What is the greatest evidence against the theory of evolution...?

[juvenissun]

How about smart apes then?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cabulary-My-lunch-worlds-cleverest-chimp.html

Where does the match come from? Can this dumb thing still do it without the match?

 

[46AND2]

Where does the match come from? Can this dumb thing still do it without the match?

Can you? How would you start a fire in the wilderness without technology which was provided for you?

 

[Herman Hedning]

Where does the match come from? Can this dumb thing still do it without the match?

Can you?

 

[Loudmouth]

Where does the match come from? Can this dumb thing still do it without the match?

Who cares if it is dumb? How is that relevant?

 

[juvenissun]

Can you? How would you start a fire in the wilderness without technology which was provided for you?

You bet I can.
And I think most human can.

 

[juvenissun]

Can you?

In fact, I show that to students whenever I teach them what is a flint.
Can a dumb chimp identify a flint-like material?

 

[Loudmouth]

In fact, I show that to students whenever I teach them what is a flint.
Can a dumb chimp identify a flint-like material?

What if they can't identify flint? How is that relevant?

 

[Shemjaza]

Where is the technology of any non-human primate? You tell me one and I will shut up.

Could the Homo Naledi use fire?
If they could, then they are as intelligent as we are.
If not, then they are a kind of dumb monkey.

More weird make believe.

Humans clearly have a variety of intelligence levels; animals clearly have a variety of intelligence; our extinct relatives had some level of tool use.

 

[AV1611VET]

You don't need intelligence to start a fire: that's why we have arsonists.

 

[juvenissun]

A skill called technology should include at least a sequence of break-down processes. A one-step process in using material can be observed on the behavior of many animals. And more importantly, there is no development of any consequential process (i.e. no improvement). This should be a characteristic symptom of low intelligence.

A question about the image you attached: Obviously not all chimps in the wild do this. Why not?

 

[Shemjaza]

A skill called technology should include at least a sequence of break-down processes. A one-step process in using material can be observed on the behavior of many animals. And more importantly, there is no development of any consequential process (i.e. no improvement). This should be a characteristic symptom of low intelligence.

Smarter animals can understand more complicated systems. Humans are smarter again.

How long was the wooden spear and stone hand axe the pinnacle of human technology?

A question about the image you attached: Obviously not all chimps in the wild do this. Why not?

It's a learned task and not all chimps learn or understand. Not all chimps need it.

 

[Herman Hedning]

In fact, I show that to students whenever I teach them what is a flint.
Can a dumb chimp identify a flint-like material?

Fantastic! So, your students need to be shown how to light a fire with flint and a striker. What makes you think a "dumb chimp" could not be taught the same thing?

 

[juvenissun]

Smarter animals can understand more complicated systems. Humans are smarter again.
How long was the wooden spear and stone hand axe the pinnacle of human technology?
It's a learned task and not all chimps learn or understand. Not all chimps need it.

To our time scale, it may be long. But to the time scale of evolution, it is almost like a blink of eyes.

It would be interesting to know the detail history of primitive tool improvement done by human. That would be a fascinating show of human intelligence. In the iron age, how did people turn the use of cast iron into the use of steel? How long was the time period? May be something like 2500 years?

Yes, you mentioned an important character of real intelligence: the improvement of tools. This is completely absent in the animal kingdom in the past 4 billion years.

 

[juvenissun]

Fantastic! So, your students need to be shown how to light a fire with flint and a striker. What makes you think a "dumb chimp" could not be taught the same thing?

They could be taught by human, but not by another chimp. Even a fish can be taught to do tricks.
That is why I said that they can learn, but can not teach. And that is fatal due to the dumbness.

 

[Herman Hedning]

They could be taught by human, but not by another chimp. Even a fish can be taught to do tricks.
That is why I said that they can learn, but can not teach. And that is fatal due to the dumbness.

If you read the article the image came from, you'd see that this chimp did not learn his skills from humans, but from other chimps. And that other chimps in the same group are learning from him.

 

[46AND2]

You bet I can.
And I think most human can.

I bet most humans can't. The fact that you think they can tells me that you believe it is much easier than it is; which also tells me that you haven't actually ever done it before.

 

[46AND2]

They could be taught by human, but not by another chimp. Even a fish can be taught to do tricks.
That is why I said that they can learn, but can not teach. And that is fatal due to the dumbness.

But this is demonstrably not true. They can, and do, teach the things to other chimps which we taught to them. There was an example posted in this very thread of it happening...sign language.

 

[Jimmy D]

They could be taught by human, but not by another chimp. Even a fish can be taught to do tricks.
That is why I said that they can learn, but can not teach. And that is fatal due to the dumbness.

Most of the intelligence being discussed is based on accumulated knowledge that has been passed down. If you'd been brought up by apes I expect you'd be poking in holes with a stick to get at grubs rather than lighting fires.... Juvie of the Apes.

 

[juvenissun]

If you read the article the image came from, you'd see that this chimp did not learn his skills from humans, but from other chimps. And that other chimps in the same group are learning from him.

You mean the ant eating? Yes, I can believe that.
Animals learned how to gather food from their parents.

 

[juvenissun]

I bet most humans can't. The fact that you think they can tells me that you believe it is much easier than it is; which also tells me that you haven't actually ever done it before.

I did not say easy. Any human, when desperate and have enough time, can learn how to raise fire by flint.