Origin of God's Morality.

[civilwarbuff]

... while standing by with an eternal metaphorical flame-thrower pointed at my head should I choose wrongly (the inability to consciously choose what one believes notwithstanding).

No, he waits until the end giving you as many chances as possible to come to Him. But when at last you are before Him, unrepentant, He will cast you away because He cannot abide the presence of sin. While He does not use a flame thrower the locale will be pretty warm....

 

[Root of Jesse]

Assuming that your "God" exists for the moment:

If <looks in dictionary> morality is a particular system of values and principles of conduct held by a specified person or society, then your god's morality is simply the manner in which it interacts with others (us).

Well, since God is not a specified person or society, this doesn't work.

If there is no interaction, then there is no morality, and there is no need to treat your god as if it exists.

But you've already, at least some of you, agreed that everyone in the world knows, deep down, that he is absolutely obligated to be and do good. That's what morality is based on. The question is, where does this knowledge come from?

If it does [allegedly] interact, then we can compare that interaction to the societal norms that we have already established (it is okay to treat people as property, is it ethical for a judge to preside over their own interests, is it morally bankrupt to hold one responsible for things beyond one's control, etc).

If you meant something else by "morality", feel free to define it.

Obligation to be and do good.

 

[bhsmte]

Did you ask who created them?

They said they were eternal, no creation for them necessary. Pretty cool stuff.

 

[bhsmte]

I'm glad you made it back safely. There is nothing like getting information right from the source.

Life changing experience, i know it is the truth.

 

[civilwarbuff]

They said they were eternal, no creation for them necessary. Pretty cool stuff.

And atheists say we are delusional.....

 

[bhsmte]

And atheists say we are delusional.....

Prove me wrong.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Prove me wrong.

You made the claim, your job to prove it true.....I don't claim aliens exist, you do so produce your evidence.

 

[Davian]

No, he waits until the end giving you as many chances as possible to come to Him.

Why would I seek what appears to be, by every objective means to date, fictional?

But when at last you are before Him, unrepentant,

Of what wrongdoing do you allude to?

He will cast you away because He cannot abide the presence of sin.

In the absence of gods, there is no sin.

While He does not use a flame thrower the locale will be pretty warm....

Yes, such a loving god, sending those to that 'warm locale' for reasons beyond their control...

 

[civilwarbuff]

Why would I seek what appears to be, by every objective means to date, fictional?

Of what wrongdoing do you allude to?

In the absence of gods, there is no sin.

Yes, such a loving god, sending those to that 'warm locale' for reasons beyond their control...

I will wave to you over in the goat line........

 

[Davian]

I will wave to you over in the goat line........

Of what wrongdoing do you allude to?

 

[bhsmte]

You made the claim, your job to prove it true.....I don't claim aliens exist, you do so produce your evidence.

I know it is true. I have presented the same case for my claim, that you and jesse have.

And, you cant prove me wrong.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I know it is true. I have presented the same case for my claim, that you and jesse have.

And, you cant prove me wrong.

Your evidence is not good enuff, need evidence......

 

[bhsmte]

Your evidence is not good enuff, need evidence......

No matter what i present, it wont be good enough for you.

I know it to be true.

 

[Davian]

Well, since God is not a specified person or society, this doesn't work.

"When we commemorate a person, we commemorate the entire person, from his birth to his death. This entails his birthday and his deathday. God is pleased that we honor God, in the person of Jesus." - RoJ

But you've already, at least some of you, agreed that everyone in the world knows, deep down, that he is absolutely obligated to be and do good.

And I disagree with that statement specifically because of the "absolutely" descriptor. However, I might apply the the statement broadly across a population of social animals (including humans), particularly with groups in competition for common resources. The alternative may be extinction.

That's what morality is based on. The question is, where does this knowledge come from?

In evolutionary terms, I understand it to be an evolved trait, behaviour that emerges in a social, cooperative species.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_morality

Obligation to be and do good.

Great. Now all we need to do is establish a baseline for "good". Do you think it unethical for a judge to preside over their own interests? Is it morally bankrupt to hold one responsible for things beyond one's control?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Or, more accurately, in the absence of testable criteria, or a falsifiable hypothesis, there is no real means in which to evaluate this "evidence" in a constructive manner.

What do you mean by falsifiable and why does evidence need to be?

Except where RoJ quoted wiki.

I do not see where it was claimed that we can do more than speculate.

There are always audiobooks. If you are finding the science behind modern cosmology to be intimidating, I recommend "A Briefer History of Time" written by Stephen Hawking and narrated by Erik Davies. (note "Briefer" rather than the previous book's title of "Brief")

Stephen Hawking's worldwide best seller, A Brief History of Time, has been a landmark volume in scientific writing. Its author's engaging voice is one reason, and the compelling subjects he addresses is another: the nature of space and time, the role of God in creation, and the history and future of the universe. But it is also true that in the years since its publication, readers have repeatedly told Professor Hawking of their great difficulty in understanding some of the book's most important concepts. This is the origin of and the reason for A Briefer History of Time: its author's wish to make its content more accessible, as well as to bring it up-to-date with the latest scientific observations and findings.

Although this audiobook is literally somewhat "briefer", it actually expands on the great subjects of the original. Purely technical concepts, such as the mathematics of chaotic boundary conditions, are gone. Conversely, subjects of wide interest that were difficult to follow because they were interspersed throughout the production have now been given entire chapters of their own, including relativity, curved space, and quantum theory. This reorganization has allowed the authors to expand areas of special interest and recent progress, from the latest developments in string theory to exciting developments in the search for a complete, unified theory of all the forces of physics.
Like prior editions, but even more so, A Briefer History of Time will guide non-scientists everywhere in the ongoing search for the tantalizing secrets at the heart of time and space.

link

Hawking isn't always right. His problem is that he discounts God completely.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I am not the one claiming aomething exists, that would be you, so the burden is on you.

I am simply saying what you state on these boards does nothing to convince me you are correct, not even close.

And to ask someone else to prove a negative, when you cant meet your own burden, reeks of desperation.

Can you prove me wrong? I was abducted by aliens last night and they told me they created the universe.

Well, if I thought I had to convince you, we'd have to agree on some things first. Since you're unwilling to even discuss those things, I'll happily let you go on your merry way.

 

[bhsmte]

Well, if I thought I had to convince you, we'd have to agree on some things first. Since you're unwilling to even discuss those things, I'll happily let you go on your merry way.

I am open to any evidence you may have.

 

[Root of Jesse]

You invoke special pleading each time you declare your particular god except from the requirement you place on everything else (causality, design, etc).

I don't have any requirements on anything. That's where you're wrong. But everyone in the world knows, deep down, that he is absolutely obligated to be and do good. Wonder where that comes from???

... while standing by with an eternal metaphorical flame-thrower pointed at my head should I choose wrongly (the inability to consciously choose what one believes notwithstanding).

I don't do that. I could really care less whether you choose rightly or wrongly, unless it directly affects me. You're absolutely free to choose what you believe, too. That's called free will, and everyone has it.

Unless you meant something else by the word "love".

What do you believe is meant by the word "love"?

 

[civilwarbuff]

No matter what i present, it wont be good enough for you.

I know it to be true.

And that is why we can't have a conversation......

 

[Root of Jesse]

I am open to any evidence you may have.

Starting from the question " do you believe everyone in the world knows, deep down, that he is absolutely obligated to be and do good? Yes or no.