rests on the ocean, out of which it rises (Ps. xxiv. 2, cxxxvi. 6); it is suspended in space (Job xxvi. 7); the idea of its free suspension in the air is especially worked out in the mystical "Book of Creation" (Sefer Yeẓirah). Like most peoples of antiquity, the Hebrews conceived of the earth as a disk (Prov. viii. 27; Job xxvi. 10; Isa. xl. 22); and they spoke, therefore, of peoples like the Assyrians, Egyptians, Persians, and Medes as living at the ends of the earth (see Gesenius, Commentary on Isaiah, i. 247). As Ezekiel (v. 5) could describe the Israelites as being set in the "midst of the nations," so also could he speak of their land as being the "navel of the earth" (xxxviii. 12, Hebr.); for Palestine in fact occupied a central position as regards Assyria and Egypt, the two chief powers of antiquity. In later times, indeed, it was positively asserted that Palestine, or Zion, was the physical center of the earth (Enoch, xxvi. 1, 2; Book of Jubilees, viii.);
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5394-earth​

Thus, the Jewish Encyclopedia does not see "tebel" as meaning round "globe", but simply "earth", which was part of the concept of the planet being a flat "disk".

The earth disk

 

[yeshuasavedme]

In the Book of Enoch, chapter 77, Enoch sees the outstretched "breadth of the earth" in the heavenly realm and describes the four quarters of earth and their extensions, there.
East means "first", as Enoch said. West means "diminshed"

"The Four Quarters of the Earth

77 And the first quarter is called the east, because it is the first: and the second, the south, because the Most High will descend there, yea, there in quite a special sense will He who is blessed for ever descend. 2And the west quarter is named the diminished, because there all the luminaries of the heaven wane and go down. 3And the fourth quarter, named the north, is divided into three parts: the first of them is for the dwelling of men: and the second contains seas of water, and the abysses and forests and rivers, and darkness and clouds; and the third part contains the garden of righteousness."

 

[yeshuasavedme]

...

 

[yeshuasavedme]

But the word does not, strictly speaking, mean a "round globe", but simply earth, which can mean either ground or the planet earth
...
Here is what the Jewish Encyclopedia says:

According to a rabbinical interpretation, the earth has four names, "ereẒ," "tebel," "adamah," and "arḳa,"...
In Hebrew, "heaven and earth" together constitute the universe. The earth has foundations and pillars....​

Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam, was taken on a tour of the entire creation. Enoch said the winds are the pillars of the earth. The winds are super electromagnetic powers of creation, and they hold the heavens and the earth in their places and bring the stars in and out of their seasons of appearing. They alos connect the sun and moon, and they "keep faith" with one another, as Enoch wrote.
In the Bible, earth is not a planet, which means wanderer. Earth does not wander, rotate, revolve, spin nor tilt.
In the Bible, planets are called "wandering stars", and earth is not a wandering star.
In the Bible, the heavens and earth are created of a piece, on day one, and the light is called out of the darkness and divided from the darkness and set revolving around the globe of waters, with evening and morning making one "Day"...
The firmament of His powers is stretched out between the divided in two waters of creation on day two, and half is above the stretched out firmament and half below. They are still above and below the firmament of His powers.
God named the firmament of His powers "Two Waters/Sha Mayim"....but the earth was a globe of waters below, and not yet named, til day three.
On day three, God commanded the waters below the stretched out heavens to be gathered together in one place, and the "dry" to appear [and the light was stretched out with the heavens, from the earth].
God called the "Dry" "earth", and the waters He called "seas".
Earth was not hot, molten, nor was it mud. It was dry, and it was formed out of the waters below. There was a tremendous amount of waters of creation, and all the elements for all that would be created for this earth and it's stretched out realm [the stories of heavens which are the "breadth of the earth" in which is Paradise/God's Garden] were given their forms from the elements created in the waters, by the powers of God's Holy Spirit who "brooded over the waters" of the globe, energizing the waters for the elements to be brought forth into every created thing God brought out of them in the 6 days of creation.

The entire creation was created in six days. and the heavens are stretched out between the tremendous amount of waters of creation, and the "dry" -which includes all the earth's "dry" elements which were formed out of the waters, and in the waters- did not exist as "dry" but only in the elements of the waters of creation, until day three.
The heavens were named when they were stretched out -day two.
The earth was named when the "dry" was called into being out of the gathered together waters.
The gathered together waters were not named until they were gathered together, and named seas, on day three.

The sun and moon was not made until day four. Thew sun and moon were named on day 4. The sun is a Menorrah, and the stars pour the light of day one into it by super connections of electromagnetic powers, and the sun refracts the light out, as a governor of it, to all the creation.

That's just what the Word of God states.
The stars are angels, and serve the creation as named in Genesis....and are not gigantic burning furnaces, but are they are points of the powers of the heavens, gathered together in units that serve as signs and holy seasons, for earth below.

The heavens revolve around the globe, and the sun and moon and stars have their own peculiar paths in the heavens, to keep the days and seasons and years...
The first chapter of Genesis tells us these things.
If one denies these things, then who can help them understand God's creation?

 

[miamited]

Good morning rakovsky,

You asked:

Would you be able to please explain how use see a spherical earth being referred to literally or metaphorically as "being stretched out"?

I did give an example of a basketball and a balloon. Now my explanation explains it as putting air inside the object, but the same effect can be gained by creating a vacuum on the outside of the object.

It sounds like you are saying that the earth is above the waters in the sense that it is at a higher elevation and that earth means ground, or dirt surface. i understand, because even in English, earth can mean ground, as in "the drill dug into a thousand feet of earth (ground)".

Well, just as you are now in discussion concerning what the best translation for the Hebrew word that is translated as 'stretch' might be (This is always a concern when translating from one language to another. Just as Strong's might give you 3 or 4 words that are similar in English to what the Hebrew might mean, there are slight nuances of difference between many of the possibilities. The translator has to decide in his own mind which one he thinks might be best without having the ability to actually question the author and be sure.) We must first decide what is the best translation of the Hebrew word translated as 'over' before we can even get to what it might mean for the earth to be over the waters.

I remember a study done on the word translated as 'soon' in the Revelation. The word can also mean 'quickly'. One can come quickly, but it may not be soon. Quickly generally means with great speed. Such as the car ran quickly around the track. So, we have to decide without any help from the author whether he meant to say that Jesus would be coming back in the near time, or that Jesus, when he comes back, will come quickly. Having now seen the actual evidence of the reality that Jesus has not come back now for about 2,000 years, quickly may well have been the intended meaning. How do we really know, though?

Soon in God's time could be several thousand years. However, I'm of a mind that God caused the Scriptures to be written to man in terms that man could understand. I don't believe that God wrote to man, especially as regards prophetic events, and set times as understood by Him versus how time would be understood by man. So, we go through the various translations of the Scriptures and we find that some translators translated the passage as soon, and some translated it as quickly. How do we know which term is correct? In this type of discernment in translating work we are always left to the mercy of the translators choice unless we do some prayerful research for ourselves.

My only issue with this particular subject that we have been discussing is as I've said earlier. We know that the earth is not flat! We know that! There is no question of that reality of truth. So, if we're going to say that the Scriptures describe the earth as flat, then there are only a couple of options available to us as to why this would be.

1) the Scriptures are in error. Now, I'm one to believe that the author of the Scriptures is God and He doesn't make mistakes or speak things that are not true.

2) the earth at the time of these writings was flat, but has since changed its physical form. Not a likely scenario.

3) we are misunderstanding the intention of meaning of the author. Most probably what's happening.

You are defining the term 'stretch' by imagining to take in your hands, or by some machine, an object and stretching it out with a pulling maneuver that would cause the object to flatten as it stretches. But God's hands are bigger than yours or mine. I believe that God can stretch 3 dimensional forms out so that they become larger and still retain their 3 dimensional form. I believe that when God stretches something out that it doesn't have to become thinner and longer necessarily, but that He can stretch things out and they still retain their form. That His use of the word 'stretch', and again we must first decide if that is even the intended understanding of the Hebrew word, is only to let us know that the object got bigger. Maybe I'm wrong on this point. There's really no way of knowing. However, I'm not wrong that the earth is not flat and so I'm left to decide which of the possibilities that such a reality might mean in conjunction with the passages in question. My understanding is that God intended to tell us that the object just got bigger and not sit and reflect that, "Well, if I stretch something it goes flat." We are thus pitting what is possible for a man to do versus what is possible for God to do. God can stretch out the heavens and all the stars and other heavenly bodies that comprise the heavens retain their original size and shape as He stretches them out. Now, you may likely think that such an understanding is a 'stretch'. Your understanding of my 'stretch' is that it is flat because it's a 'stretch'.

You see, the same word can have some fairly different meanings in what it conveys depending on the intent of the speaker and often times the understanding of the context. Before I begin any rigorous exercise (like that's ever going to happen), I'm encouraged to 'stretch' my body and muscles. Sadly, my abdomen never goes flat when I 'stretch'.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[rakovsky]

Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam, was taken on a tour of the entire creation. Enoch said the winds are the pillars of the earth. The winds are super electromagnetic powers of creation, and they hold the heavens and the earth in their places and bring the stars in and out of their seasons of appearing. They alos connect the sun and moon, and they "keep faith" with one another, as Enoch wrote.
In the Bible, earth is not a planet, which means wanderer. Earth does not wander, rotate, revolve, spin nor tilt.
In the Bible, planets are called "wandering stars", and earth is not a wandering star.
In the Bible, the heavens and earth are created of a piece, on day one, and the light is called out of the darkness and divided from the darkness and set revolving around the globe of waters, with evening and morning making one "Day"...
The firmament of His powers is stretched out between the divided in two waters of creation on day two, and half is above the stretched out firmament and half below. They are still above and below the firmament of His powers.
God named the firmament of His powers "Two Waters/Sha Mayim"....but the earth was a globe of waters below, and not yet named, til day three.
On day three, God commanded the waters below the stretched out heavens to be gathered together in one place, and the "dry" to appear [and the light was stretched out with the heavens, from the earth].
God called the "Dry" "earth", and the waters He called "seas".
Earth was not hot, molten, nor was it mud. It was dry, and it was formed out of the waters below. There was a tremendous amount of waters of creation, and all the elements for all that would be created for this earth and it's stretched out realm [the stories of heavens which are the "breadth of the earth" in which is Paradise/God's Garden] were given their forms from the elements created in the waters, by the powers of God's Holy Spirit who "brooded over the waters" of the globe, energizing the waters for the elements to be brought forth into every created thing God brought out of them in the 6 days of creation.

The entire creation was created in six days. and the heavens are stretched out between the tremendous amount of waters of creation, and the "dry" -which includes all the earth's "dry" elements which were formed out of the waters, and in the waters- did not exist as "dry" but only in the elements of the waters of creation, until day three.
The heavens were named when they were stretched out -day two.
The earth was named when the "dry" was called into being out of the gathered together waters.
The gathered together waters were not named until they were gathered together, and named seas, on day three.

The sun and moon was not made until day four. Thew sun and moon were named on day 4. The sun is a Menorrah, and the stars pour the light of day one into it by super connections of electromagnetic powers, and the sun refracts the light out, as a governor of it, to all the creation.

That's just what the Word of God states.
The stars are angels, and serve the creation as named in Genesis....and are not gigantic burning furnaces, but are they are points of the powers of the heavens, gathered together in units that serve as signs and holy seasons, for earth below.

The heavens revolve around the globe, and the sun and moon and stars have their own peculiar paths in the heavens, to keep the days and seasons and years...
The first chapter of Genesis tells us these things.
If one denies these things, then who can help them understand God's creation?

Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam, was taken on a tour of the entire creation. Enoch said the winds are the pillars of the earth. The winds are super electromagnetic powers of creation, and they hold the heavens and the earth in their places and bring the stars in and out of their seasons of appearing. They alos connect the sun and moon, and they "keep faith" with one another, as Enoch wrote.
In the Bible, earth is not a planet, which means wanderer. Earth does not wander, rotate, revolve, spin nor tilt.
In the Bible, planets are called "wandering stars", and earth is not a wandering star.
In the Bible, the heavens and earth are created of a piece, on day one, and the light is called out of the darkness and divided from the darkness and set revolving around the globe of waters, with evening and morning making one "Day"...
The firmament of His powers is stretched out between the divided in two waters of creation on day two, and half is above the stretched out firmament and half below. They are still above and below the firmament of His powers.
God named the firmament of His powers "Two Waters/Sha Mayim"....but the earth was a globe of waters below, and not yet named, til day three.
On day three, God commanded the waters below the stretched out heavens to be gathered together in one place, and the "dry" to appear [and the light was stretched out with the heavens, from the earth].
God called the "Dry" "earth", and the waters He called "seas".
Earth was not hot, molten, nor was it mud. It was dry, and it was formed out of the waters below. There was a tremendous amount of waters of creation, and all the elements for all that would be created for this earth and it's stretched out realm [the stories of heavens which are the "breadth of the earth" in which is Paradise/God's Garden] were given their forms from the elements created in the waters, by the powers of God's Holy Spirit who "brooded over the waters" of the globe, energizing the waters for the elements to be brought forth into every created thing God brought out of them in the 6 days of creation.

The entire creation was created in six days. and the heavens are stretched out between the tremendous amount of waters of creation, and the "dry" -which includes all the earth's "dry" elements which were formed out of the waters, and in the waters- did not exist as "dry" but only in the elements of the waters of creation, until day three.
The heavens were named when they were stretched out -day two.
The earth was named when the "dry" was called into being out of the gathered together waters.
The gathered together waters were not named until they were gathered together, and named seas, on day three.

The sun and moon was not made until day four. Thew sun and moon were named on day 4. The sun is a Menorrah, and the stars pour the light of day one into it by super connections of electromagnetic powers, and the sun refracts the light out, as a governor of it, to all the creation.

That's just what the Word of God states.
The stars are angels, and serve the creation as named in Genesis....and are not gigantic burning furnaces, but are they are points of the powers of the heavens, gathered together in units that serve as signs and holy seasons, for earth below.

The heavens revolve around the globe, and the sun and moon and stars have their own peculiar paths in the heavens, to keep the days and seasons and years...
The first chapter of Genesis tells us these things.
If one denies these things, then who can help them understand God's creation?

The book of Enoch does not seem to have a scientific cosmology.
http://testingtheglobe.com/enoch.html

 

[rakovsky]

Good morning rakovsky,

You asked:


I did give an example of a basketball and a balloon. Now my explanation explains it as putting air inside the object, but the same effect can be gained by creating a vacuum on the outside of the object.



Well, just as you are now in discussion concerning what the best translation for the Hebrew word that is translated as 'stretch' might be (This is always a concern when translating from one language to another. Just as Strong's might give you 3 or 4 words that are similar in English to what the Hebrew might mean, there are slight nuances of difference between many of the possibilities. The translator has to decide in his own mind which one he thinks might be best without having the ability to actually question the author and be sure.) We must first decide what is the best translation of the Hebrew word translated as 'over' before we can even get to what it might mean for the earth to be over the waters.

I remember a study done on the word translated as 'soon' in the Revelation. The word can also mean 'quickly'. One can come quickly, but it may not be soon. Quickly generally means with great speed. Such as the car ran quickly around the track. So, we have to decide without any help from the author whether he meant to say that Jesus would be coming back in the near time, or that Jesus, when he comes back, will come quickly. Having now seen the actual evidence of the reality that Jesus has not come back now for about 2,000 years, quickly may well have been the intended meaning. How do we really know, though?

Soon in God's time could be several thousand years. However, I'm of a mind that God caused the Scriptures to be written to man in terms that man could understand. I don't believe that God wrote to man, especially as regards prophetic events, and set times as understood by Him versus how time would be understood by man. So, we go through the various translations of the Scriptures and we find that some translators translated the passage as soon, and some translated it as quickly. How do we know which term is correct? In this type of discernment in translating work we are always left to the mercy of the translators choice unless we do some prayerful research for ourselves.

My only issue with this particular subject that we have been discussing is as I've said earlier. We know that the earth is not flat! We know that! There is no question of that reality of truth. So, if we're going to say that the Scriptures describe the earth as flat, then there are only a couple of options available to us as to why this would be.

1) the Scriptures are in error. Now, I'm one to believe that the author of the Scriptures is God and He doesn't make mistakes or speak things that are not true.

2) the earth at the time of these writings was flat, but has since changed its physical form. Not a likely scenario.

3) we are misunderstanding the intention of meaning of the author. Most probably what's happening.

You are defining the term 'stretch' by imagining to take in your hands, or by some machine, an object and stretching it out with a pulling maneuver that would cause the object to flatten as it stretches. But God's hands are bigger than yours or mine. I believe that God can stretch 3 dimensional forms out so that they become larger and still retain their 3 dimensional form. I believe that when God stretches something out that it doesn't have to become thinner and longer necessarily, but that He can stretch things out and they still retain their form. That His use of the word 'stretch', and again we must first decide if that is even the intended understanding of the Hebrew word, is only to let us know that the object got bigger. Maybe I'm wrong on this point. There's really no way of knowing. However, I'm not wrong that the earth is not flat and so I'm left to decide which of the possibilities that such a reality might mean in conjunction with the passages in question. My understanding is that God intended to tell us that the object just got bigger and not sit and reflect that, "Well, if I stretch something it goes flat." We are thus pitting what is possible for a man to do versus what is possible for God to do. God can stretch out the heavens and all the stars and other heavenly bodies that comprise the heavens retain their original size and shape as He stretches them out. Now, you may likely think that such an understanding is a 'stretch'. Your understanding of my 'stretch' is that it is flat because it's a 'stretch'.

You see, the same word can have some fairly different meanings in what it conveys depending on the intent of the speaker and often times the understanding of the context. Before I begin any rigorous exercise (like that's ever going to happen), I'm encouraged to 'stretch' my body and muscles. Sadly, my abdomen never goes flat when I 'stretch'.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Hello, Ted.

The Christian belief is that the Holy spirit spoke using the prophets. Now does that mean that everything a prophet is inspired to say must be factually correct? Christians are more divided on this. The prophets statements contain spiritual truth, but must that truth mean exactly what the prophet himself intended?
This gets harder to show because we see in 1 Cor 14 the spirit speaking in tongues no one understands.

Turning to the verse we discussed,

1. You are saying that stretched out means swollen or puffed out.

You are saying that the earth means the land, so you are saying that the ground and land are puffed out?


3. In what sense is the round earth or land metaphorically stretched out so that it is metaphorically above the waters?

If we say the round planet earth is swelled out above the waters, this sounds strange.

Maybe it means that the ground is expanded so that it goes higher than the oceans.... ok.

So now let's move to another verse I listed in the op, namely the one where it says that God made the world's foundations so it won't be shaken ever.

If this is a metaphor, 1. what are the foundations and how do they stop the earth from being shaken? 2. Can earthquakes and gigantic comets shake the earth?

 

[miamited]

Hi rakovsky,

You replied:

The Christian belief is that the Holy spirit spoke using the prophets. Now does that mean that everything a prophet is inspired to say must be factually correct?

Yes, I'm in the camp that believes that everything in the Scriptures is factually correct. That while the actual writing was done by the prophets, as Paul said that they wrote as they were led along by the Holy Spirit. So, the author becomes the Holy Spirit. I believe what Paul wrote to be factually correct.

You replied:

You are saying that stretched out means swollen or puffed out.

No, I am not saying that stretched out means 'swollen' or 'puffed out'. I am saying that stretched out means to make larger in an outward direction. To encompass a greater area without any effect on the physical properties of what is being stretched beyond its moving in an outward encompassing direction. The heavens being stretched out means that the planets and stars of the universe were spread out across the universe. No meaning of intent that it had anything to do with something being 'swollen', 'puffed out' or 'made flat' because of the act of stretching. It was merely made to expand in whatever way that God can make things expand to fill the universe. That's what I'm understanding when the Scriptures say that the heavens were 'stretched' out.

You replied:

You are saying that the earth means the land, so you are saying that the ground and land are puffed out?

Yes, I'm saying that the word translated as 'earth' can also mean the 'dry ground'. No, I am not saying that the ground and land are 'puffed out'. That's merely your setting your limited understanding of what 'stretch' means as the only way that it can be defined or understood. I respectfully disagree that your limited understanding of the way in which the word 'stretch' can be understood is correct. That's all.

You replied:

If we say the round planet earth is swelled out above the waters, this sounds strange.

It may sound strange to you, but that's what the new covenant says that the things of God do sound like to those without understanding.

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

Now, if I am correct that the author of the Scriptures is the Spirit of God, then those who cannot understand the things that he has caused to be written and considers them foolishness does not have the Spirit of God giving them their understanding. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit. That person considers them foolishness and 'CANNOT UNDERSTAND THEM'.

You are telling me that you believe there are places in the Scripture that portray the earth as flat. The reality that we know that we know to be true is that the earth is not, in fact, flat. What does that say about your understanding in relation to this piece of Scripture above regarding one being able to understand the things of the Spirit that come from the Spirit?

To me, it tells me that the problem here is your understanding and not the Scriptures. You are unwilling to just accept that the word 'stretch' in the Scriptures just means that something is made to encompass a broader area. You are unwilling to give up your understanding that such an eventuality must, because of the physics of things, would also mean that it becomes flatter as it is stretched. I don't have that problem. I fully understand that God's Scriptures are true and correct in all that they reveal to me about God and the physical creation which He has made. I fully understand that the word 'stretch' doesn't have to then have the added injunction that, "Well, because something is being stretched, then it must be getting flatter also." I don't add such further limitations to the word 'stretch'. Remember, the Scriptures warn us about going beyond what is written. They also warn us against leaning on our own understanding. Finally, Peter writes a dire warning to those who can't seem to understand the Scriptures.

So, if I know that I know that the earth is not flat, but my definition of a word makes me understand that the Scriptures are saying that it is, then my understanding goes against what I know to be the reality of what is. Is the reality wrong or is my understanding wrong? Could that problem in understanding be related to my not being able to just accept a word for what it says without 'adding to' some limitation that another use of the same word might mean.

The Scriptures tell us that God stretched out the heavens and that God stretched out the earth. Why is it beyond your ability to grasp that the understanding is just that God made them more encompassing without having any effect on the thickness or shape of the heavens and the earth? Do you want to know my answer?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The book of Enoch does not seem to have a scientific cosmology.
http://testingtheglobe.com/enoch.html

It is God's revelation of His heavenly orders.
Man has no idea of God's creation and it's workings and makes myths called "science" -which is not the wisdom of God.
Enoch's revelations of the heavenly orders is called "the wisdom of God".
Earth does not tilt, revolve, rotate/spin, nor move out of it's place.
The firmament of His powers circled the globe of waters from day 1, and evening and morning make one day.
The firmament of His powers were stretched out from globe of waters, between the waters, dividing them [and named two "waters/sha mayim"] on day two of creation week.

Because the heavens were stretched out from the globe, from every point on the face of the earth, the heavens are always "up".
Earth is below the heavens from every point in the stretched out heavens.

Creation is supernatural. It is upheld supernaturally, by God's wisdom.

Not only were the heavens stretched out from the earth [beat out in layers], but the heavens will collapse right back to the beginning point, and God will regenerate the heavens and the earth.

One day, the stars will fall from the heavens, and God will reset the "pillars of the earth" as He states in Psalm 2,3, in the Hebrew.
God's wisdom is foolishness to sinful man, but God's foolishness is wiser than the wisdom of foolish man.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

...

1. You are saying that stretched out means swollen or puffed out.

You are saying that the earth means the land, so you are saying that the ground and land are puffed out?


3. In what sense is the round earth or land metaphorically stretched out so that it is metaphorically above the waters?

If we say the round planet earth is swelled out above the waters, this sounds strange.

Maybe it means that the ground is expanded so that it goes higher than the oceans.... ok.

So now let's move to another verse I listed in the op, namely the one where it says that God made the world's foundations so it won't be shaken ever.

If this is a metaphor, 1. what are the foundations and how do they stop the earth from being shaken? 2. Can earthquakes and gigantic comets shake the earth?

The word is "beat out", and the heavens were "beat out" stretched out, from the earth -and earth is always down and the heavens are always up, cause it all started on this globe.
the earth also was stretched out, beat out, from and above the waters of this globe on day 3.
It's all in the Bible.

Also, the pillars of the earth and the heavens are electromagnetic super powers, called "winds". so the earth is held in it's place by God's super electromagnetic powers, and so are the heavens, and every body in the heavens has an electromagnetic path to run it's course in, and is connected to every other body in the heavens by those powers.

By the Word of God, all things are held together, and exist, and were created in and out of the waters of creation.

By the Word of God all things will be regenerated elementally, in the New Creation, and the heavens will be rolled back and the stars will fall to the earth.

 

[miamited]

Hi again rakovsky,

Now, let's once again move to the crux of the matter.

Your work here is to tell others that the Scriptures seem to infer in some places that the earth is flat. While in fact and in reality we know that it isn't. Do you think that the God you proclaim to love and believe finds your work honoring to Him? Does God find those faithful who would try to tell others that His Scriptures can't really be trusted in all that they reveal to us?

If I'm correct, and Paul is correct, about the source and author of the Scriptures, then your work is, in effect, telling others that somehow God is not as great as all that we think Him to be. Personally, I'd be fearful of doing such a thing. I'm going to be more like Jesus in this. Thy word is truth! What I can't understand that causes me to think that some parts of it aren't because of my understanding and defining of terms doesn't dilute the truth of God's word, but would show an impairment in my understanding. Well, I do fully understand that I'm a wicked man with a wicked heart with a limited understanding of the things of God. So, I'm more inclined to believe that in such a situation the problem is me and not the Scriptures.

If God did create this realm of living with all the stars and planets as the Scriptures seem to clearly describe, then does God find me a faithful servant if I work to deny that truth? Or rather is it possible that the one I'm really doing the work for is Satan? I am, by what I teach and what I proclaim, making it much, much easier for those without any understanding to say, "Oh yea. That's right! We can't trust the Scriptures. Here's a person claiming to be one of them and he right out tells me that we can't trust the Scriptures to be true in all that they tell us." He agrees with me that the Scriptures were written by men and are, therefore, about as trustworthy as the vedras or the koran. All the other writings that we have a plethora of upon the earth trying to explain to us how things really are spiritually. I'm sorry, truly, but I'm not willing to go there. I love my Father. He is dearest to my heart of all the people upon the earth. I am not going to give of my time and efforts providing ammunition for unbelievers to rest satisfied in what they believe.

But the real question. The one that you really need the answer to, is how God sees your work. Faithful or not faithful?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The word is "beat out", and the heavens were "beat out" stretched out, from the earth -and earth is always down and the heavens are always up, cause it all started on this globe.
the earth also was stretched out, beat out, from and above the waters of this globe on day 3.
It's all in the Bible.

Also, the pillars of the earth and the heavens are electromagnetic super powers, called "winds". so the earth is held in it's place by God's super electromagnetic powers, and so are the heavens, and every body in the heavens has an electromagnetic path to run it's course in, and is connected to every other body in the heavens by those powers.

By the Word of God, all things are held together, and exist, and were created in and out of the waters of creation.

By the Word of God all things will be regenerated elementally, in the New Creation, and the heavens will be rolled back and the stars will fall to the earth.

in the Tribulation:
the earth will jump about as a hunted roe
move out of its place
staggar as a drunken man
turn upside down
the seasons will be backward
the stars will fall from heaven
the sun will burn seven times hotter; and if the LORD did not cut off the "shining" of the day and nights of the year by one third of their parts, no flesh would survive on the earth, for even the moon will burn seven times hotter, then.

But this is to come about after the Church is raptured/removed from the midst of the earth to heaven/Paradise above,
and the righteous saints celebrate their consecration to the heavenly priesthood
where they will serve the Son of Man in His temple
standing before Him there
dressed in their beautiful garments/adoption body of regenerated flesh
which is made for the Glory
[which is typed in the Living Oracles in the Torah, given to the namesake people of the New Man name to rehearse
until their fulfillment]

It is God's Wisdom, given to us to know; but unrepentant, foolish man goes on in his foolishness, and dies each at his appointed time, and will stand for judgment for the deeds done in the body, before the Son of Man, in the day of their resurrection and accounting.

 

[rakovsky]

You replied:
"If we say the round planet earth is swelled out above the waters, this sounds strange."

It may sound strange to you, but that's what the new covenant says that the things of God do sound like to those without understanding.

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

Now, if I am correct that the author of the Scriptures is the Spirit of God, then those who cannot understand the things that he has caused to be written and considers them foolishness does not have the Spirit of God giving them their understanding. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit. That person considers them foolishness and 'CANNOT UNDERSTAND THEM'.

You are telling me that you believe there are places in the Scripture that portray the earth as flat. The reality that we know that we know to be true is that the earth is not, in fact, flat. What does that say about your understanding in relation to this piece of Scripture above regarding one being able to understand the things of the Spirit that come from the Spirit?

Please tell me more about how the round planet earth is swelled out or expanded above the waters, if that is your explanation.

If not please clarify,
1. Does stretched out mean expanded or swelled
2. Does the earth here refer to the planet earth or to ground.
3. In what way is the planet or soil expanded or stretched so that it is above the water.

Finally, let's move on to the other verse- what are the earth's foundations and how do they stop it from "shaking" always ? Do earthquakes count and can a comet hit the earth to shake it from its orbit?

 

[rakovsky]

Hi again rakovsky,

Now, let's once again move to the crux of the matter.

Your work here is to tell others that the Scriptures seem to infer in some places that the earth is flat. While in fact and in reality we know that it isn't. Do you think that the God you proclaim to love and believe finds your work honoring to Him? Does God find those faithful who would try to tell others that His Scriptures can't really be trusted in all that they reveal to us?

If I'm correct, and Paul is correct, about the source and author of the Scriptures, then your work is, in effect, telling others that somehow God is not as great as all that we think Him to be. Personally, I'd be fearful of doing such a thing. I'm going to be more like Jesus in this. Thy word is truth! What I can't understand that causes me to think that some parts of it aren't because of my understanding and defining of terms doesn't dilute the truth of God's word, but would show an impairment in my understanding. Well, I do fully understand that I'm a wicked man with a wicked heart with a limited understanding of the things of God. So, I'm more inclined to believe that in such a situation the problem is me and not the Scriptures.

If God did create this realm of living with all the stars and planets as the Scriptures seem to clearly describe, then does God find me a faithful servant if I work to deny that truth? Or rather is it possible that the one I'm really doing the work for is Satan? I am, by what I teach and what I proclaim, making it much, much easier for those without any understanding to say, "Oh yea. That's right! We can't trust the Scriptures. Here's a person claiming to be one of them and he right out tells me that we can't trust the Scriptures to be true in all that they tell us." He agrees with me that the Scriptures were written by men and are, therefore, about as trustworthy as the vedras or the koran. All the other writings that we have a plethora of upon the earth trying to explain to us how things really are spiritually. I'm sorry, truly, but I'm not willing to go there. I love my Father. He is dearest to my heart of all the people upon the earth. I am not going to give of my time and efforts providing ammunition for unbelievers to rest satisfied in what they believe.

But the real question. The one that you really need the answer to, is how God sees your work. Faithful or not faithful?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

If this is God's word, it's important to see how it works. A minister can share God's peace or a word of inspiration with you, but does that mean every phrase is factually correct in the speaker's intention? If a minister is inspired and tells you that God's path is as straight as highway 54 which you both know is straight, but then later it turns out that it is actually hooked, does that prove that this saying by the minister was not inspired by the holy spirit in him?

If factual inerrancy is true, how do you know this? Christians are very divided on this question.

If factual inerrancy is right, this should be reasonably defensible with the various verses.

 

[rakovsky]

This is a bit off topic Ted, but do you also think that the earth does not move around the sun like some verses suggest? Because Yeshuasavedme just said No, the earth is not a planet. He is going by the biblical verses I think.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

This is a bit off topic Ted, but do you also think that the earth does not move around the sun like some verses suggest? Because Yeshuasavedme just said No, the earth is not a planet. He is going by the biblical verses I think.

I'm a she, a great grandma, wife of one husband 53 years this year, born again in spirit, water baptized, Holy Spirit baptized, tongues speaking, singing praying, lover of the Word of God and the history of His work, from the beginning.
There are many who do not believe the fable of the earth revolving yearly around the created sun, but who believe the Word of God. Earth created, light called into being, set rotating around the earth in the circling heavens after being divided form the darkness, and stretched out heavens -all in the first two days of creation.
The sun was not made until day four, and the evenings and mornings were already four evenings, and the dawning of day four began with the sun created and set on it's peculiar path in the heavens, electromagnetically connected with the moon, for the moon follows the same parth but falls behind the sun a certain number of days pr year and begins anew on that path every 19 years, I think it is....but would have to check.

When Joshua spoke to the sun and the moon to stand still, they stood still not only that day,but did not cease to go down for a whole "day", until the battle was won.
Earth was not moving, but sun and moon were moving in the heavens. The heavens did not stand still, only the sun and moon stood still.

Then, the prophet had the sun go backwards ten degrees, as a sign to Hezikiah.. The earth did did not move, but the sun moved backwards.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

[...

 

[yeshuasavedme]

...
Hmmm this sounds like saying that English table and Hebrew tebel can be traced back to the same root, proposing that both have flat tops and are held up by pillars...

Nope. English table does not have Hebrew root etymons of "BL"; BTW: the "B" is house, enclosure, building, and the "L" is to go, to go forth, to walk -if I remember correctly.
Table is from stable, which establish, stabilize, etc, is from.
http://www.edenics.net/english-word-origins.aspx?word=STABLE
"English Word
STABLE
Edenic Word
(Hoo)TSahBH
Hebrew Word
הצב
Transliteration
Hey-Tsadi-Bhet
Pronounciation
(HOO)-TSABH
Conversion
[ TS-BH → STB]

...
...Russian stol, table, akes once suspect that STOOL and TABLE are unstable forms of STABLE from the well-grounded Edenic Tsadi-Bhet root. The Bhet or B or an older word like STABLE may have dropped out to give Russian an ST-L table and English the shorter but stable STOOL."

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The heavens were stretched out and the heavens were "beat out" from the earth, on day two -and earth is always down and the heavens are always up, cause it all started on this globe.
the earth also was stretched out and beat out, from and above the waters of this globe, on day three
It's all in the Bible.

Also, the pillars of the earth and the heavens are electromagnetic super powers, called "winds". so the earth is held in it's place by God's super electromagnetic powers, and so are the heavens, and every body in the heavens has an electromagnetic path to run it's course in, and is connected to every other body in the heavens by those powers.

By the Word of God, all things are held together, and exist, and were created in and out of the waters of creation.

By the Word of God all things will be regenerated elementally, in the New Creation, and the heavens will be rolled back and the stars will fall to the earth.