Origin of God's Morality.

[Archaeopteryx]

The voice of God in the soul.

That presumes the very conclusion in question, and would thus seem to be a form of begging the question. What indicates that conscience is "the voice of God in the soul"?

 

[bhsmte]

There's really no such thing as objective evidence. This is proven by the arguments for and against anthropomorphic global warming.But we do have evidence. I've shown where you don't just say that anything is random, which says that everything is designed, and yet you throw up your hands and say the universe is random? Oh, I do understand that maybe you don't thing God is a white-haired bearded guy in the sky, but while that may be his depiction in art, that's not what He is. I really don't care what you call him.

I do believe we have evidence, you just disagree. Shrug.

If you are admitted to the hospital and many diagnostic tests are run, are the results of these tests not objective evidence?

Back to your claim you have evidence that points to god as the designer. Can you present that evidence please, that only points to a god?

 

[Root of Jesse]

You need to support this assertion and, again, note the false dichotomy (design vs randomness).

I asked you what would be your assumption if you found SOS written on a beach. You admitted it wasn't random. Above, I wrote about Hamlet. If you came upon a type-written Hamlet, you would not assume it was randomly written randomly. When you study a plant, you can see that everything about it is planned, not random. It has systems of fluid movement, nutrient distribution, and so on. You can look at our solar system and see that it's not random. So why would you say that the universe is random? And if it's not random, what is it? Planned. Designed.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

But we do have evidence. I've shown where you don't just say that anything is random, which says that everything is designed,

This is a false dichotomy (design vs randomness).

and yet you throw up your hands and say the universe is random?

No. This a strawman. I say that I don't know what processes result in the formation of universes. I don't say "the universe is random." Consider the orbits of the planets as an example. I don't think they were designed. But that doesn't mean I think they are random either. Rather, those orbits formed through processes that we can understand through celestial mechanics. Those processes aren't entirely random.

 

[Root of Jesse]

If you are admitted to the hospital and many diagnostic tests are run, are the results of these tests not objective evidence?

The results are the results. Data. Evidence is interpretation of data. That comes from knowledge and experience.

Back to your claim you have evidence that points to god as the designer. Can you present that evidence please, that only points to a god?

And I also said I don't care what you call him, the designer is what we call God. It points to a designer.

 

[civilwarbuff]

none

That is incorrect. If you don't know, you formulate a hypothosis and test it. Make adjustments, test it again.....and so on.

 

[Root of Jesse]

This is a false dichotomy (design vs randomness).

No. This a strawman. I say that I don't know what processes result in the formation of universes. I don't say "the universe is random." Consider the orbits of the planets as an example. I don't think they were designed. But that doesn't mean I think they are random either. Rather, those orbits formed through processes that we can understand through celestial mechanics. Those processes aren't entirely random.

Ok, if it's not random, then how would you describe it? If it's not random, what would you call it?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I asked you what would be your assumption if you found SOS written on a beach. You admitted it wasn't random. Above, I wrote about Hamlet. If you came upon a type-written Hamlet, you would not assume it was randomly written randomly. When you study a plant, you can see that everything about it is planned, not random. It has systems of fluid movement, nutrient distribution, and so on. You can look at our solar system and see that it's not random. So why would you say that the universe is random? And if it's not random, what is it? Planned. Designed.

You are, either knowingly or unknowingly, conflating structure and complexity with design. Structure doesn't entail design.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Ok, if it's not random, then how would you describe it? If it's not random, what would you call it?

In the case of orbits, it's celestial mechanics, which is governed by principles that we can understand and apply. It's systematic.

 

[civilwarbuff]

You need to support this assertion and, again, note the false dichotomy (design vs randomness).

What other choices besides design and randomess is there?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

What other choices besides design and randomess is there?

Natural processes?

 

[civilwarbuff]

In the case of orbits, it's celestial mechanics, which is governed by principles that we can understand and apply. It's systematic.

sys·tem·at·ic

ˌsistəˈmadik/

adjective

done or acting according to a fixed plan or system; methodical.

"a systematic search of the whole city"

synonyms:structured, methodical, organized, orderly, planned, systematized, regular, routine, standardized, standard;More

 

[Archaeopteryx]

sys·tem·at·ic

ˌsistəˈmadik/

adjective

done or acting according to a fixed plan or system; methodical.

"a systematic search of the whole city"

synonyms:structured, methodical, organized, orderly, planned, systematized, regular, routine, standardized, standard;More

The appropriate synonym in this case is "structured" and "organised," not in the sense of being "planned."

 

[civilwarbuff]

You are, either knowingly or unknowingly, conflating structure and complexity with design. Structure doesn't entail design.

struc·ture

ˈstrək(t)SHər/

noun

1.

the arrangement of and relations between the parts or elements of something complex.

"flint is extremely hard, like diamond, which has a similar structure"

synonyms:construction, form, formation, shape, composition, anatomy, makeup, constitution; More

verb

1.

construct or arrange according to a plan; give a pattern or organization to.

"the game is structured so that there are five ways to win"

synonyms:arrange, organize, design, shape, construct, build, put together

"the program is structured around periods of home study"

 

[civilwarbuff]

The appropriate synonym in this case is "structured" and "organised," not in the sense of being "planned."

We can't help it if you don't understand what the words you use mean.......

 

[Archaeopteryx]

We can't help it if you don't understand what the words you use mean.......

You do understand that words have multiple meanings, right?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Apparently I'm dealing with someone who doesn't understand that words have multiple meanings. No wonder his contributions are so meagre... He's restricted his vocabulary to monosemic words.

 

[bhsmte]

The results are the results. Data. Evidence is interpretation of data. That comes from knowledge and experience.And I also said I don't care what you call him, the designer is what we call God. It points to a designer.

Cool.

Do you have evidence that points directly to a god, as you claim?

If so, please present it.

 

[bhsmte]

That is incorrect. If you don't know, you formulate a hypothosis and test it. Make adjustments, test it again.....and so on.

Which post are you quoting here?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

sys·tem·at·ic

ˌsistəˈmadik/

adjective

done or acting according to a fixed plan or system; methodical.

"a systematic search of the whole city"

synonyms:structured, methodical, organized, orderly, planned, systematized, regular, routine, standardized, standard;More

Here is the definition for "systematic" given in the Merriam-Webster dictionary:

1: relating to or consisting of a system
2: presented or formulated as a coherent body of ideas or principles <systematic thought>
3
a : methodical in procedure or plan <a systematic approach> <a systematic scholar>
b : marked by thoroughness and regularity <systematic efforts>
4: of, relating to, or concerned with classification; specifically

Note also the definition of "system" given:

1: a regularly interacting or interdependent group of items forming a unified whole <a number system>: as
a (1) : a group of interacting bodies under the influence of related forces <a gravitational system> (2) : an assemblage of substances that is in or tends to equilibrium <a thermodynamic system>
b (1) : a group of body organs that together perform one or more vital functions <the digestive system> (2) : the body considered as a functional unit
c : a group of related natural objects or forces <a river system>
d : a group of devices or artificial objects or an organization forming a network especially for distributing something or serving a common purpose <a telephone system> <a heatingsystem> <a highway system> <a computer system>
e : a major division of rocks usually larger than a series and including all formed during a period or era
f : a form of social, economic, or political organization or practice <the capitalist system>
2: an organized set of doctrines, ideas, or principles usually intended to explain the arrangement or working of a systematic whole <the Newtonian system of mechanics>
3
a : an organized or established procedure <the touch system of typing>
b : a manner of classifying, symbolizing, or schematizing <a taxonomic system> <the decimal system>
4: harmonious arrangement or pattern : order <bring system out of confusion — Ellen Glasgow>
5: an organized society or social situation regarded as stultifying or oppressive : establishment 2 —usually used with the