Understanding Dort

[Patmos]

The following is from The Canon of Dort.

FIRST HEAD OF DOCTRINE

Of Divine Predestination

Article 1

As all men have sinned in Adam, lie under the curse, and are deserving of eternal death, God would have done no injustice by leaving them all to perish, and delivering them over to condemnation on account of sin, according to the words of the apostle, “that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God” (Rom. 3:19). And verse 23: “For all have sinned, and come short (past tense) of the glory of God.” And Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death.”

“For all HAVE sinned”, in not denied – When did they do this though? Before the foundation of the world or after they left their mother’s womb and gained their own conscience?


Article 2

But in this the love of God was manifested, that He sent His only begotten Son into the world, that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. “In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him” (1 John 4:9). “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).

“Whosoever believe” – has different interpretations. Calvinists (Cs) in general maintain the ‘whosoever’ can only be an elected person. Non-Calvinists (NCs) go for 'all' meaning 'all'.

And "Everyone' is this everyone of the elect ? I do not see Calvinist agreeing to everyone, but I'll continue in numerical order

Article 3

And that men may be brought to believe, God mercifully sends the messengers of these most joyful tidings to whom He will and at what time He pleaseth; by whose ministry men are called to repentance and faith in Christ crucified. “How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent?” (Rom. 10:14–15).

Perhaps because of Rom 2:15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Also Paul speaking of the unknown God Act 17:23

Article 4

The wrath of God abideth upon those who believe not this gospel. But such as receive it, and embrace Jesus the Savior by a true and living faith, are by Him delivered from the wrath of God and from destruction, and have the gift of eternal life conferred upon them.

“receive it” – was this before the foundation of the world. As for those who believe not – why not ? Is it because they were made unable to not believe it by God ? See next article.

Article 5

The cause or guilt of this unbelief, as well as of all other sins, is no wise in God, but in man himself;

( seems that God did not pre-determine unbelief ! OK so far)

whereas faith in Jesus Christ and salvation through Him is the free gift of God, as it is written: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God” (Eph. 2:8). “For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him,” etc. (Phil. 1:29).

Or maybe God did pre-determine unbelief after all by pre-determining all to unbelief and later withholding a gift of belief. Getting a bit ambiguous. E.g if a man sees someone drowning and has access to a life belt. He gets hold of it and destroys it so the drowning man perishes. The first man is guilty of manslaughter and would receive a jail sentence.

 

[Patmos]

Article 6

That some receive the gift of faith from God and others do not receive it proceeds from God's eternal decree, for “known unto God are all His works from the beginning of the world” (Acts 15:18). “Who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will” (Eph. 1:11). According to which decree, He graciously softens the hearts of the elect, however obstinate, and inclines them to believe, while He leaves the non-elect in His just judgment to their own wickedness and obduracy. And herein is especially displayed the profound, the merciful, and at the same time the righteousdiscrimination between men, equally involved in ruin; or that decree of election and reprobation revealed in the Word of God, which though men of perverse, impure and unstable minds wrest to their own destruction, yet to holy and pious souls affords unspeakable consolation.

So the Canons hold to DOUBLE predestination – bizarrely post-modern Cs hold to SINGLE predestination –( Check any previous thread on CF)

Article 6 contradicts the first part of Article 5

Article 5 - "The cause or guilt of this unbelief, .. is no wise in God, but in man himself"

Article 6 - "That some do not receive it proceeds from God's eternal decree… of reprobation"


Article 7

Election is the unchangeable purpose of God, whereby, before the foundation of the world, He hath out of mere grace, according to the sovereign good pleasure of His own will, chosen, from the whole human race, which had fallen through their own fault from their primitive state of rectitude into sin and destruction, a certain number of persons to redemption in Christ, whom He from eternity appointed the Mediator and Head of the elect, and the foundation of salvation.

This elect number, though by nature neither better nor more deserving than others, but with them involved in one common misery, God hath decreed to give to Christ, to be saved by Him, and effectually to call and draw them to His communion by His Word and Spirit, to bestow upon them true faith, justification and sanctification; and having powerfully preserved them in the fellowship of His Son, finally, to glorify them for the demonstration of His mercy and for the praise of His glorious grace, as it is written: “According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in the beloved” (Eph. 1:4–6). And elsewhere: “Whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified them He also glorified” (Rom. 8:30).

“which had fallen through their own fault” – big subject in itself.

Were we there at the fall ?
What were you wearing?
what did you personally do?
How old are you now and when was your 200th birthday.
Perhaps you were there, died at say 80 and have now been reincarnated!

Or is it rather no you were not but you inherited the sin of Adam and Eve instead?
Seems Dort has a problem with OS - not me.


Why do the Canons miss Romans 8 29 ?

29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

OK lets forget the red bit as it give the Arminian an easy win BUT Is there anything here about pre-determination to life or death, salvation or reprobation ? Nope. What it actually say is a group – the red bit – is predestined to be conformed to the image of his son – it refers ONLY to saved people.

 

[Patmos]

Article 8

There are not various decrees of election, but one and the same decree respecting all those who shall be saved, both under the Old and New Testament; since the Scripture declares the good pleasure, purpose and counsel of the divine will to be one, according to which He hath chosen us from eternity, both to grace and glory, to salvation and the way of salvation, which He hath ordained that we should walk therein.

“There are not various decrees of election.”

Incorrect, we have just read of TWO different decrees.
A)Some to salvation and
B) the masses to reprobation – eternal hell.

Article 9

This election was not founded upon foreseen faith, and the obedience of faith, holiness, or any other good quality or disposition in man, as the prerequisite, cause or condition on which it depended; but men are chosen to faith and to the obedience of faith, holiness, etc.; therefore election is the fountain of every saving good, from which proceeds faith, holiness, and the other gifts of salvation, and finally eternal life itself, as its fruits and effects, according to that of the apostle: “He hath chosen us [not because we were but] that we should be holy, and without blame, before Him in love” (Eph. 1:4).

Romans 8:29 For those whom he foreknew Romans 8!


However – Foreseen faith, is this not just a different form of Pre determination by God. God set all the circumstances that man finds himself in – did he ask to inherit sin (although Article 7 does not recognise OS), So God could of pre-set different circumstances for a different outcome.

Jacob Arminius did not support foreseen faith, maybe his followers did after he had died or maybe this was a straw man setup by the judges at Dort (yes they were judges).
[/QUOTE]

 

[Patmos]

Article 10

The good pleasure of God is the sole cause of this gracious election, which doth not consist herein, that out of all possible qualities and actions of men God has chosen some as a condition of salvation; but that He was pleased out of the common mass of sinners to adopt some certain persons as a peculiar people to Himself, as it is written, “For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil,” etc., it was said (namely to Rebecca): “The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated” (Rom. 9:11-13). “And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed” (Acts 13:48).

And Josephs brothers, not to forget Pharaoh. This is design a dogma and cherry pick one's proof text while applying blinkers to everything else.


Article 11

And as God Himself is most wise, unchangeable, omniscient and omnipotent, so the election made by Him can neither be interrupted nor changed, recalled or annulled; neither can the elect be cast away, nor their number diminished.

And given that all this was pre-determined prior to the foundation of the world, a point that has been made thousands of times - "what is the point of intercessory prayer?". It cannot change anything.


To be continued.

For many people – Lutherans, Orthodox, Catholics, The majority of Protestants, even some types of Calvinism - the Canons lose any coherency at:

Article 5 - "The cause or guilt of this unbelief, .. is no wise in God, but in man himself"

But no, instead:

Article 6 - "That some do not receive it proceeds from God's eternal decree… of reprobation"

So, which is it ?

( Later on The Canons mention “Author of sin” which I hope to get to soon)[/QUOTE]

 

[Patmos]

Article 12

The elect in due time, though in various degrees and in different measures, attain the assurance of this their eternal and unchangeable election, not by inquisitively prying into the secret and deep things of God, but by observing in themselves, with a spiritual joy and holy pleasure, the infallible fruits of election pointed out in the Word of God — such as a true faith in Christ, filial fear, a godly sorrow for sin, a hungering and thirsting after righteousness, etc.


Article 13

The sense and certainty of this election afford to the children of God additional matter for daily humiliation before Him, for adoring the depth of His mercies, for cleansing themselves, and rendering grateful returns of ardent love to Him, who first manifested so great love towards them. The consideration of this doctrine of election is so far from encouraging remissness in the observance of the divine commands or from sinking men in carnal security, that these, in the just judgment of God, are the usual effects of rash presumption or of idle and wanton trifling with the grace of election in those who refuse to walk in the ways of the elect.

Refuse to walk! How can this be possible with irresistible Grace ?

Those who refuse to walk in the way of the elect must be the ‘elect’ themselves per Article 6“Who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will” (Eph. 1:11). According to which decree, He graciously softens the hearts of the elect, however obstinate, and inclines them to believe,”

Are we to understand that God causes his elect to reject ?

 

[Patmos]

Article 14

As the doctrine of divine election by the most wise counsel of God was declared by the prophets, by Christ Himself, and by the apostles, and is clearly revealed in the Scriptures, both of the Old and New Testament, so it is still to be published in due time and place in the Church of God, for which it was peculiarly designed, provided it be done with reverence, in the spirit of discretion and piety, for the glory of God's most holy Name, and for enlivening and comforting His people, without vainly attempting to investigate the secret ways of the Most High. “For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God” (Acts 20:27); “O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been His counsellor?” (Rom. 11:33–34); “For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith”(Rom. 12:3); “Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutabilityof His counsel, confirmed it by an oath: that by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us” (Heb. 6:17–18).

“according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith” (Rom. 12:3)”

If ‘divine election’ is that God has chosen only certain individuals to be saved mankind is made incapable of responding to God's grace per article 6 (first sentence). Then how are we to reconcile John 3:16, Acts 17:30, 1 Tim. 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, Rev. 22:17. How can God say to the lost, "whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely," and then hold the water of life out of reach from the majority of mankind?


Gen 4:6-7
6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?


Immutability


1 Sam 10:23-24
23 And they ran and fetched him thence: and when he stood among the people, he was higher than any of the people from his shoulders and upward.
24 And Samuel said to all the people, See ye him whom the LORD hath chosen, that there is none like him among all the people? And all the people shouted, and said, God save the king.
(KJV)

Even after God's election of Saul to be king of Israel, God later rejected him.

1 Sam 15:23
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.


Even after being "elect" of God, Peter indicated that it is our responsibility and within our power to make our "calling" and "election" sure. This is utterly impossible in Dort/Calvinism.

2 Pet 1:10
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
(KJV)


Fig tree and being grafted in is also a good study![

 

[Patmos]

Article 15

What peculiarly tends to illustrate and recommend to us the eternal and unmerited grace of election, is the express testimony of sacred Scripture that not all, but some only are elected, while others are passed by in the eternal decree; whom God, out of His sovereign, most just, irreprehensible and unchangeable good pleasure, hath decreed to leave in the common misery into which they have wilfully plunged themselves, and not to bestow upon them saving faith and the grace of conversion; but permitting them in His just judgment to follow their own ways, at last for the declaration of His justice, to condemn and perish them forever, not only on account of their unbelief, but also for all their other sins. And this is the decree of reprobation which by no means makes God the author of sin (the very thought of which is blasphemy), but declares Him to be an awful, irreprehensible, and righteous Judge and avenger thereof.

“not all, but some only are elected” –
Contradicts Article 14 “according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith” (Rom. 12:3”
Contradicts - John 3:16, Acts 17:30, 1 Tim. 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, Rev. 22:17

“which by no means makes God the author of sin”

Born through your own fault? “For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil" yet before the foundation of the world God's eternal decree reprobated them. Articles 6 and 7).

The T in TULIP – Total depravity renders the child being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil totally unable to respond to the Gospel as decreed by God before the foundation of the worls.

Article 6 "That some receive the gift of faith from God and others do not receive it proceeds from God's eternal decree"

Article 7 "before the foundation of the world, He hath out of mere grace, according to the sovereign good pleasure of His own will, chosen, from the whole human race, which had fallen through their own fault"

 

[Patmos]

Article 16

Those who do not yet experience a lively faith in Christ, an assured confidence of soul, peace of conscience, an earnest endeavor after filial obedience, and glorying in God through Christ, efficaciously wrought in them, and do nevertheless persist in the use of the means which God hath appointed for working these graces in us, ought not to be alarmed at the mention of reprobation, nor to rank themselves among the reprobate, but diligently to persevere in the use of means, and with ardent desires devoutly and humbly to wait for a season of richer grace. Much less cause have they to be terrified by the doctrine of reprobation, who, though they seriously desire to be turned to God, to please Him only, and to be delivered from the body of death, cannot yet reach that measure of holiness and faith to which they aspire; since a merciful God has promised that He will not quench the smoking flax nor break the bruised reed. But this doctrine is justly terrible to those, who, regardless of God and of the Savior Jesus Christ, have wholly given themselves up to the cares of the world and the pleasures of the flesh, so long as they are not seriously converted to God.

If predestination, single or double, as the post modern Calvinist expounds, the how can anyone give themselves up ?


“ought not to be alarmed at the mention of reprobation, nor to rank themselves among the reprobate”
View attachment 173886

 

[Patmos]

Article 17

Since we are to judge of the will of God from His Word which testifies that the children of believers are holy, not by nature, but in virtue of the covenant of grace, in which they, together with the parents, are comprehended, godly parents have no reason to doubt of the election and salvation of their children whom it pleaseth God to call out of this life in their infancy.

So some kids get a free pass and can go astray as they please. And there is much evidence that kids do backslide.

 

[Patmos]

Article 18


To those who murmur at the free grace of election and just severity of reprobation, we answer with the apostle: “Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?” (Rom. 9:20), and quote the language of our Savior: “Is it not lawful for Me to do what I will with Mine own?” (Matt. 20:15). And therefore with holy adoration of these mysteries, we exclaim in the words of the apostle: “O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been His counsellor? Or who hath first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen” (Rom. 11:33–36).

For who hath known the mind of the Lord?

The Synod of Dort has several contradictions as shown previously!
The Canons are at odds with John 3:16, Acts 17:30, 1 Tim. 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, Rev. 22:17 and many more!

 

[Patmos]

Any one want to comment ?
Blind spots, misunderstandings etc

 

[Rick Otto]

“For all HAVE sinned”, in not denied – When did they do this though? Before the foundation of the world or after they left their mother’s womb and gained their own conscience?"
God "foreknew" they would because he knew everything to be known about everything before he created anything, but nobody sins until they do.

 

[Rick Otto]

“Whosoever believe” – has different interpretations. Calvinists (Cs) in general maintain the ‘whosoever’ can only be an elected person. Non-Calvinists (NCs) go for 'all' meaning 'all'.

And "Everyone' is this everyone of the elect ? I do not see Calvinist agreeing to everyone, but I'll continue."

"Whosoever" and "all mankind" do not here mean what they ordinarily would without context, or in the broadest possible context.
It was written in the context of the then current mindset, that "salvation is of Israel" (for Jews only) so in that context, it only means "not just Jews". It was not intended to mean everyone will "go to heaven", which is a core meaning in the concept of "salvation".

 

[Rick Otto]

!Perhaps because of Rom 2:15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Also Paul speaking of the unknown God Act 17:23"

Yes! Very interesting and important point.
One supporting scripture for this I believe, is psalm 19:


[1] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
[2] Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
[3] There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
[4] Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

 

[Radagast]

“For all HAVE sinned”

This speaks of "original sin."

whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).

“Whosoever believe” – has different interpretations. Calvinists (Cs) in general maintain the ‘whosoever’ can only be an elected person. Non-Calvinists (NCs) go for 'all' meaning 'all'.

Both sides agree that every single person who believes will have everlasting life.

... but I'm not seeing the point in this lengthy and biased commentary on the Canons of Dort.

 

[Patmos]

This speaks of "original sin."

For all have originally sinned ?

 

[Rick Otto]

For all have originally sinned ?

No, Adam did, we suffer the consequences.
God did not guarantee life would be fair.

 

[Patmos]

No, Adam did, we suffer the consequences.
God did not guarantee life would be fair.

I know. It was a question to Radagast. Not a statement.