Start of a New World War

[Rick Otto]

[QUOTE="Rick Otto, post: 69587768, member: 5317"onfront] Fine.
Did you see my original post where I said it's already on?

So you're talking jibberish just in order to be confrontational, is that it ??? Stating in one post America and China are already at war, and later in another post you state "It ain't never gonna happen" ?! I wonder if you are not being deliberately obtuse, (that means "stupid"), merely for the sake of creating an argument irrespective of it's merit.

Good morning, Steve.
Nah, it's just a paradox.
War isn't confined to the traditional battlefield anymore.
Thanks for asking me so politely for clarity, though.

 

[stephen583]

Vladimir Putin threatens Denmark, Norway and Poland with nuclear attack should they join NATO's ballistic missile defense initiative, (Assoc. Press, May 4, 2016). So far, since becoming president (dictator ?) of Russia, Vladimir Putin has explicitly threatened America, NATO, Turkey, the Baltic States, Denmark, Norway and Poland with nuclear annihilation in a number of public statements. In the beginning, politicians and analysts in the West attributed these remarks to Putin pandering to the Russian public and anti-western sentiments, but in light of the recent escalation of Russian military aggression towards Turkey, in the Black Sea and Baltic Sea against U.S. air and naval forces, experts have been forced to reevaluate their earlier assessment as to how much of a threat Vladimir Putin actually represents.

Apparently Putin doesn't think using nuclear weapons would violate international morale norms against such action. How long before this megalomaniac madman actually "pulls the trigger" ??? On the basis of his own statements, and the preparations he is making to "modernize" and "deploy" more intermediate range nuclear missiles, I say we won't have to wait long to find out. The date Vladimir Putin set in his July 2015 statement, was for Russian nuclear forces to be ready to fight a war against NATO (using nuclear weapons) by 2018.


That gives us about two and a half years, before Vladimir Putin says he will be ready to unleash nuclear annihilation on his enemies. No lack of clarity there, is there ?!

 

[Caretaker]

I'm not making any moral distinction between U.S. and Chinese aggression for control of the high seas. The only point I am making is that this mutual "aggression" is escalating. The same can be said for the escalation of potentially dangerous encounters between Russian and U.S. air and naval forces in recent weeks. Russia also appears to be asserting its' control over the international waters of the Baltic and Black Seas. Russian ballistic missile submarines have also been spotted near Stockholm and in the Bay of Biscay near France, not to mention the Russian Typhoon sub that now sits off the coast of Syria in the Mediterranean Sea.

This kind of "aggressive" military posturing, is not unheard of as a "prelude" to all out conflict and war. Yes. The U.S. is absolutely bolstering it's forces against Russia, China and North Korea. Nuclear capable, F-22 fighter bombers have been forward deployed to both Europe and Asia in 2016. The U.S. is also deploying a high altitude missile defense system in South Korea, and we've also recently test launched a Minuteman missile to confirm the readiness of our ballistic missile forces.

All these things point to a very strong probability of an "impending" Third World War. The Japanese started fortifying Okinawa in 1938. Two years later, they were testing a new shallow running torpedo that could be used against ships in a port and secretly practicing for a carrier based air attack against Pearl Harbor . The rest, as they say, is history.

Given all the signs, I think that's about where we are now... Maybe two years away at most from a full scale Third World War. I believe it will be triggered when Hezbollah gets the green light to start bombarding Israel with thousands of modern Russian missiles it has stockpiled in Lebanon and Syria. The Middle East War will inevitably spill over into the Mediterranean, Black Sea and Baltic Seas. The Asian/Pacific war will come on the heels of the Mid-East/European conflict. The Chinese have a saying, "In much adversity, there is also much opportunity". All of China's highest military leaders (at our level of the Joint Chief's of Staff ) say war with the United States is inevitable. I believe it is highly probable we can expect history to repeat itself, and another Pearl Harbor like attack will occur in the Pacific during WWIII. This time it will come from China.

China formally challenged Japan's sovereignty over the Senkaku and Ryukyus islands in 2013. Japan is currently constructing a chain of missile defenses on 200 islands stretching from Kyushu to Taiwan. Okinawa is the largest island in the Ryukus' and hosts the bulk of U.S. ground, air and naval forces in Japan. Once U.S. forces in Okinawa have been eliminated, China will be able to attack U.S. bases in Guam and Hawaii and strike West Coast cities in the United States with their long range Xian H-6K bombers.

Since 2008, China has had a program to develop it's first Stealth bomber. It is unknown how many of these advanced Xian H-8 Stealth bombers the PLA Air Force currently has deployed. It would not need many however to launch a surprise nuclear attack against Okinawa and eliminate most of the U.S. forces in the South China Sea and Asia.

Are all these scenarios merely hypothetical ? Not really. To use a chess analogy, the game has already begun. The power piece sacrifice and uncovered strategy (the middle game) is about to begin. Then it's just a few more moves until it's checkmate, game over... global thermo-nuclear warfare and the extermination of all human life on this planet.

Hmmmm.... you do understand, do you not, that the US baited, goaded, and ultimately forced Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. And you are aware, are you not, that the United States not only tracked the attacking Japanese fleet across the north Pacific, but also shut down the northern Pacific shipping lanes to ensure that no commercial vessel would see and report the approaching Japanese fleet and thus ruin the "surprise" attack.

And you do understand, do you not, that the United States spent 5 billion dollars to overthrow the democratically elected government in the Ukraine (ultimately using neo-Nazi thugs to get the job done), and hand-picked the successor ....

Yes - we're definitely headed for nuclear war. Unless the American people finally wake up and rein in the out of control military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us against.

 

[Caretaker]

Vladimir Putin threatens Denmark, Norway and Poland with nuclear attack should they join NATO's ballistic missile defense initiative, (Assoc. Press, May 4, 2016). So far, since becoming president (dictator ?) of Russia, Vladimir Putin has explicitly threatened America, NATO, Turkey, the Baltic States, Denmark, Norway and Poland with nuclear annihilation in a number of public statements. In the beginning, politicians and analysts in the West attributed these remarks to Putin pandering to the Russian public and anti-western sentiments, but in light of the recent escalation of Russian military aggression towards Turkey, in the Black Sea and Baltic Sea against U.S. air and naval forces, experts have been forced to reevaluate their earlier assessment as to how much of a threat Vladimir Putin actually represents.

Apparently Putin doesn't think using nuclear weapons would violate international morale norms against such action. How long before this megalomaniac madman actually "pulls the trigger" ??? On the basis of his own statements, and the preparations he is making to "modernize" and "deploy" more intermediate range nuclear missiles, I say we won't have to wait long to find out. The date Vladimir Putin set in his July 2015 statement, was for Russian nuclear forces to be ready to fight a war against NATO (using nuclear weapons) by 2018.


That gives us about two and a half years, before Vladimir Putin says he will be ready to unleash nuclear annihilation on his enemies. No lack of clarity there, is there ?!

Ummm .... let me see, wasn't it President Kennedy who threatened Russia in the very same fashion when they planted missiles on our doorstep in Cuba? Soooo ... what makes our military leaders think Russia won't behave in the same fashion? Truth is, they are counting on it. America's preferred modus operandi is to badger, bait, and bully those they want to fight until they finally get the war they want.

 

[Rick Otto]

Ummm .... let me see, wasn't it President Kennedy who threatened Russia in the very same fashion when they planted missiles on our doorstep in Cuba? Soooo ... what makes our military leaders think Russia won't behave in the same fashion? Truth is, they are counting on it. America's preferred modus operandi is to badger, bait, and bully those they want to fight until they finally get the war they want.

Yes, of course, but one quibble... it isn't America that is the bully, it is the corporation named "THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" - all caps being corporate form, just like the trust formed with your name in all caps, on certified bond paper, at your birth.

 

[Rick Otto]

Vladimir Putin threatens Denmark, Norway and Poland with nuclear attack should they join NATO's ballistic missile defense initiative, (Assoc. Press, May 4, 2016). So far, since becoming president (dictator ?) of Russia, Vladimir Putin has explicitly threatened America, NATO, Turkey, the Baltic States, Denmark, Norway and Poland with nuclear annihilation in a number of public statements. In the beginning, politicians and analysts in the West attributed these remarks to Putin pandering to the Russian public and anti-western sentiments, but in light of the recent escalation of Russian military aggression towards Turkey, in the Black Sea and Baltic Sea against U.S. air and naval forces, experts have been forced to reevaluate their earlier assessment as to how much of a threat Vladimir Putin actually represents.

Apparently Putin doesn't think using nuclear weapons would violate international morale norms against such action. How long before this megalomaniac madman actually "pulls the trigger" ??? On the basis of his own statements, and the preparations he is making to "modernize" and "deploy" more intermediate range nuclear missiles, I say we won't have to wait long to find out. The date Vladimir Putin set in his July 2015 statement, was for Russian nuclear forces to be ready to fight a war against NATO (using nuclear weapons) by 2018.


That gives us about two and a half years, before Vladimir Putin says he will be ready to unleash nuclear annihilation on his enemies. No lack of clarity there, is there ?!

Let's also be clear how it wasn't Putin who overthrew Iran's first democratically elected government, or Panama's, or El Salvador,...
We have met the enemy... and it isn't Putin.

 

[stephen583]

Let's also be clear how it wasn't Putin who overthrew Iran's first democratically elected government, or Panama's, or El Salvador,...
We have met the enemy... and it isn't Putin.

In none of the U.S. backed coupes you mentioned were any nations threatened with nuclear annihilation. No nuclear forces were used in the overthrow of any of those governments. You are comparing apples to oranges. Putin has threatened to use thermo-nuclear weapons against nearly a dozen countries since becoming dictator of Russia.

 

[stephen583]

Ummm .... let me see, wasn't it President Kennedy who threatened Russia in the very same fashion when they planted missiles on our doorstep in Cuba? Soooo ... what makes our military leaders think Russia won't behave in the same fashion?

Your analogy of the Cuban Missile Crisis is completely ridiculous. The Soviet Union was deploying intermediate range nuclear ballistic missiles in Cuba. The U.S. is not deploying intermediate range ballistic missiles in Denmark, Norway or Poland. What is being proposed is a Ballistic Missile Defense System. You do understand the difference between an intermediate range nuclear missile, and a defensive missile designed to shoot down an ICBM, don't you ?! They are two completely different things. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Putin is threatening to use nuclear weapons against other countries to STOP the deployment of a MISSILE DEFENSE SYSTEM.

 

[Caretaker]

Your analogy of the Cuban Missile Crisis is completely ridiculous. The Soviet Union was deploying intermediate range nuclear ballistic missiles in Cuba. The U.S. is not deploying intermediate range ballistic missiles in Denmark, Norway or Poland. What is being proposed is a Ballistic Missile Defense System. You do understand the difference between an intermediate range nuclear missile, and a defensive missile designed to shoot down an ICBM, don't you ?! They are two completely different things. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Putin is threatening to use nuclear weapons against other countries to STOP the deployment of a MISSILE DEFENSE SYSTEM.

Ummmmm..... really??? The US is deploying an anti-missisle missile system in order to neutralize Russia's deterrent.

Are you seriously pretending to not understand what's going on???

To be a propagandist worth your salt you need to polish your approach.

 

[stephen583]

Ummmmm..... really??? The US is deploying an anti-missisle missile system in order to neutralize Russia's deterrent.

And why exactly does Russia need a nuclear deterrent against Norway, Poland or Denmark ??? None of those countries have any nuclear missiles that I am aware of. You seem to be the one who needs to work on his propaganda, not me.

 

[Rick Otto]

In none of the U.S. backed coupes you mentioned were any nations threatened with nuclear annihilation. No nuclear forces were used in the overthrow of any of those governments. You are comparing apples to oranges. Putin has threatened to use thermo-nuclear weapons against nearly a dozen countries since becoming dictator of Russia.

Oh, yeah? Just because you say so?
Go back in time and tell the victims of our coups that it is OK, because we won't nuke them.
I can't imagine a more lame justification.
It all sounds like shallow patriotism, not level headed reasoning.
It ignores all the criminality of the U.S. government.
It is the type of thinking I see in people who are horrified or hysterical at the suggestion of reparations for Native American genocide and race slavery. Forget Putin, save the world from the current U.S.A. government.

 

[Rick Otto]

And why exactly does Russia need a nuclear deterrent against Norway, Poland or Denmark ??? None of those countries have any nuclear missiles that I am aware of. You seem to be the one who needs to work on his propaganda, not me.

Your lack of awareness is not the standard of judgement they use.
You didn't know that?

 

[Caretaker]

In none of the U.S. backed coupes you mentioned were any nations threatened with nuclear annihilation. No nuclear forces were used in the overthrow of any of those governments. You are comparing apples to oranges. Putin has threatened to use thermo-nuclear weapons against nearly a dozen countries since becoming dictator of Russia.

Ummm .... why do you ONLY notice if/when Putin (according to you) "threatens" to use nuclear weapons (citations please)??

What about all the times Obama, Bush, other US presidents, Israel, etc. have threatened to use nuclear weapons? What about when the US DID use nuclear weapons - the ONLY country to have used nuclear weapons - and that use was when their use was completely unnecessary according to virtually all the top military leaders of the time?

We know why you're doing this - you imagine it "works" in terms of scaring the US populace. George W. Bush couldn't seem to get more than 50% in the polls in favor of the US invading Iraq until he claimed that the US faced a nuclear threat. So, if it worked with Iraq, the propagandists are sure it will work with Russia.

 

[Caretaker]

And why exactly does Russia need a nuclear deterrent against Norway, Poland or Denmark ??? None of those countries have any nuclear missiles that I am aware of. You seem to be the one who needs to work on his propaganda, not me.

Oh, please! You're going to have to get much better at your propaganda attempts! The nuclear deterrent the US is trying to neutralize is the Russian deterrent against nuclear aggression against Russia by the US.

You know that. You just imagine you can play the rest of the American populace for fools.

 

[stephen583]

The nuclear deterrent the US is trying to neutralize is the Russian deterrent against nuclear aggression against Russia by the US.

No. I think most Americans and everyone else for that matter realize Norway, Poland and Denmark (which are publicly being threatened by Russian nuclear aggression) HAVE NO U.S. NUCLEAR MISSILES BASED IN THEIR COUNTRIES. Lol.

So your assertion Russia needs a nuclear deterrent against these countries is complete NONSENSE. It goes beyond the realm of propaganda, into the realm of PURE FANTASY.

 

[stephen583]

So, if it worked with Iraq, the propagandists are sure it will work with Russia.

No one in the U.S. wants to attack Russia. No one in the U.S. is going to attack Russia, unless Putin makes good on his threat and actually does use nuclear weapons first. In that case, everyone will lose. Cities will be reduced to ashes, left uninhabitable for decades. Billions will die. Russia will most assuredly be wiped off the face of the Earth, along with the United States and probably every other country that has a nuclear arsenal. WELCOME TO THE APOCALYPSE.

 

[Caretaker]

No. I think most Americans and everyone else for that matter realize Norway, Poland and Denmark (which are publicly being threatened by Russian nuclear aggression) HAVE NO U.S. NUCLEAR MISSILES BASED IN THEIR COUNTRIES. Lol.

So your assertion Russia needs a nuclear deterrent against these countries is complete NONSENSE. It goes beyond the realm of propaganda, into the realm of PURE FANTASY.

OK, you're going to have to either stop playing games and deliberately distorting my posts or I will not dialogue with you.

Do you understand the basic concept of deterrence with regard to nuclear weapons? Are you not aware of the treaty that was in place for years that the US abandoned that prohibited countries from developing and deploying missiles capable of shooting down intercontinental ballistic missiles - the ones that carry nuclear warheads? That treaty was signed because the world recognized that the simple fact that each country could destroy the other many times over with nuclear warheads provided the reason why neither country would pull the trigger. Everyone recognized that if that status quo changed the world would become a much more dangerous place.

In the Cuban missile crisis, Khrushchev agreed to pull the Soviet Union's missiles out of Cuba in exchange for the US pulling our missiles out of Turkey. In short, we recognized the extreme world tension created when one major power places offensive weaponry on another major power's borders, and we recognized that if the balance of power was not maintained then the world would become very dangerous indeed.

Well, the US broke the anti-missile treaty, and we violated the tacit agreement to not place weapons on Russia's borders.

Does Russia have missiles on the US Canadian border? Does Russia have missiles on the US Mexican border? Of course not. Would we in the US be legitimately concerned if they did? Of course we would.

So, why are you advocating that the US continue threatening Russia by putting our weapons on their borders?

Your arguments are likely propaganda by the neocon military industrial complex intended to get us into the next great war.

Not good. Not good at all.

 

[Caretaker]

No one in the U.S. wants to attack Russia. No one in the U.S. is going to attack Russia, unless Putin makes good on his threat and actually does use nuclear weapons first. In that case, everyone will lose. Cities will be reduced to ashes, left uninhabitable for decades. Billions will die. Russia will most assuredly be wiped off the face of the Earth, along with the United States and probably every other country that has a nuclear arsenal. WELCOME TO THE APOCALYPSE.

Seriously???

OK, what if Russia overthrew the democratically elected government in Canada by spending $5 billion dollars on propaganda and neo-Nazi thugs who took over the government in a violent putsch. And what if Russia then handpicked the new president, and what if Russia's vice president's son put in a high position in charge of Canada's gas and oil reserves? And what if Prince Edward Island voted to leave the new Russian controlled Canada and join the US, and the US agreed, and Russia called that an invasion of Canada by the US?

All of the above, in reverse, is what the US did - and is doing - to Russia.

The days before the internet where propaganda like what you're pushing worked are gone.

 

[stephen583]

Well, the US broke the anti-missile treaty, and we violated the tacit agreement to not place weapons on Russia's borders.

Does Russia have missiles on the US Canadian border? Does Russia have missiles on the US Mexican border? Of course not. Would we in the US be legitimately concerned if they did? Of course we would.

I don't know where you get your information from (seems like a lot of it is just made up).. but all of America's intermediate range nuclear missiles were removed from Europe at the end of the Cold War erA in the 1990's. THERE ARE NO U.S. NUCLEAR MISSILES CURRENTLY ON RUSSIA'S BORDER !!! THERE ARE NO U.S. NUCLEAR MISSILES CURRENTLY IN TURKEY EITHER.

As for Cuba, if you don't think there are nuclear weapons there, you need to think again. You think the Soviets didn't leave some fissionable material there ??? If America can invade Panama and take out Noreiga, kill Kadaffi in Libya and capture Saddam Hussein in Iraq, and get Ben Ladin in Pakistan... Why hasn't America been able to do anything for the last forty years about a hostile Castro regime sitting 90 miles off the coast of Florida ??? Duuuh. Ya think maybe Castro doesn't have a nuke or two ?!

Why do think it's suddenly so important for the U.S. to normalize relations with Cuba after decades of hostility ?! Think it could have anything to do with having a nuclear capable hostile country 90 miles off the Florida coast while Putin is threatening to start a nuclear war ??? Time to wake up and smell the coffee dude and take a big swig of REALITY.

 

[LickedByaDog]

Hey this is good, fox news vs people with functioning brains.